RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (Full Version)

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grafstrb -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:23:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand
... I am a firm believer that everybody under 34 is still relatively clueless. The are consumer driven or agenda driven sheep. I didn't pick that age I actually saw a show where a guy came to that conclusion and looking around, I concurred. ...

I am under 34. Does this mean you think I am consumer driven and/or am an agenda-driven sheep? Or, am I simply mis-reading your post?




champagneinhand -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:25:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: S1


quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Caeleric, why is it you feel that Kramer is imposing his tastes upon you?   Is it his statement that overripe wine exists?   Different people appreciate different styles, and I have no doubt that many people change in their preferrence.   My only disagreement with you is the alcohol part.  I don't care who can or can't taste the 16% alcohol in a Cali Zinfandel, but that alcohol for sure still affects a person.  High alcohol in wines gives me acid reflux and the whole alcohol on the brain thing....but then again I only weigh around 155 lbs.

We'll need to fatten you up in Charleston[:)]
HRH is a biker/runner. Once I was (hopefully will get motivated)



Oh, if I only was good at posting pictures at this point, it might be of "Chumly" fromPawn Stars and HRH might be slugging you in your sleep. Really we all sound like a bunch of "old farts." We had to get on a learning curve at some point in our youth. We don't want to sound like a person who could never be in any kind of relationship because we were not tolerant of others opinions. I am probably the worst example of this as I tend to take my friends and family in limited doses. I think of my father 25 years ago and wonder if, I sounded as silly as my son sounds when he finally gets a clue? "Hey Dad, you know the shy isn't really blue. Its teal on clear days and really a deep purple on moonless nights!" The kids 22 years old. What should I do, slug him in the face because he finally noticed something on his own that wasn't printed in a magazine or that had come out of another idiots mouth? Come on, the world is big enough for everybody. If not then we would all take the subways to work at the same time. Live in identical flats in the suburbs. Art would only consist of the realists and the only style of building would be the glass and steel skyscraper. Yes, I have had a couple of glasses of red, to break my fury into an understanding that without some disagreement, this world would be boring! We have our Marxist, our Pat Robertson's, our Robert Parker's and our he who should not be named [Bruce Sanderson]. It gets this way in upper NY during Winter, every year. We are tired of seeing black, white and gray every day that we are willing to tear at someones neck just to see some nice crimson.

Spring is coming soon, for those of us in the Northern hemisphere. Things change and yet they are the same. Some riot in 5 years will write the exact opposite and everybody will give him credit for the first person to realize it, but the old grumbly people. Einstein din't invent relativity. He's just the guy who got credit for writing about it in our time frame. All things are relevant, so let's just dismiss this as ignorance that will be tempered by the enlightenment of time.

By the way don't tell HRH, that I pictured a tattooed biker dude as her from your post. The grand effects of red wine upon perception. I see why they have little wine in the Army liquor stores(class 6), nobody would bother to fight about anything. Passion is great, but we must let the future gens grow into their own, because we will not always be around to correct, or mock them.


yeah, I know..."die, hippie, die.."




bretrooks -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:25:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Doug


quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

I avoid my strong politics on this forum, but surely more than 20cl (no idea in old-money) of milk in your coffee makes you an enemy of.....<insert news organisation/political persuation of your choice here...>.

Milky coffee or machiatto? Sheeeeeeeeeet!



Lattes and Cappucinos are commonly served like that, nowadays. They're really like "liquid dessert drinks" or something. Even the so-called "non-fat" ones often get so much sugar added by rapacious consumers or baristas that it's a trip to hyperglycemic heaven.


My youngest brother was a black apron guy at a Starbucks for a while, and while he liked doing the cupping/tasting thing, he also liked inventing drinks even though he wasn't really supposed to. He got in trouble one time after people started walking into other locations and asking for one of his more popular unofficial creations, the "Willy Wonka." I think coffee might have been an ingredient.




J2K -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:30:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Caeleric, why is it you feel that Kramer is imposing his tastes upon you? 


I agree. I dont feel he is imposing his tastes on you either. Unless you feel he is stating that ALL wines drinkers now prefer more subtle lighter wines?![8|]





champagneinhand -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:40:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb


quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand
... I am a firm believer that everybody under 34 is still relatively clueless. The are consumer driven or agenda driven sheep. I didn't pick that age I actually saw a show where a guy came to that conclusion and looking around, I concurred. ...

