Mold in Cellar (Full Version)

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jeepie123 -> Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 3:22:48 PM)

My cellar has been getting mold on the sheetrock recently.  My contractor proposed installing an ultraviolet system (AiroCide ACS-25).  The cost will probably approach $2000.  Any thoughts as to this proposed solution?  Any better ideas?

Thank you.



ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 3:32:19 PM)

Hi jeepie, welcome to the forum. Describe your cellar a little better. Above ground/below, Natural/chilled, size and surfaces. I'm not familiar with those systems but mold typically continues to reoccur unless moisture is also eliminated/controlled.



jeepie123 -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 4:03:48 PM)

quote:

Describe your cellar a little better.


Thanks for the welcome and prompt response.  My "cellar" may be better described as a wine room, above ground, inside house, one exterior wall, raised foundation, built 5 years ago during a remodel.  Chilled, about 6 feet by 10 feet, 10 feet high.  Holds 1000 bottles.  Built-in Western Red Cedar racks, sheetrock ceiling and walls, honed granite counters, cork flooring.  Temperature controlled at a steady 55 to 56 degrees.  I don't know about the humidity, but agree with your concern about moisture possibly an ongoing issue. 



LionGaucho -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 4:52:32 PM)

My gut instinct is to avoid UV radiation.  Wines are in dark bottles to avoid light shock, and UV I believe is what you really want to avoid.  Probably the wines would be OK, but long-term exposure to UV light shock is not something I'd want to mess with.



ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 6:17:26 PM)

quote:

I don't know about the humidity, but agree with your concern about moisture possibly an ongoing issue.
I'd invest in a humidity gauge and figure out where the moisture is coming from and get the humidity in the cellar under control. This article gives some basic info on wine cellar humidity needs.

Controlling the humidity has more impact than just mold formation as you can see, it also affects the wine corks so it's an important parameter.

BTW I don't have a temp/humidity controlled cellar yet myself other than a refrigerator style one, but have been researching it as my bottle count has exceeeded my capacity. [:D]



GalvezGuy -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/21/2010 7:28:48 PM)

Avoid UV radiation at all costs, very very very bad for your wines. Probably the best option is to go with paperless wallboard. Mold needs something to feed on to survive, the paperless wallboard takes that away.



wadcorp -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 7:02:48 AM)

jeepie123: Welcome to the forum.

First thing that popped into my mind was that there might be a leak behind the wall. It could be small, but consistently allowing water in & that's soaking into the drywall. Could have happened during the remodel.

You don't mention if there was a vapor-barrier installed, or in what part of the country you live.

.



Tpety -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 7:20:53 AM)

I have a slight mold issue with my underground passive cellar. It's not really a bother for me as I have block walls, but I find that I have to wipe my labels off once a year or so. If you have an above ground cellar with mold, you clearly have a moisture issue and your vapor barrier is not working correctly.

My passive cellar is currently 38 degrees, that pretty much takes care of most of my moisture and mold issues until Spring.



wineismylife -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 7:23:59 AM)

What kind of cooling unit are you using?  Most wine cellar cooling units like Breezaire and Whisperkool are designed to remove excess humidity from the cellar.



tjib13 -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 7:35:18 AM)

You can kill the mold off by spraying it with a edited out until further notice. Then you need to find out what the cause of the excess moisture is and eliminate that. Is your cellar currently warmer than the surrounding rooms? Such as in a basement in a climate that is currently cooler than the 55 deg wine room? 



drycab -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 8:15:05 AM)

Haven't I read somewhere that bleach in a wine cellar is absolutely the wrong thing to do? Doesn't it breed bad "stuff" in the wine or corks at the least? I'm going looking for the article......


I found this quote:

http://www.guardianpreservation.com/blog/how-to-save-your-wine-from-mold/

"If you do have mold and decide to get rid of it, then there is one extremely important thing to know. Do not, DO NOT, use chlorine bleach to clean the mold. While mold cannot enter corked bottles, chlorine ions can penetrate bottles and barrels to destroy your wine. Millions of dollars of wine were lost in California when wineries tried to remove mold by scrubbing their walls with bleach. If you use any other chemicals, check to make sure it will also not damage your wine."




PMDias -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 2:59:11 PM)

Well, first thing we need to determine is whether there really is a problem: mold is a common occurrence in natural caves, and I've heard at least a couple of wine-makers state their belief that it somehow contributes to the character of their wines. As far as simple storage concerns go, it is far better to err on the side of excess humidity than to have dry conditions that may cause shrinking corks, leakage and so forth. Humidity control in the cellar most often involves addition, rather than removal.

