RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home

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ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/5/2012 3:20:06 PM)
Bottled the barbera late last night. Got 30 bottles, plus a healthy glass full for tasting purposes. Think, all-in-all, it turned out pretty well. Overfilled the first bottle, so got to sample a little from that. And it wasn't good at all. Quite bad, in fact. But as I sampled from other overfilled bottles later, the taste had really mellowed. And by the time I finished my "official" tasting glass full of wine, I think the taste had really settled down. Not 100% sure why that was, and why the first taste was pretty terrible, since the siphon wasn't drawing wine from the top of the carboy or anything. But it was what it was. Think it'll be a good little pizza wine at the end of the day. A bit of fruit, but still good spice, and decent backbone for what it is. Will likely put labels on in the next day or so, then move on to bottling the cab. Just in time, of course, for getting the Syrah grapes in so I can start the process all over again!

ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/6/2012 1:09:09 PM)
Popped and poured a bottle last night with Italian (how's that for bottle-aging---one whole day!), and it was pretty tasty. Definitely could use a little more time in the bottle, but was crystal clear, with all the notes I previously mentioned, and worked great with the tomato-based acidity in the sauce. Pleased with this outcome for sure, and excited to try it over the mid-to-long term.

ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/10/2012 4:02:51 PM)
rabs' inquiry and an afternoon alone at home while the Direct TV guy installed a new service left me wondering what my 2010 homemade Tempranillo tasted like... Here's my dumbfounded note... quote: 7/10/2012: Holy crap. this has turned into a decent wine. Color is deep purple black. Nose is warm oak and mulberry, palate has some nice depth, medium body, still a bit too much tart acid on the finish, but that is fading from bottling. Will hold for another 6 months before sampling again. Moral of this story. Good things MIGHT come to those who wait. [:)]

crispino -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/11/2012 6:15:30 AM)
Hello all, Okay, so long story short, quite a number of years ago (let's call it 10) a housemate and I got all the equipment and a box of juice concentrate to make wine. Then, as I'm sure has happened with many other well-intentioned people, we never did it. All these many years later I've just completed a small wine cellar in the basement, and I realized that I still have all the equipment, good as new, never used. I was thinking it might be fun to finally try this experiment. The question is: do you think I can still use that box of juice concentrate? It was (obviously) never opened, and has been in a dark and fairly cool cellar for the entire time. I'd like to try it, but of course it would be a bummer to go through the trouble of doing it only to have my very first batch be spoiled from the get-go. What do you think? - Chris

ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/11/2012 9:58:44 AM)
quote: The question is: do you think I can still use that box of juice concentrate? It was (obviously) never opened, and has been in a dark and fairly cool cellar for the entire time. I'd like to try it, but of course it would be a bummer to go through the trouble of doing it only to have my very first batch be spoiled from the get-go. What do you think? Well, I doubt the "official" shelf life of the concentrate is that long, but if I were contemplating this I'd figure our how to get a sample, prefereably without opening the bag, a syringe maybe, and then I'd smell, taste and measure the brix content of the fruit juice. Don't swallow if you taste botulism. [:)] If it seemed OK, I'd give it a go for experimental purposes if nothing else. If you want to make wine in the future, you will learn a lot about fermentation just by watching it and babying it along. The only other investment needed at this point is probably a package of yeast. I'm certain a 10 year old package of dry yeast is dead. I'd buy 3-4 packages, because that's what it takes sometimes if fermentation is stubborn. Depending on where you are located a local brew/winemaking shop will sell packs for $1-2/pack. They can also be ordered on-line. Pick a yeast that matches the grape varietal in your bag. The other investment is bottles and corks, but you really don't have to decide on those until you know you have a wine in the carboy that you want to drink/save.

crispino -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/12/2012 4:12:10 PM)
That is a brilliant idea with the syringe and I think I am going to try that. If it's already bad, well then nothing lost by trying, and if it's good, then yeah, I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the idea! I'm also sure that 10-year-old yeast is no good anymore so I'll get something new before I try this. I will update when I've done it and let you know the results. - Chris

ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/16/2012 7:31:40 PM)
I finally got my Barbera blend (91% barbera, 9% cabernet sauvignon) bottled and just got the labels on. Thanks to Floydtp for the advice on using milk as an adhesive for the labels. Went SO much smoother this time than with the viognier (where I ordered self-adhesive labels from zazzle.com). Now to just let the wine rest in the bottles for a little while, and then enjoy it with pizza / pasta all fall, winter, and spring!!

ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/23/2012 9:46:01 PM)
So I came across a vineyard fairly close to Dallas that had a good amount of ripe grapes. So floydtp and I went out there yesterday to pick up some of their pinot noir. I didn't have really high hopes, to be frank. We just thought it would be a fun joint project. Initially we wanted to do a whole-cluster fermentation (discussed more on the whole-cluster ferm post), but the stems were simply too green, even though the grapes were very well ripened. So we decided to do "whole berry" fermentation instead, and maybe try to add some lignified stems back in at the end of the cold-maceration. So we actually de-stemmed (but didn't crush) 140 pounds of pinot-noir clusters over a period of several hours yesterday. Fun times, and gave us a great chance to inspect the fruit, and pull out anything we didn't want to end up in the wine. We were super impressed that the grapes were in such great shape. Even though we were hand-sorting each and every grape, there were very few discards. Everything was how it was supposed to be. So we're giong to be doing a cold maceration for a week, then we'll pitch the yeast and we'll see how we end up. Should end up with a sub-14% alcohol wine. This is always the part that kills me---like wondering what your unborn child is going to be like someday! [:D] Also, we were really impressed with the vineyard, and the care that the owner took to keep things neat, tidy, and really healthy. We'll be back (probably for the cabernet that will be ripe in the next few weeks).

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/24/2012 4:20:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside quote: The question is: do you think I can still use that box of juice concentrate? It was (obviously) never opened, and has been in a dark and fairly cool cellar for the entire time. I'd like to try it, but of course it would be a bummer to go through the trouble of doing it only to have my very first batch be spoiled from the get-go. What do you think? Well, I doubt the "official" shelf life of the concentrate is that long, but if I were contemplating this I'd figure our how to get a sample, prefereably without opening the bag, a syringe maybe, and then I'd smell, taste and measure the brix content of the fruit juice. Don't swallow if you taste botulism. [:)] If it seemed OK, I'd give it a go for experimental purposes if nothing else. If you want to make wine in the future, you will learn a lot about fermentation just by watching it and babying it along. The only other investment needed at this point is probably a package of yeast. I'm certain a 10 year old package of dry yeast is dead. I'd buy 3-4 packages, because that's what it takes sometimes if fermentation is stubborn. Depending on where you are located a local brew/winemaking shop will sell packs for $1-2/pack. They can also be ordered on-line. Pick a yeast that matches the grape varietal in your bag. The other investment is bottles and corks, but you really don't have to decide on those until you know you have a wine in the carboy that you want to drink/save. Chris doesn't the bad and or affected canisters of spoiled concentrate usually have some swelling. If there is no gas in the concentrate I wouldn't hesitate tasting it. As for you guys down in Dallas. It's quite impressive that you have fully ripe berries, but PN only takes 90 days from the appearance of fruit to harvest. I wonder if you have a way of finding out the soil depth and what kind of rock is under the vineyard. It really makes a big difference to actually have the vines go deep into the rock, which is why the V.V wines are so expensive and mineral driven. The one thing I do know that unique to Texas and Nebraska is that they both have gigantic natural underground aquifers beneath the rock base. I know that some really determined vines can go super deep depending upon age. If they were to get into the ground water level and/or aquifer then those berries could be a little less concentrated than you might expect. I think its neat that you are going to do whole cluster fermenting. Will you crush the entire cluster gently in a press before adding any yeast or are you going to hope the natural yeast will kick in? I would still put in some camden( Potassium Metabisulfate) to inoculate against any nasty bacteria or fungi that could be lurking in the stem. Your yeast should be immune to the camden, but it will save you from nasty toxins when it finally does ferment. Another thought is to ask the vineyards owner if he dumps his skins leftover after maceration onto the vineyard. If so, the yeast that has been on these skins should definitely play into a natural occurring yeast in the vineyard. If he grows many different kinds of grapes you could have some interesting yeasts floating about the air in the evenings and mornings.

floydtp -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/24/2012 6:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: champagneinhand I think its neat that you are going to do whole cluster fermenting. Will you crush the entire cluster gently in a press before adding any yeast or are you going to hope the natural yeast will kick in? We are actually doing whole berry not whole cluster at this point but have saved the stems and may add them back depending on how they are once they have dried out. Regarding yeast, we decided not to roll the dice on native yeast this time and will use commercial so we added some k-meta during our sorting/whole berry destemming process. The vineyard grows well over a dozen varieties so it could be quite a native yeast party in the fermenter. The plan as of now is to gently press somewhere around 0-3 Brix.

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/24/2012 8:17:45 PM)
Very cool![8D]

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 1:11:03 PM)
I was thinking of contacting somebody locally to see if they would have any extra grapes that i could practice making wine with. I would have to buy a press, crusher and all the equipment in time for the fall harvest. Please convince me this is crazy and should be avoided....

ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 1:39:10 PM)
You should totally try it. Chances are you won't have to buy any of those things, unless you want to do so. I'm sure there's at least one home-brew / winemaking store in the greater Chicagoland area, and they'll usually rent that kind of equipment to you for a few hours. Easy as you can get, and pretty cheap too.

ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 1:39:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khmark7 I was thinking of contacting somebody locally to see if they would have any extra grapes that i could practice making wine with. I would have to buy a press, crusher and all the equipment in time for the fall harvest. Please convince me this is crazy and should be avoided.... Karl, I think it's a GREAT idea, and not crazy at all. Most home winemakingf/brew shops will rent crusher/destemmer and basket press, or you might be able to borrow them. I'd start scanning Craig's list/e-bay for used stuff now. I know I started up in 2009 for probably $500-700 total investment, and once you buy these things they last forever, or until you tire of the hobby and resell them. I'm looking at buying dozen or so more 5-gallon carboys for this fall. Fruit is kinda falling into my lap it seems, my old vineyard, plus another Syrah source are confirmed, and I have a lead on 300 acres of 2nd or 3rd leaf Cab Sauv that won't even be harvested this year, so those are free grapes. Not sure how good the wine will be, it may be young/green, but Brix count will undoubtedly get there this fall, so it's worth a carboy or three and some yeast just to process a few hundred free pounds and see. FWIW, it may just be my imagination, but Washington seems to have more new wine grape plantings this spring/summer than I've seen in previous 3 years. I've driven across Horse Heaven Hills, Wahluke Slope, Red Mountain, and Yakima Valley over the past month and thousands of grow tubes are everywhere. That means many opportunities for young fruit over the next few years before those vineyards go commercial, and eventually more fruit available allover the state. Good luck to the guys in Texas, I can't imagine harvesting in July unless you're talking cherries or peaches. [:)]

musedir -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 2:48:44 PM)
Farmer Chris... You come from good bootlegger stock?[:D]

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 3:35:56 PM)
There's a homebrew shop less than a mile from me located on the road that i live in town. It's like it was destined to be..... Would probably buy most my equipment, reason being is that i'm growing so many different grapes that eventually i will be harvesting and pressing lots of different small batches every week or so. I need to buy a small barrel press, probably the smallest one they make. Not that it matters, but about 33% of my grape plants are for eating and making grape jelly. Planted or are planting Concord, Fredonia, Steuben, Beta, America, Buffalo, Edelweiss and Niagara for juice/jelly production alone. Anyone have any luck making semi-sweet whites or Rosé?? That is my goal.

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 5:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khmark7 There's a homebrew shop less than a mile from me located on the road that i live in town. It's like it was destined to be..... Would probably buy most my equipment, reason being is that i'm growing so many different grapes that eventually i will be harvesting and pressing lots of different small batches every week or so. I need to buy a small barrel press, probably the smallest one they make. Not that it matters, but about 33% of my grape plants are for eating and making grape jelly. Planted or are planting Concord, Fredonia, Steuben, Beta, America, Buffalo, Edelweiss and Niagara for juice/jelly production alone. Anyone have any luck making semi-sweet whites or Rosé?? That is my goal. I found a small basket press on eBay for $56 plus $50 in shipping. Its just a screw down, not a ratcheted basket and very small. It did come with an oak plate with edges and a draining spicket for that price. I really had to practice patience because sometimes these presses can go for a lot or a little, it just a wait and see to find a good used press. And Yes, Chris talked me in to buying one. I'm going to have to buy grapes this year it looks like. Horrible weather here.

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 5:25:18 PM)
That's a good price CIH. I was looking at one a few hours ago while visiting the local Brewshop and theirs was $285 new. Right now i'm debating when to purchase the equipment needed to make a kit.....and will see if there is a chance of getting some of my own grapes. Powdery Mildew is tough to stop once it gets started. Hopefully the copper and sulfur treatments keep it in check just long enough for the vines to properly prepare themselves for winter.

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 6:21:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khmark7 That's a good price CIH. I was looking at one a few hours ago while visiting the local Brewshop and theirs was $285 new. Right now i'm debating when to purchase the equipment needed to make a kit.....and will see if there is a chance of getting some of my own grapes. Powdery Mildew is tough to stop once it gets started. Hopefully the copper and sulfur treatments keep it in check just long enough for the vines to properly prepare themselves for winter. I must have a resistant strain of Powdery mildew as it looks like I spread it to the unaffected grapes. I did have to lose 2 auctions at higher prices, but finally succeeded the 3rd time for a lower price. It really doesn't matter about my grapes as we have just has warning released for the nearby counties on the Lake. I'had previously not heard of a Derecho so I looked it up. A solid block of wind with a backside that exceeds most hurricanes, greatly in excess of 70mph. Now I've been through floods, tropical storms and a drive down I-80 where I could see 3 funnel clouds until my windshield wipers were torn off over the Platte River. I have yet to experience one of these strange occurrences, but we are battening down all the hatches. Will ride it out in the wine cellar with a glass, flashlight and corkscrew if necessary.