I am under 34. Does this mean you think I am consumer driven and/or am an agenda-driven sheep? Or, am I simply mis-reading your post?



you my friend may be the exception to any rule. 34 isn't like being 17. It's just a number I picked estimating when we realized our forefathers and their forefathers, et al...weren't really that dumb. They just played the quiet part to let us grow into ourselves. Long ago, holidays were established at specific times of year, for very important, world altering reasons, yet we probably thought they just picked early November for when they hold them in the USA, and somehow the harvest, trapping and hunting season's had nothing to do with it. Thanksgiving holiday is a time to fatten up, mend fences over pity disputes and relate to one another.

Not everybody ages the same. I'm sure you have met a very found person with an old soul. Its the same reason old people don't look real well when backing up. 1, they can get away with it, 2 if they get crushed, no great loss to them as cancer would be much less painful.

I think the justification for the age of 34 came about in the show, because he was a judge, whole his decision making compromised by selfish desire. That is not calling everyone under that age selfish or everybody older wiser. My father in law doesn't wear his hearing aids on purpose, then he has an excuse for not hearing everything. If there is a fire, he will smell it or see it.

Chill grass hopper, not reason to be offended.




grafstrb -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 6:48:32 PM)

I'm not really offended, although what you wrote certainly is potentially offensive to all who qualify as "exceptions" to your stated rule. Mostly, I was just trying to figure-out exactly to what extent you actually believe what you wrote; really though, I'm not sure I'm any clearer on that now than I was 15 minutes ago.[8D]




dontime -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 7:18:01 PM)

I posted over on the 'coffee' thread earlier today that I had never had a cup of coffee.  After reading all of this, looks to have been a good decision.  [:)]




BobMilton -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 7:37:55 PM)

Nice response. I'm always brought down to earth by remembering that one out of four bottles produced in this country carry a label from Ernest and Julio Gallo! All those wines any of the critics love could disappear and there would be NO impact on wine sales in America. (Not that I'm a big fan of Gallo, but it does keep one humble)





jeremyzolk -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 8:51:24 PM)

I'm a few weeks shy of 33. At home I drink tea. Green. When I feel like something stronger, I get a Mocha. It's essentially hot chocolate with a couple shots in it. Who couldn't love that. Oh, and i get it at Starbucks. Why? Because when I walk into a coffee joint I don't wanna feel like I suddenly stepped into some f'ing hipster Portland establishment where I gotta wait 30 minutes for a drink - with house music bumpin' - due to the lone, freshly wake-n-baked employee taking his/her sweet-arsed time.




J2K -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 8:57:00 PM)

How did this thread turn into a rant about starbucks and coffee? Isnt there another thread for coffee going on??




vinopkm -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 9:11:42 PM)

Damn I'm 32 and screwed- I like jammy zins and chai lattes -but I know Scott likes them as well- so I might be safe...
Jammy Zins have their place -at least IMHO. Rhones, Spanish and WA wines are sneaking up quickly though. And Italian and every other red....

quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

I'm not really offended, although what you wrote certainly is potentially offensive to all who qualify as "exceptions" to your stated rule. Mostly, I was just trying to figure-out exactly to what extent you actually believe what you wrote; really though, I'm not sure I'm any clearer on that now than I was 15 minutes ago.[8D]





champagneinhand -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 9:13:54 PM)

hey if some guy didn't leave a pot filled with some barley, before a rain storm, only to retrieve it later...we might not have any beer in the world.

My point was that the guy who wrote the article in the first place, has a job. His job was to stir up passionate debate among a relatively
civil group, which gets his name out there and the magazines name out there, which in turn sell issues and the fish wrap turns a profit. The guy might not believe a word he wrote, buty if people start talking about it, some producers may change and some may not. If the ones that change, profit, while the ones that don't decline in sales or even remain the same, the the hypothesis was correct, even if this guy didn't believe a word he wrote.

