visiting Catalunya

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SteveG -> visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 5:16:25 AM)
We are visiting Catalunya at the end of the year and would like to visit a winery. I don't really like most wine that I have tried from the area, but visiting a Cava producer sounds promising. I have enjoyed a good share of the Cava I have had, and understand that some producers are lately focusing on quality and local grape varieties. Does anyone have suggestions or contacts for such a producer near Barcelona which regularly offers tours in English? Other suggestions are welcome also, of course. Thanks in advance!

forceberry -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 6:02:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteveG We are visiting Catalunya at the end of the year and would like to visit a winery. I don't really like most wine that I have tried from the area, but visiting a Cava producer sounds promising. I have enjoyed a good share of the Cava I have had, and understand that some producers are lately focusing on quality and local grape varieties. Does anyone have suggestions or contacts for such a producer near Barcelona which regularly offers tours in English? Other suggestions are welcome also, of course. Thanks in advance! Most of the quality producers don't really offer tours per se - mainly it's just the few big ones like freixenet and Codorniu. However, you can visit most of the wineries if you just contact them before. Just let know you are speaking English and they'll arrange somebody who will manage. Most of the wineries aren't located right next to Barcelona, but instead the "Cava city" of Sant Sadurní d'Anoia, which is located about an hour's drive away from Barcelona. Some wineries you really should visit there are Recaredo, Agustí Torelló Mata and Raventós i Blanc - they are some of the best producers in the region and Recaredo's Reserva particular is hands down one of the greatest young sparkling wines I've ever tasted. Other wineries you might want to check out are Gramona, Loxarel and Alta Alella. These latter two are much smaller producers, but their high quality and a bit outside-the-box approach to their winemaking definitely make up for the lack of bling. And if you visit Agustí Torelló Mata and see Manel there (a big, bald guy, always smiling), tell him hi and that Otto from Finland sent you. :)

KPB -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 6:48:24 AM)
Check to see if there are any "Paradore" accommodations in the area. The Paradores are a network of historic castles and mansions converted into very fancy hotels with outstanding food. We stayed in one up in the hills above Barcelona years ago, and I still remember it vividly. Stunning places to go with stunning scenery and remarkable meals/wines.

SteveG -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 7:43:02 AM)
Thanks for both of these suggestions! I have writted Recaredo through their website, and will post their ressponse. further suggestions OK also!

fingers -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 7:52:49 AM)
Didn’t B.B. King ask the famous question, “Catalunya, Catalunya, what makes your big head so hard?” [:D]

SteveG -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 8:04:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fingers Didn’t B.B. King ask the famous question, “Catalunya, Catalunya, what makes your big head so hard?” [:D] will try to get the answer to this while I'm there...

hankj -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 8:52:32 AM)
Okay I'll be spelling guy: Catalonia If you want to annoy your travelmates by pronouncing in a way that is approximately correct, then not CAT AHH LOON EEE YAA, but rather KA (A like in taco) TA (again like taco) LOAN EEE YAA Or be even more annoying and figure out the pronunciation in Catalan, not Spanish like above ...

S1 -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 9:41:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hankj Okay I'll be spelling guy: Catalonia If you want to annoy your travelmates by pronouncing in a way that is approximately correct, then not CAT AHH LOON EEE YAA, but rather KA (A like in taco) TA (again like taco) LOAN EEE YAA Or be even more annoying and figure out the pronunciation in Catalan, not Spanish like above ... They spell it Catalunya there (in Catalan) I could be lots of help if you decide to drive into the French side.

WineGuyCO -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 10:13:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: S1 quote: ORIGINAL: hankj Okay I'll be spelling guy: Catalonia If you want to annoy your travelmates by pronouncing in a way that is approximately correct, then not CAT AHH LOON EEE YAA, but rather KA (A like in taco) TA (again like taco) LOAN EEE YAA Or be even more annoying and figure out the pronunciation in Catalan, not Spanish like above ... They spell it Catalunya there (in Catalan) I could be lots of help if you decide to drive into the French side. I was going to suggest the same thing. Just across the French border is Banyuls Sur Mer and not too much further is Languedoc/Rousillon. Some cool little towns all scattered around (Coulliore, Limoux (Bubbles), Carcassone and Ceret). A stop in Cadaques on the way out of Spain is also a must. Rick

hankj -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 10:14:09 AM)
Oh thanks - they were already operating at the highest level of annoyingness ;). Sorry, never mind, carry on!

jmcmchi -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 10:16:42 AM)
Torres is South of Barcelona - they have a good range and are set up for English-speaking Alternatively, as S1 says, going over the border to Collioure could be fun

KPB -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 1:25:04 PM)
I’m not wild about the wines in the Banyuls region, or Cassis. Stay in Spain!

