Growing Your Own Grapes (Full Version)

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khmark7 -> Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 3:55:00 PM)

Who is??  What grapes?

All my grapes survived their first year in my yard, courtesy of the mild winter, or dumb luck.  Most already have leaves and shoots....now the tricky part is figuring out how to prune/train these things throughout the season.  My Niagra grapes (i think) are stubborn and keep trying to branch out all over the place.

Right now I have 2 Concord, 2 Niagra, 1 Catawba and 1 Reliance.  Will be planting another Catawba and a Cabernet Sauvignon.  All being grown for eating....and practice!



BobMilton -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 4:18:07 PM)

While it barely counts, I have 1 vine of Tablas Creek Syrah in my backyard. Only a few months old (to replace the prior one that we broke trying to transplant it from a pot into the ground. This one went directly into the ground).



RobRah -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 4:35:21 PM)

I have a Dornfelder, well trained over the last 6 years or so, and now just about ready to produce enugh fruit for doing something with (last year's harvest was a washout). I don't think I'll get a very good must weight from it (8% alcohol would be typical here), so I might play with pyment (honey fermented with grape must).



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:00:21 PM)

Pinot Gris, Chardonnay and Fronteac Gris (a Cornell clone like Furmint). I have a Niagra vine and a Concord, but those were to distract the Japanese Beetles(little scarabs), but I'm replacing them with some riesling. The Niagra and Concord are just not trainable. The others are difficult. You really need to handle the vines a bit rough and use wire like on bonsai trees to get them prepared before the fill all the way up with sap. Most of mine are spread out in 4 different directions much like a maple leaf, but missing one point. Many vineyards do this and I have a trestle that looks like a split rail fence and I'm having each vine go different directions. It's definitely like a botanical experiment. I should get a good crop of Chard and PG this year, but I always have to watch for late frost until Mid-May. We shall see. I've lost many vines to the brutally hard late frosts. Mine are just starting to bud, but the blueberry plant are springing leaves. I'm hoping to make a good late harvest this year.



S1 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:11:03 PM)

I'm not interested in the types (can't make myself call them varietals) which grow here.



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:16:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

I'm not interested in the types (can't make myself call them varietals) which grow here.



Come on I heard that Kosher Concord wine and Thompson seedless tastes like alcoholic grape juice cocktails.



S1 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:20:56 PM)

scuppernong and muscodine and people DO make "wine" from them. I'll wear a disguise and buy some for you in Sep[:D]



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:22:16 PM)

Good to hear that I'm not alone Champagne...both my Concord and Niagra seem better fitted for growing along a fence.  Hopefully I will have better luck with my other varietals.  Really looking forward to my Cab Sauvignon....but would really like to try Cabernet Franc.  Maybe I will give the U of Wisconsin a call.



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 6:28:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Good to hear that I'm not alone Champagne...both my Concord and Niagra seem better fitted for growing along a fence.  Hopefully I will have better luck with my other varietals.  Really looking forward to my Cab Sauvignon....but would really like to try Cabernet Franc.  Maybe I will give the U of Wisconsin a call.


Most schools with Ag programs will have local outlets where you can take leafs to be inspected, if you have a certain question. Keep plenty of copper sulfate and powdered lime on hand for those humid days. That's organically allowed.



J2K -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 7:05:49 PM)


I thought about this but How many vines does it take to produce one bottle of wine?



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/21/2012 9:02:01 PM)

1 good vine can produce up to a liter of fine wine. However my vines are planted very densely so I might get 500 ml if lucky especially if I go late harvest and have a tiny bit of Boytris. I am sure different vines have different production and it can vary from different soils and you want your berries tight and small, but packed with power. Thats one thing I don't think some people up here understand. My vines are literally less than 4-5 feet from the next vine. You have to be careful that one vine doesn't attack the other which can be devastating. I am ripping out the concord because it has done this, but I caught it it time and snipped it back. The leaf to grape ratio on Niagras and concord are huge. Mine are not hermaphrodites so no grapes, but those beetles really like the Chardonnay leafs and a cluster of 4-5 can strip a leaf clean in 15 minutes. I actually employed Ravens 1 year by trapping 100s of the beetles which are dead and dying after falling in the trap. I lay their carcasses in front of my vines and the 7 Ravens in the dead tree come down to feast. They then look to the vines and literally start picking them from the leaves. It was an interesting sight, but the first year vines need to have an organic systemic insecticide in them because those beast will just kill a vine. Nothing more frustrating than losing a good vine. Minimum price for a good grafted root is about $13 and it takes 2+ years to get any real fruit and about 4 for real fruit. I lose about 20% of my vines every year. I weep when adults die and mourn the young ones. Its all in the name of education so I keep doing it.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/24/2012 6:11:08 PM)

Interesting....never heard of vines attacking others.  My vines are about 4 feet apart as well. 