This really shows us the power of the pen( laptop) over the sword. If one person wants change, they pick a charismatic person to champion the cause while they sit far off observing. If the selected champion in turn causes enough fervor for people to act(violently or not) then the status quo has changed. In response the persons with interest in keeping the stays quo, usually rebuff the challengers and ultimately the charismatic leader takes the fall for it and is remembered as a trouble maker that was rightly put in his place. All the time, the person who introduced said concept to the charismatic person hedges money for or against the hypothesis and either profits or losses little, without going down in history as a prick or other foul name. That is unless the charismatic figure...like A. Hitler, does such damage to the global society, that people dedicate their lives to hunt down the roots of this nefarious deed.

Eric, not trying to be political, so lets substitute, James Suckling, as the example. This is sort of how life works. When you have the time to observe world events or small niche like event in the wine and or coffee business, where serious money changes hands, within a relatively peaceful and small percentage of the population, it is just another example of innovation or fads that either stick or don't stick, based solely or at least mostly upon historical patterns.

The movie "trading places" was a perfect example poking fun at old money types, showing the very same things. Many despise the Hollywood actors, but they play a role in modern society of repetition that keeps a good chunk of us interested until finally many of us figure it out. Parody, the retelling of old stories, with a little creative penmanship can cause a whole lot of debate with passions and emotions getting high. It always happens as we approach the Spring and Fall equinox, and then we follow this by making amends with our fellow debaters and either the paradigm shifts slowly or it doesn't.

Okay hints to my personality...devils advocate, if the other side has too many proponents or exact reverse. I am a levi's 501/505 kind of guy. levi's and leather jackets may never be the high fashion that many desire, but they are never out of style as they are classic and comfortable. Never take anything to seriously during the months of February/March depending upon weather extremes for the season and the same is true in late September and October. These things have been around since way before Ancient Egypt, the mayans and the further up in latitude the more you need to be able to play the role of peace maker as the times come, this is a fact, not some dumb theory. Climates are much harsher towards the polar caps and the majority seem to be more centrist involving everything. Not History 101, but I have played the role of observer in so many places and so many situations that it really would be unbelievable, to most people.

I love that at CT, we are passionate about wine, food and apparently coffee, yet we are super civil even at the worst times of the year. Take a deep breath and relax, because its time to kick back and know better times are on the way. I also have personal experience with Mrs CiH as we used to always have a big blow out around this time for many years into our relationship. We realized the situation and usually schedule vacation time around now until late March. Hence peak Winter season in the Caribbean, but worth every penny to step back and enjoy while looking at accomplishments rather than failures.

Sorry if this has been exhausting. It has been had to type it out and not sound like an arrogant a$$hole. It's just my observations followed up by much reading and research into the subject. Many apologies to any who had previously taken offense. I am not exempt from any of these universal things and have stubbed my toe so to speak years and years before I realized that that rock was never going to move and I had better look where I walked.

Apologies to all, and to Eric I hope I didn't cross any bounds that aren't unforgivable.




forecaster -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 9:22:05 PM)

I am only 30, so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to post [:D].

I really can't understand how Starbucks became so successful in the States. Overpriced, terrible coffee. Is it just that there wasn't much of a coffee culture before Starbucks came along, and they created a market? Starbucks has been trying to gain a foothold in NZ, but they are failing and gradually closing branches. There were once 4 branches in wellington, but now down to just one. I suspect that it is because we had a well developed coffee culture before starbucks came along and there is good coffee available on every corner here. In much the same way it's pretty difficult to find starbucks in Italy or France.




recotte -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 11:07:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: forecaster

I am only 30, so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to post [:D].

I really can't understand how Starbucks became so successful in the States. Overpriced, terrible coffee. Is it just that there wasn't much of a coffee culture before Starbucks came along, and they created a market? Starbucks has been trying to gain a foothold in NZ, but they are failing and gradually closing branches. There were once 4 branches in wellington, but now down to just one. I suspect that it is because we had a well developed coffee culture before starbucks came along and there is good coffee available on every corner here. In much the same way it's pretty difficult to find starbucks in Italy or France.


I believe that the OP on this thread is "only" 30, too, so I think you're safe. [;)]

I think you're spot on with your observation. There were small pockets of gourmet coffee available, but nothing widespread. When it first started out, Starbucks was built around selling beans and having trained, knowledgeable staff, and it was a great experience. Then they realized that 80% of their sales were for drinks that were being carried out the door, and with that, their business model changed to focus on getting people in and out as quickly as possible, selling sugary, high-margin drinks. The rest is history....