mclancy10006 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 6:25:40 PM)
Not the home wine maker myself, but will be up in Canada later in the summer with my wife Portuguese famliy who make vind verde our of grapes the grow in the backyard in Toronto which is "bold" to say the least. -Mark

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/25/2012 6:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mclancy10006 Not the home wine maker myself, but will be up in Canada later in the summer with my wife Portuguese famliy who make vind verde our of grapes the grow in the backyard in Toronto which is "bold" to say the least. -Maek I love Portuguese food especially Linguisa which is not to be found around here. My friend in middle school had a mom that made this treasure every Summer, so I have missed it greatly.

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/29/2012 5:26:24 AM)
Does anyone know how to make white wines without them going thru Malo? Is there an easy way to filter out the bacteria that cause this? I'm doing all my research right now......and there is a chance that some grapes might fall into my lap this year, so i'm trying to be ready if that happens. I really need to just purchase a kit and start experimenting.

champagneinhand -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/29/2012 3:10:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khmark7 Does anyone know how to make white wines without them going thru Malo? Is there an easy way to filter out the bacteria that cause this? I'm doing all my research right now......and there is a chance that some grapes might fall into my lap this year, so i'm trying to be ready if that happens. I really need to just purchase a kit and start experimenting. You actually have to purchase the bugs to undergo malolactic fermentation and a little package is quite price, relative to the yeast and acids. If you juice is to fat you can be very judicious with some malic acid. When it get near the freezing point after fermentation, you simply place your carboy outside you back porch and early in the AM, before sunrise the sediment will have mostly clarify. You will have a bunch of lees at the bottom so time to rack into another carboy. Repeat the process as necessary to get things a clear as acceptable. There are filtering machines, but you end up tasting bleached cloth padding more than anything. Your wine may contain a little sediment, over commercial whites but you can always pour them through a stainless filter, ike the kind that comes with a vinturi. This option is also available before bottling or through a nylon, like women's pantyhose. I haven't done this yet, but I haven't done a white yet. Chris may know better, though I think he doesn't use particle filters or and chemical sediment removal like sparkloid. When ready to bottle add enough simple sugar syrup to satisfy your sweet tooth or not.

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/29/2012 3:38:30 PM)
I enjoy whites that haven't gone thru Malo......but i've heard that it starts spontaneously. Trying to avoid that. Just purchased an old wine press on Ebay....now i need to find a grape crusher.

ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (7/29/2012 4:08:49 PM)
My experience has been a nice dose of SO2 at end of primary fermentation and a cold stabilization at ~40 F will stop/prevent ML, along with dropping out remaining yeast, tartartic, and haze. cih is correct, I've never used any fining agents or filtered. I've used a frig for cold stablizing, but sitting a carboy in a cold garage, etc... works too.

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (8/9/2012 6:48:06 PM)
Purchased more grapes, more fence posts and more equipment. Runaway Train...... Need to start thinking about a grape crusher. Does anyone have grapes to work with this year yet?

ckinv368 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (8/9/2012 11:15:05 PM)
Got 150 pounds of Pinot Noir from OK to share with floydtp, and we're in the process of fermenting now. We'll be pressing on Saturday, after about a solid week and a half of fermentation. Belive we're pretty much dry at this point. While I don't really think that wine of any kind tastes wonderful the moment it turns dry, my girlfriend's tasting note of "tastes like springtime renewal Febreeze, mixed with pine trees" did not encourage me. That, and the fact that the wine is pretty light in color. Of course, we did whole-berry fermentation for the pinot, and it is probably light in color and taste due to the fact the juice inside the berries has not been released yet. At least I hope that is what the deal is. We'll see come Saturday! Also have 150 pounds of Cab that I picked up on Sunday that I'm fiddling with. Going to go with a long cold-soak, followed by some funky co-inoculation experiments (with two different kinds of yeast, and MLF at the same time), followed by a warm post-ferm maceration a-la Robert Mondavi Reserve. We'll see how / if the wine turns out. Either way it'll be a fun little experiment!

wadcorp -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (8/10/2012 3:59:43 AM)
That stain is going to be impossible to get out of your bathtub. .

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (8/10/2012 4:18:29 AM)
Yeah, i don't see how i will ever be able to control fermenting temps in my basement. It's one thing to buy a kit in the winter time, but it's another to pick up whole grapes and try fermenting in August or September when the basement is 68F. Bathtub? Why not use the Water Softener?

khmark7 -> RE: Warning: Don't Try this at Home (8/13/2012 5:14:59 PM)
Received my antique grape press last week. Today i just ordered a grape crusher. Slowing getting the equipment together....

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