My concord and niagra vines are going crazy this year, some already have 4 inch shoots, many of which I have pruned off from the bottom. 

Do you find that most grapes self pollinate, or do you need two of every grape variety???

So far the Japanese beetles haven't been too insane around here....but last year I had to work hard to keep them off my apple tree.

Just ordered a Seyval Blanc, Marechal Foch and Vidal Blanc vines from an online place.  It will bring my total up to about 12 vines...



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/24/2012 6:32:06 PM)

Most fine wine grapes are hermaphrodites. My Niagra and Concord are not self pollinating and do require a male and female, which is why I ripping them out. I'm not sure about some of your varietals. When I say attacking each other, I mean growing so fast that when they touch and get tangled seemingly overnight. They seem combative in the morning when I check on them. My vines have not had the buds open or shooting out yet, which is good as a potential freeze is coming Sunday night. khmark7 are you buying grafted vines or ones that have susceptibility to phylloxera? Most of mine are from a grafted nursery, but the Chards are not.

Ohio State was money on the foul shots tonight. A great win for them.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/24/2012 7:21:34 PM)

Buying grapes from nurseries online, a seed catalog and a few from Home Depot....not exactly sure where else to find them.  Next time I'm in Michigan I might ask some of the vineyards where they get their vines...   I would really like to plant some Cabernet Franc.

Temps are projected above freezing here Sunday night....so I'm optimistic.

Glad to see a Big Ten team in the Final Four...wish it had been Wisconsin.

Have you tried making wine with any of your grapes?



BobMilton -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/24/2012 7:25:41 PM)

Come out to California and go wine tasting in Paso Robles. Stop at Tablas Creek. They'll sell you most rhone varietals as vines (grafted onto proper rootstock too!). I have one of there Syrahs growing in my backyard.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 3:35:50 AM)

http://www.graftedgrapevines.com/ggv3_order.taf   <---- Found this website....and it appears to sell grafted vines, something I will keep in mind.  Full selection as well.



ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 6:43:26 AM)

Fun thread!

Here's another resource for grape vines, for Washington at least.  http://www.idnursery.com/index.htm  I see they do sell root stock but I believe most vareitals are grown from their own stock since Washington is known to be phylloxera resistant.  There is one concord vineyard in the state known to have an infection, but it has not spread.

This site also has a good answer to how much wine comes from a vine. 


quote:



Q: How many vines do I need to make wine?

Answer: 1 ton of grapes will result in approximately 150 gallons of wine. From a typical three ton/acre crop, you can expect around 450 gallons of wine/acre. Typical vineyard spacing is 9x6, but many growers prefer high density planting, which decreases the amount of fruit per vine, and some say ultimately increases quality.

For backyard growers, each vine should produce around 7.4 lbs of fruit/vine resulting in around a half gallon of wine/vine. To make a 5 gallon carboy of wine, you’ ll need around 12-15 vines. It is often cost effective to order a bundle of 25.


I know a few backyard growers here and about 100 vines is where they started.  Next spring, assuming other ducks get in rows, I hope to plant at least a few rows.  If the stars align, I might even plant an acre or more, I have about 4 acres avialable, but that will require someone else to manage it.   I'm likely to plant Syrah, Viognier, and Riesling since the nearest vineyards to me have had most luck with those, and maybe a few experimental vines.



musedir -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 7:19:18 AM)

And we can say I knew him when...



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 3:07:22 PM)

I sent a pm to khmark& about a Cornell associated place called Grafted Grapevine Nursery. It's in the heart of the NYS Finger Lake area, with rootstock that has survived -20 degree Winters. 2 year olds cost around $12 a vine depending on the Varietal. Good website and I visited the place last year. Good old country farmers.



ob2s -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 4:20:09 PM)

The house I am waiting to close on has 10 15 year old Pinot Noir Dijon Clones, trained. I have no idea how to care for them but I am going to my best not kill them. The roots apparently go deep enough to hit a an underground stream (more like always wet), so watering is not going to be problem, over watering, maybe, but I can't really control it. I need a book.