Beachrooster -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 11:14:09 PM)

I've always lived a good rant!




Polymer -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/21/2012 11:15:01 PM)

Not sure why you're so offended by this...He definitely isn't saying one is better than the other....but he is saying tastes are evolving and people want an alternative...and that the alternatives are likely to grow..

Maybe it's because I didn't read the other posts on his blog..maybe there is some history behind it..but what you posted definitely doesn't sound like he's beating up on any particular style..or saying the alternative is way to go...




khmark7 -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 4:06:33 AM)

Well stated Champagneinhand.....after all it is Feb/March and no doubt we all need a vacation.  I know I'm overdue.




Old Doug -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 4:52:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

How did this thread turn into a rant about starbucks and coffee? Isnt there another thread for coffee going on??


Point taken, but when the thread title includes "rant" then perhaps there is some leeway...? [:)]




pjaines -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 5:53:57 AM)

Can we just have this thread as a general rant thread? I think we really need one of those.

My rant for the day - people talking on mobile phones on the trains .... "HELLO, YES, I'M ON THE TRAIN....HELLO.....CAN YOU HEAR ME?......I SAID I'M ON THE TRAIN......."

Why do they have to say they are on the train? Why can't they speak quietly?




J2K -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 6:07:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

Can we just have this thread as a general rant thread? I think we really need one of those.

My rant for the day - people talking on mobile phones on the trains .... "HELLO, YES, I'M ON THE TRAIN....HELLO.....CAN YOU HEAR ME?......I SAID I'M ON THE TRAIN......."

Why do they have to say they are on the train? Why can't they speak quietly?



What did you say? [;)]

People on cell phones tend to think they are the only people in the room/area! No, I dont want to hear their conversation!!

Ya, I like a rant thread!




wineismylife -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 6:18:33 AM)

Damn, everybody feel better this morning? [:-]




dontime -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 6:24:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

Damn, everybody feel better this morning? [:-]


If not, have a cup of coffee and call someone on your mobile phone.  Or skip the coffee.  [:D]




recotte -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 6:39:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dontime

quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

Damn, everybody feel better this morning? [:-]


If not, have a cup of coffee and call someone on your mobile phone.  Or skip the coffee.  [:D]



WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! I'M AT STARBUCKS... HOLD ON, I'VE GOTTA ORDER...

<Can I get a Venti Vanilla Double Chocolaty Chip Frappuccino with whipped cream? And one of those muffins.>

HEY, YOU WANT ANYTHING????




caeleric -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 6:57:38 AM)

i am a mere 30 years old, so take everything i've said and will say with that in mind. also, i've only been at this "wine thing" for about 4-5 years, but i feel i've gotten the most out of that short time by learning and drinking everything i can get my hands on.

to the questions about why i was offended by kramer's post, the questions are certainly valid. perhaps it's a historical trend of kramer's comments in which he continues to denegrate "big" wines, and more specifically the "tricks of the trade" that many winemakers employ. if i'm not mistaken, winemakers have ALWAYS manipulated the wine to achieve certain aromas, flavors, textures, etc. i mean seriously... isn't manipulation of grape juice how we get friggin' wine in the first place?! but i digress.

so here are a few excerpts that to me suggest - nay, scream - that larger-bodied, fuller-flavored wines are passe and for the simple-minded:

quote:

They only sell light-roasted coffee and say that dark roasting is tantamount to ruining good coffee.


admittedly, that is a quote from an article kramer didn't write. however, kramer included it in his article, so i am making the conclusion that he is using it to buttress his ultimate over-arching if only implied point that "dark-roasted red wines" (see below) are tantamount to ruining good wine.

quote:

What has this got to do with wine, you ask? A whole helluva lot, is my answer.