S1 -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 2:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KPB I’m not wild about the wines in the Banyuls region, or Cassis. Stay in Spain! I’ll take the French ones.[:)]

ikileo -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 5:38:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: forceberry quote: ORIGINAL: SteveG We are visiting Catalunya at the end of the year and would like to visit a winery. I don't really like most wine that I have tried from the area, but visiting a Cava producer sounds promising. I have enjoyed a good share of the Cava I have had, and understand that some producers are lately focusing on quality and local grape varieties. Does anyone have suggestions or contacts for such a producer near Barcelona which regularly offers tours in English? Other suggestions are welcome also, of course. Thanks in advance! Most of the quality producers don't really offer tours per se - mainly it's just the few big ones like freixenet and Codorniu. However, you can visit most of the wineries if you just contact them before. Just let know you are speaking English and they'll arrange somebody who will manage. Most of the wineries aren't located right next to Barcelona, but instead the "Cava city" of Sant Sadurní d'Anoia, which is located about an hour's drive away from Barcelona. Some wineries you really should visit there are Recaredo, Agustí Torelló Mata and Raventós i Blanc - they are some of the best producers in the region and Recaredo's Reserva particular is hands down one of the greatest young sparkling wines I've ever tasted. Other wineries you might want to check out are Gramona, Loxarel and Alta Alella. These latter two are much smaller producers, but their high quality and a bit outside-the-box approach to their winemaking definitely make up for the lack of bling. And if you visit Agustí Torelló Mata and see Manel there (a big, bald guy, always smiling), tell him hi and that Otto from Finland sent you. :) yes i concurr with forceberry's post. I was in Sant Sadurni d'Anoia as well. I would recommend you drop the winery an email to set an appointment. I visited Recaredo and Mestres. There's also a premium chocolate brand from the town: Simon Coll. You can got a chocolate tour and sample the delicious chocolate they have. enjoy your trip!

Sourdough -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/5/2017 6:09:19 PM)
When we were in Barcelona we drove to the Priorst via Want Sadurni d'Anoia and stopped at Recaredo. Stayed at Clos Figueres in Gratallops. Planned two days of tasting with Rachel Ritchie of Travel Priorst. She is English and has lived in Gratallops for 25 years. Her business partner Ania was our guide. They got us into great wineries, usually with the owner or winemaker. Great lunch stops. Totally customized, and very reasonably priced. If you just want a day trip she can meet you at the train station and take you back at the end of the day. Highly recommended!

forceberry -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/6/2017 7:18:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jmcmchi Torres is South of Barcelona - they have a good range and are set up for English-speaking Alternatively, as S1 says, going over the border to Collioure could be fun I've been to Torres as well and I really can't recommend visiting them. They do have a big range, but not particularly good one - most of the wines are just simple and boring bulk stuff. Also, visiting the winery was more like a Disneyworld tour, pretty much far removed from the work the smaller wineries do there. I guess most of the people who visit wineries in Catalonia visit Torres, but that'd be the first one I'd cross out from my list. If you want to visit a big winery there, Parés Baltà is much better and way more interesting.

KPB -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/6/2017 7:45:02 AM)
Collioure is an attractive spot, and they have a style of grilled sardines that I find to be out of this world. But beyond that, I don't think of that corner of France as being particularly spectacular to visit. In Spain you have the Gaudi architecture, the Dali museum on the coast, all these mountain villages that one can visit with some pretty amazing food. And while the wines can be rustic, I like the regional wine style very much. The modern Spanish winemaking crowd is doing remarkable wines (not cheap, I get that part, but if you are able to stomach the prices, exceptionally good). So I myself can't see why people are advising against Spain. Spain is really nice. France is nice too, granted, but there are a lot of countries worth visiting, Spain included.

penguinoid -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/6/2017 10:19:46 PM)
I wouldn't advise against visiting Spain, but I would suggest that French Catalonia is worth visiting too. Collioure is a very pretty little town, and there is a lot to see and do locally, including some good wineries. Carcassone is within reach as a daytrip, and is worthwhile visiting. If time was short, though, I'd stick to the original plan to visit Barcelona and surrounds, and save Collioure for another trip. I guess it's all a matter of preference, really. On the drive back from Perpignan to Barcelona I passed lots of really picturesque looking medieval villages in Spanish Catalonia. I keep hoping to go back and have a look round...

