La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand)

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La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/24/2024 4:16:03 AM

thomasjacques

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The producer's name is indeed "La Maison de Rose", and the winemaker's name "Dominique Grand" is also printed on labels. I suggest renaming to "La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand)".
Wines have been mistakenly added with "La Maison de Rose" in Designation.
Thanks !

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/26/2024 10:29:43 AM

andrew

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I am confused here. The back labels do say Dominque Grand as the producer. I also can't find any duplicate or misplaced entries.

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/27/2024 12:17:47 PM

thomasjacques

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See their website : https://lamaisonderose-vinbio.fr/
The domaine's name is La Maison de Rose. Winemakers are Dominique and his son Désiré Grand.

Currently in the CT database, producer's name is Dominique Grand which is inaccurate. I could live with it, but "La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand)" would be better, and also more consistent with other producers that use both an estate name and their own name (eg : https://www.cellartracker.com/producer.asp?iProducer=35445).

More confusing, most wines (eg this one : https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=4705339) have an incorrect Designation, mistakenly including "La Maison de Rose" in addition to the actual designation.

Thanks !

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/27/2024 4:40:21 PM

andrew

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Here is my issue : https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/44b394f0-3b46-4bb9-a19b-205a5e7c536d.jpg

The back label which is going to be legally correct uses Dominique Grand. I have a mild anti-preference for hybrid producer names (it ends up duping and being confusing.)

I need to see if I can get more info like if they've legally renamed. I tend to be conservative here because these entries have been fairly stable.

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/28/2024 12:12:56 PM

thomasjacques

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I hear you and I am not a fan of "hybrid" producer names either.
I looked up the french "Registry of Commerce", and I could not find a company incorporated under that name in the Jura department (postcode 39*). On the other hand, Mr. Dominique Grand is indeed registered as an "Individual entrepreneur" (sources : here and here). So apparently "La Maison de Rose" is a brand name for the domaine, not a legal company name.

Now generally speaking, should legal entity names be your north star for the Producer field ? Here is an interesting case, also of a producer that is more significant to the community (3800 bottles in Cellars vs 20) : Domaine du Coulet (Matthieu Barret).
Looking again at the "Registry of Commerce" I can see 3 legal entities :
- Monsieur Matthieu Barret - registered "individual entrepreneur" - in the business of growing fruit and making wine
- Matthieu Barret SARL - commercial entity - in the business of selling wine (both negoce and domaine wines, since you get only one invoice when you go and buy both)
- GFA du Domaine du Coulet - "groupement foncier agricole" - in the business of owning and renting land (presumably to Monsieur Matthieu Barret)

So which entity should count as the Producer ? The one owning the land, the one making the wine or the one selling it ?

In my opinion, the pragmatic choice for CT is to use whatever name the producers themselves want to be called. In the case of La Maison de Rose, it's quite clear they use both the winemaker's name and this brand name they have come up with.

Only my 2 cents obviously. If you decide to stick to "Dominique Grand", can you please at least remove "La Maison de Rose" from the Designations ?

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/28/2024 2:39:19 PM

andrew

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thomasjacques
If you decide to stick to "Dominique Grand", can you please at least remove "La Maison de Rose" from the Designations ?

This part confuses me - La Maison de Rose is prominent on the label and, as you mention, the brand name used. What is the logic to remove it? That would be more confusing.

In general, the legal name is the north star (I didn't think anyone used that expression!) That said, if the predominant name on the label or common usage is something else, I will use that. Alot of Bordeaux is like that in that the legal entities are often some larger company. Or like your example, we will compress the negociant and domaine operations that have to be two legal entities (speaking France here - it is different elsewhere) when it gets confusing.

I will like at Mathieu Barret. I fixed those a while ago (I do love the wines!) and it might have crept back.

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/29/2024 2:13:13 AM

thomasjacques

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quote:

ORIGINAL: andrew
the legal name is the north star (I didn't think anyone used that expression!)

Yeah I can't remember where I caught that one - is it inappropriate ? English is not my mothertongue so language registers are always a challenge...

quote:

ORIGINAL: andrew
That said, if the predominant name on the label or common usage is something else, I will use that.

Well I think this is precisely the case : it's predominant on the (front) label and used literally everywhere : producer's website (including URL !), Comité Interprofessionnel des Vins du Jura, Google Maps, Facebook page, authoritative wine guides RVF and Hachette, wine stores.
In all those places, the domaine is referred to as La Maison de Rose, not the wines themselves, which have names of their own.

< Message edited by thomasjacques -- 3/29/2024 2:58:22 AM >

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RE: La Maison de Rose (Dominique Grand) - 3/29/2024 4:09:39 AM

Paul852

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thomasjacques

quote:

ORIGINAL: andrew
the legal name is the north star (I didn't think anyone used that expression!)

Yeah I can't remember where I caught that one - is it inappropriate ? English is not my mothertongue so language registers are always a challenge...

It's more or less appropriate. In my version of slightly old-fashioned British English "lode star" might be slightly less uncommon, but they mean the same thing.

(in reply to thomasjacques)

Post #: 8