this is probably a "no doy" statement, but kramer is suggesting that changing tastes in coffee portend changing in tastes in wine. my takeaway was a general feeling of him saying, "it's about time" and almost reveling in the fact that everyone else finally coming to a conclusion at which he arrived long ago. to polymer's point above and to reiterate, this conclusion is derived not only from the "feel" of this article, but by adding up kramer's sentiments in posts for quite some time. i would be more than a little surprised if the average person reading this article came away thinking that kramer was a big fan of dark-roasted coffee and "dark-roasted red wine" and was lamenting the possibility that his preferred style was falling out of favor with the general public. my schooling was in journalism, and we spent oodles of time crafting pieces that stated facts in a way that still espoused one viewpoint over another. hell, what you choose to right about is often in and of itself an indication of where you fall on an issue. welcome to the spin zone.

quote:

In California right now you find-hell, you can easily drown in-a flood of, er, dark-roasted red wines made from overripe grapes that, as finished wines, clock in at 15 percent alcohol or higher.


again, i believe it is a rather overt if admittedly implied preference that kramer is espousing in which he feels that these dark-roasted red wines in which you can easily drown in California are not good wines and are, to a certain extent, indicative of lower-brow winemaking. i think many would bristle at my sacrilege if i stated, "In Burgundy right now you find-hell, you can easily drown in-a flood of, er, light-roasted red wines made from underripe grapes that, as finished wines, clock in at 12 percent alcohol or lower." it's obviously a writer saying, without saying, he doesn't like that wine. and the fact the "nanny nanny boo boo stick your head and doo doo" feel i get from the article is where my panties got twisted.

quote:

Two deceits are accomplished in one stroke.


taken as a preponderance of evidence, the word "deceit" is not meant to extract the warm and fuzzies when discussing some practices of californian winemakers.

quote:

Are we becoming-dare I say it?-more nuanced? By golly, I think we are.


this is one of the "cheekier" (i'm not sure i'm using that term correctly; i mean, i AM only 30 [:D]) comments kramer is making. again, as a preponderance of evidence, this sums up his over-arching implied theme that a palate that prefers nuance is more refined, while those that prefer bigger (and typically more alcoholic) wines are more sophomoric in their preferences. shame on him.

quote:

...big wines with obvious, outsize [sic] flavors and plenty of oak.


once again, the words "obvious" and "outsize(d)" don't connotate an ethos of winemaking that the author appreciates.

in conclusion, i don't give two sh*ts what matt kramer prefers to drink. just don't tell me, whether implicitly or explicitly, that i should be glad that winemaking is finally moving away from riper, more forward wines.




pdemaio -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 8:02:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

quote:

ORIGINAL: smigdiggler



I actually like the look on the barista's faces when I go into a starbucks and order a small black coffee. Many times they are stumped because its as if I am speaking a different language. [:D]


Thats at least partly because "small" is not a size in Buckspeak [:D]


This reminded me of one of my favorite quotes of all time from a movie (Role Models):

Danny: Can I get a large black coffee?
Barista: A what?
Danny: Large black coffee.
Barista: Do you mean a venti?
Danny: No, I mean a large.
Barista: Venti is large.
Danny: No, venti is twenty. Large is large. In fact, tall is large and grande is Spanish for large. Venti is the only one that doesn't mean large. It's also the only one that's Italian. Congratulations, you're stupid in three languages.
Barista: A venti is a large coffee.
Danny: Really? Says who? Fellini? Do you accept lira or is it all euros now?

Clip here (which helps get the humor)

PDQ




pbm -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 8:19:50 AM)

Elizabeth Banks. Yum.




Old Doug -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 9:27:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

Why do they have to say they are on the train? Why can't they speak quietly?



Totally agree - people are simply making fools of themselves these days, talking so loudly in public. You're standing beside a guy in the men's restroom, and all of a sudden he's blurting out stuff. Women may think this somewhat normal behavior, but I feel like saying, "Put your toy away until I'm gone at least 5 minutes." I've never actually said that to anyone, but maybe I would, if they were enough smaller than me.




champagneinhand -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 9:31:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pbm

Elizabeth Banks. Yum.


+1 on that. Gotta love her.




Old Doug -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 9:37:54 AM)

At times, Elizabeth Banks reminds me of Rachel McAdams.




smigdiggler -> RE: my rant- i just couldn't help myself (2/22/2012 9:42:07 AM)

You impulsive, petulant 30 year olds. When are you going to grow up.[8|]




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