ChrisinCowiche -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 4:47:02 PM)

I've read this book and think it's decent on vine setup and management... http://www.amazon.com/Vines-Wines-Complete-Growing-ebook/dp/B004A7YIO8

But ob2s, if I were you I'd make myself a pest at a couple of Willamette growers and pick their brains on Pinot pruning, cordon mangament, fruit drops etc... 



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/25/2012 5:03:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

I've read this book and think it's decent on vine setup and management... http://www.amazon.com/Vines-Wines-Complete-Growing-ebook/dp/B004A7YIO8

But ob2s, if I were you I'd make myself a pest at a couple of Willamette growers and pick their brains on Pinot pruning, cordon mangament, fruit drops etc... 


+1 on from vines to wines. Really good book.



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/26/2012 11:54:07 AM)

Just laid frost blankets on the rows of bigger vines. I was certain that we would be hit be brutal frost and it looks like low to mid 20's over night and 30 on Thursday night. I will be throwing hot bricks under the blankets around midnight but not close to the stocks and put on a 1 inch piece of wood as a base. I can't really do anything else, but hope this won't last. I'm glad I am close to the lake and I only have small buds on the vines. If the leaves were popping out this would kill a vine. Some nail-biting nights ahead.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/26/2012 6:30:59 PM)

Cold but not otherwise dangerous overnight lows here....just about 40F.   I have 4 inch shoots on a few vines and a hard frost would be a disaster.   Good luck with yours....keep us updated!



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/26/2012 7:16:16 PM)

I actually had to use a sh!t load of duct tape because the stupid wind was ripping the burlap frost blankets out of the ground and I feel like it's going to make me stroke out running her and there. I put in 1 hot brick (350F) on top of a piece of 2'x4', under the burlap but in the middle away from the stalks of the vine. I will reheat them again at 2am. Morning sun will be a welcome site. I hope this doesn't happen like the vineyard in "A Walk in the Clouds."



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/26/2012 11:13:42 PM)

Winds are slowing, and I just replaced the 4 bricks at 400F to their rightful places, just now. When I gathered them at 1:15am they were ice cold, but the temp is 33-34F. The winds have died down a bit, but the sky is clear and all radiant heat is being sucked away. After a dip in the 105F hot tub, I went out to change the bricks and hope they radiated some heat to save the buds on the older vines. As for the 2 year old pinot gris, they are covered in double 1 mil plastic and I hope that does the trick. Such stress over a small amount of vines seems to be silly to stroke out over. I should be posting on one bottle consumed alone, but at this point I have to have some faith that the vines will be okay. I am not a man of faith, but I've done all I can do. Hopefully the low pressure system will bring sunlight to warm the green burlap covers, and I have to hope for the best. I'm inebriated and tired of trying to save the adult vines, but hope for the best. I really hope east coast weather, but the finger lakes are screwed if the don't have propane blowers or sulphur pots lit tonight, because they will hit the low 20's before dawn. I've done the best that I can, and hope its sufficient. time for some shut eye and hope for the best. Growing is a bitch! Cie la vie!. I'm going to bed... it's after 2 am. Sun comes in 4 hours. There better not be more of these nights. Hard on the bodies constitution. I've been a bear to be around all day long. It is hard to see 5 years work go up in smoke. Maybe I need to invest in a propane heater with a blower.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/27/2012 3:33:54 AM)

Valiant job Champagne!  Where does one find burlap grape covers??  

Cold here....but still 40F.



Old Doug -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/27/2012 5:59:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

I always have to watch for late frost until Mid-May. We shall see. I've lost many vines to the brutally hard late frosts.


David - yeah - I was thinking about you, being way up there in New York state. Early springs can be fun, but heck, it's still March...



champagneinhand -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/27/2012 12:10:04 PM)

Burlap cover from Lowe's, at $13.99 per blanket with a 10' x 15' dimension or something close to it. I got the vines through the night, but pretty exhausted, from monitoring the vines until the first signs of dawn. I kept replacing bricks under the burlap and that seemed to work. Live way to close to other people for smudge pot... My blueberry bush was frost bitten pretty bad and its closer to the house. I opened a basement window that let a bit of heat out to save the raspberries. I hope the red currants, that the birds snack on is okay, otherwise they may start noticing the grapes mid-Summer. Slept until noon and consuming a bottle of Columbia Crest solo, still leaves my feeling tired.

I'm sure you can find burlap frost blankets for less, but I didn't have many options this late.



khmark7 -> RE: Growing Your Own Grapes (3/27/2012 6:05:31 PM)

Yep...yesterday the high outside of Chicago was mid 40's, today the high was mid 70's.  Gotta love Mother Nature this time of year.  She can really kick your arse!



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