Of course, with in-house storage it's not that simple, since what is harmless to wine bottles can be pretty bad for human residents. But I would definitely avoid the chlorine treatment, drycab being correct in his concerns - TCA has also been linked to chlorine cleaners; and I'd also share the concern about light sources. I know there are anti-fungal treatments, and expect that some may not have harmful side effects on wine, but I have no idea what they are.



drycab -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/22/2010 3:28:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PMDias

Well, first thing we need to determine is whether there really is a problem: mold is a common occurrence in natural caves, and I've heard at least a couple of wine-makers state their belief that it somehow contributes to the character of their wines.



While in many caves in Burgundy last year, there were whole vintages of wine covered in mold, like a carpet, ageing peacefully. The winemakers didn't seem to think it was a problem. Of course there were no labels yet, the bottles being marked with wax pencil until the labels are affixed, so no paper for the mold to eat. But quite interesting to say the least!



Tpety -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/23/2010 7:49:49 AM)

I was letting the mold grow on my bottles as well for a few years, but then changed my mind and now wipe it off occasionally. I'm not sure why though, I think it looks really cool, but I'm sure most of my guests would rather see a pretty label.



LionGaucho -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/23/2010 11:07:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drycab

Haven't I read somewhere that bleach in a wine cellar is absolutely the wrong thing to do? Doesn't it breed bad "stuff" in the wine or corks at the least? I'm going looking for the article......


I found this quote:

http://www.guardianpreservation.com/blog/how-to-save-your-wine-from-mold/

"If you do have mold and decide to get rid of it, then there is one extremely important thing to know. Do not, DO NOT, use chlorine bleach to clean the mold. While mold cannot enter corked bottles, chlorine ions can penetrate bottles and barrels to destroy your wine. Millions of dollars of wine were lost in California when wineries tried to remove mold by scrubbing their walls with bleach. If you use any other chemicals, check to make sure it will also not damage your wine."




I agree.  Keep bleach away.  Keep UV away.



Eric K -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/23/2010 7:22:01 PM)

From reading, not experience, I suspect their is a vapor barrier issue. On a remodel it is usually very difficult to properly apply a traditional vapor barrier. What type of insulation, vapor barrier, and dry wall were used (ie: green board)?



Tpety -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/23/2010 8:22:03 PM)

By the way, it sounds like you have a beautiful cellar.



adoban -> RE: Mold in Cellar (12/24/2010 10:03:14 AM)

Wouldn't it be cheaper to pull out the drywall and replace it with concrete board; it's impervious to water/mold.



BCLloyd -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 10:19:43 AM)

I'm currently working on a winery that is 1/2 below grade. concrete construction (no sealer). There is an intake louver at one end of the room & an exhaust fan at the other.. They have an issue with mold growing with in a short time of using the building. They are fermenting in barrels on one side of the room & have a plastic sheet up to seperate the other side of the room for storage of aging barrels. I will be going over to the building tomorrow to inspect the building & insure that it is not a mechanical issue.

What humidity is recommended for fermentation? & what humidity is recommended for barrel storage? I think I've seen barrel storage set at around 70% RH.

Thanks for the help.
Lloyd.



grafstrb -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 11:54:49 AM)

I've read somewhere that vineagar will kill mold (don't know if it will keep it from recurring, however).  might be a potential solution to look into.



gbm -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 12:31:16 PM)

Lloyd

I'm not sure about fermenting and barrel storage.  I suspect it is different from storage of bottled wine.  Although barrel storage may be similar.  On this forum, smigdiggler might know as he is in the business.  Otherwise, check out wineberserkers.com.  They have a lot of ITB folks over there that might be able to help.



BCLloyd -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 4:52:20 PM)

Thanks for the tip on Wineberskers.

I've done some more looking into the issue. It seems the owner of the winery has modified the building, which has affected the designed & installed ventilation system. I'll be meeting on site tomorrow to have a closer look. but it seems to be an easy solution of removing the changes & allowing proper ventilation to resume.



BCLloyd -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 4:55:03 PM)

Sheet rock, has a paper side which has bio material. If you change the sheet rock to a different grade something more for hospitals & clean spaces that has a more suited paper material.



Beachrooster -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 7:09:53 PM)

Welcome Jeepie,

All the replies are good advice, no UV no Chlorine, get a humidity and temp monitor. There are many types of drywall but the large do it yourself centers generally have a moisture/mold resistant drywall sheets. I think the paper is actually the resistant part. There are also mold resistant paints available.



Beachrooster -> RE: Mold in Cellar (2/16/2011 7:17:33 PM)

What kind of vapor barrier did you install? Eight mil plastic?

I know it will be expensive to pull down the walls and rebuild, but you may save in the long run. Do you plan on keeping your wine for a long time, or even more importantly do you plan on selling any of your wine in the future. Nobody wants moldy torn labels. If you do pull down the drywall, you might consider spray on foam for insulation and as a barrier. Its pricy but it works really well.




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