RE: Old World or New World?

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RE: Old World or New World? - 3/5/2010 10:27:51 AM

TexasWineGeek

Posts: 1568
Joined: 8/18/2009
From: Mclean, Virginia and Cascais, Portugal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: profiler54

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Much prefer old world styled wines. I'm a Bordeaux guy, but I enjoy other areas besides just that. Like others have said, something different is good at times.

What I don't want is for Bordeaux to go the way of California with 14%+ alcohol fruit bombs. The 2009 vintage has me worried.

That's my fear too... and with global warming, bordeaux seems to be getting riper...and thus more alcoholic... wondering about alcohol levels with the much anticipated 2009 Bordeaux vintage..

GLOBAL WARMING...Oh please...don't get me started

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Post #: 31

RE: Old World or New World? - 3/5/2010 11:02:07 AM

Khamen

Posts: 5543
Joined: 3/31/2009
From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline

You're bound to get some monster 2009s, probably from the right bank, but my understanding it was a moderate vintage made good by ideal conditions leading up to harvest.

That would lead me to hope for balanced wines of moderate alcohol levels.

Having said that I don't anticipate to be able to afford any of it so it's largely irrelevant, and I'll continue hoovering up 2001 and 2004s, along with the few scarce but undisputed left bank bargains (in recent terms!) from 2000.

K

(in reply to TexasWineGeek)

Post #: 32

RE: Old World or New World? - 3/5/2010 11:14:05 AM

masi3v

Posts: 264
Joined: 8/1/2008
From: Philadelphia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PMDias

quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins

Actually, I should state that I've just decanted a bottle for tonight, and it's one of the 3.37% - 1996 Dominus. Along with Monte Bello, consistently my favourite Californian.

I'd be quite interested in any Californian Pinots that people could suggest might appeal to a traditional Burgundy lover. I've tried occasional bottles of things like Sea Smoke and Marcassin without really being convinced.

Bryan,
I've yet to taste a Burgundian CA Pinot. You'll have to go north to Oregon for that--even still that is a minor subset. Burgundy is truly a unique region...If I end up seeing any of you in England when I am there in April, I'll see if I can bring over some OR Pinot you'd likely not find across the pond.
Craig

Recently picked up a case of the '01 Anderson's Conn Valley Pinot for a song, and was surprised by how layered, understated and yet intense it was - all qualities I associate with Burgundy. Yet it still had a flavor profile that I wouldn't call typically Burgundian, even if it might fall within a broader compass. Still, I suspect you might enjoy it.

Mind you, it's the only vintage I've tasted.

As for my own tastes... Being a snob, I like to think I'm an Old World guy, and that's most of what I own. Having said that, it's (maybe not so) surprising how often I find myself really enjoying Old World bottles that are supposed to be in a New World style.

I would also throw in Skewis into this category. Not big fruit bombs, tries to have a sense of place. I also like Wes Hagen's Clos Pepe wines. Hard to find, but very interesting. Also interesting to compare Hagen's Clos Pepe's to others who purchase fruit from him (e.g., Siduri, Loring, Ken Brown, Brewer-Clifton, etc.). Same fruit source (more or less) but very different styles.

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Post #: 33

RE: Old World or New World? - 3/5/2010 11:26:49 AM

LionGaucho

Posts: 220
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Does everyone accept the definition "Old World = Europe" & "New World = everywhere else"?

I think the line continues to increasingly blur. From my experience, there's really not much susbstitute for Burgundy, Loire, or Champagne. Italian varietals and winemaking are also certainly distinguished, but there are an increasing number of California producers coming very close to those profiles, too. And with all of the excellent Bordeaux blends coming from Southern Hemi and USA, I don't think the Bordeauxlytes can claim any supremacy since "Judgement of Paris". When it comes to style, I keep hearing about European wines made in a New World style and vice versa - New World territory producing OW style .

So is it geography or performance? I often think the snob says, "If I like it, it's Old World. If I don't, it's New World" regardless of where it's from.

Nice post, especially the last line. I'm tending to find the more traditional or restrained New World producers and the more modern Old World producers meet in the middle. This is the information age and all of the techniques and methodologies are known by all. I do think there are big differences in the fruit itself from say California to traditional French regions like Burgundy. Aside from younger vine age, there is no rain during the growing season, irrigation is often necessary, minimally irrigated vines tend towards low yields, there's a large diurnal flux, grape clusters need a good canopy and vines are widely spaced in California. For Burgundy, take everything above, and make it the opposite. Dry farmed, closely spaced vines, no canopy, large yields without dropping fruit, etc., etc.

So I tend to think there are certain terroir differences that are accentuated when the winemaking is done in a transparent manner. I actually think there is great potential to apply a true Bordeaux or Burgundian style in California, but consumers here generally want wines that drink well young. There is no motivation to make a wine that ignorant consumers will shun because of its massive, age-worthy structure.

That said, for now, I tend to find these modern Old Worlds and traditional New Worlds right up my alley. If you can find Cali winemakers who came from the Tchelistcheff school prior to the "we need 28 Brix for phenolic ripeness" movement, these are real wines, different but of comparably quality to the Old World. Conversely, scientific knowledge has advanced greatly and knowing how to get ripe, concentrated fruit in cool rainy climates has probably evened out vintage variation in the Old World. There are still issues with misapplication of oak and excessive ripeness, but modernity is not all bad.

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Post #: 34

RE: Old World or New World? - 3/5/2010 11:37:45 AM

LionGaucho

Posts: 220
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scoperta Importing

I was raised on new-world wines, and every once in a while if I'm exhausted or stressed out I like to come home and bust open a fruit bomb to drink by itself as "comfort food". But my tastes have drastically changed over the years and now I definitely prefer the old-world style. For the most part, I drink wine with food , so structure is key. Alas, many new-world wines just don't offer this at an affordable price point. But many old world wines do.

More and more these days, you've got to know your old-world producers, though. I can't tell you how many times I've ordered wines in a restaurant based on the traditional regional profile only to find the producer has decided to make a super-ripe, oak-soaked wine that I have to wait until the end of the meal to drink.

Cheers,

Tim Hallett
www.scopertaimpors.com

To be honest, I do blame the restaurant to large extent. Wine is food, and they ought to keep in mind how it pairs. Of course they can put some Silver Oak and generic Super Tuscan on the menu to appease the international drinkers. But the wait staff or sommelier ought to provide some guidance. I also think restaurants will serve wines younger than ideal. Age won't solve acute over-oaking, but it follows that wines just recently bottled will taste much more like barrel samples. Now, Parker tries to over-leverage this defense about drinking too young since clearly many of these spoofy wines are aimed at the drink young audience. But there is some truth in this.

The funny part is it seems many of the fairly priced, well-made food wines simply don't leave California or even their growing regions! The sophisticated restaurants and consumers buy these up rapidly, leaving the cheap spoofs and expensive trophy wines for everyone else.

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Post #: 35