WineGuyCO -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 2:26:00 PM)
Some of the best and biggest razor clams I've ever had were in The Costa Brava in Cadaques and Tossa De Mar. Excellent shrimp also. The coastal drive from Cadaques through Port Lligat, El Port de La Selva, Beleser and Llanca into France is great. You'll go through Platja Grifeu, Platja de Garbet and Portbou before entering France and into Cerbere then Banyuls sur Mer. Food isn't so bad in France either [:)][:D]. Food in France for me comes in 3rd place behind Italy and Spain. That's just me. Rick

dsGris -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 4:10:12 PM)
We spent a month with friends and family north of Barca a year ago. Son took a day trip into France with his family. We hit every stone village at least once. This is not the poor part of Spain. The interior valleys were like the Willamette or Norcal. We spent most of the time on the beach when the grand kids were visiting. We had some great meals and the wine was not half bad and cheap to boot. Love the place.[:)]

oskiwawa -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 5:04:49 PM)
okay... now you got me. Best and biggest razor clams are yelling my name. Got to get there some day quote: ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar Some of the best and biggest razor clams I've ever had were in The Costa Brava in Cadaques and Tossa De Mar. Excellent shrimp also. The coastal drive from Cadaques through Port Lligat, El Port de La Selva, Beleser and Llanca into France is great. You'll go through Platja Grifeu, Platja de Garbet and Portbou before entering France and into Cerbere then Banyuls sur Mer. Food isn't so bad in France either [:)][:D]. Food in France for me comes in 3rd place behind Italy and Spain. That's just me. Rick

penguinoid -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 5:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar Some of the best and biggest razor clams I've ever had were in The Costa Brava in Cadaques and Tossa De Mar. Excellent shrimp also. The coastal drive from Cadaques through Port Lligat, El Port de La Selva, Beleser and Llanca into France is great. You'll go through Platja Grifeu, Platja de Garbet and Portbou before entering France and into Cerbere then Banyuls sur Mer. Food isn't so bad in France either [:)][:D]. Food in France for me comes in 3rd place behind Italy and Spain. That's just me. I think, as always, it's a matter of taste (and what you're familiar with). I tried some beautiful food in Spain, but don't think I found the best places by any means, so want to go back. The razor clams sound great! One thing I like in France is the prix fixe menus. Great if, like me, you're always on a restricted budget. Oddly, these seem rare outside of France. In Italy I was a bit confused initially by the menus with antipasti, primi piatti, secondi piatti, and dolce -- which, interestingly, is quite different from the allegedly "authentic" Italian restaurants I've been to elsewhere. I was never quite certain if I was meant to be ordering four course, or three, or two. Mostly I just got one or two, and no one complained.

WineGuyCO -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 7:17:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oskiwawa okay... now you got me. Best and biggest razor clams are yelling my name. Got to get there some day quote: ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar Some of the best and biggest razor clams I've ever had were in The Costa Brava in Cadaques and Tossa De Mar. Excellent shrimp also. The coastal drive from Cadaques through Port Lligat, El Port de La Selva, Beleser and Llanca into France is great. You'll go through Platja Grifeu, Platja de Garbet and Portbou before entering France and into Cerbere then Banyuls sur Mer. Food isn't so bad in France either [:)][:D]. Food in France for me comes in 3rd place behind Italy and Spain. That's just me. Rick Razor clams are my FAVORITE thing to eat in Europe. I LOVE them. I've been known to get two orders [:D] I will go back to Tossa deMar specifically for this. There are a number of restaurants up the hill on Carrer Sant' Ramon de Penyafort looking toward the Castle. I've had razor clams in Italy (Cannolicchi) but the ones in Spain are HUGE. A little garlic, olive oil & white wine served with bread and a liter or bottle of white wine??? Heaven. My wife still talks about the shrimp she had there. She says best EVER and we've traveled a lot in Europe. We have a pact to go back there just to eat seafood. The restaurants overlook a great little beach area where they have weddings. Our favorite places by far on Costa Brava were Cadaques and Tossa de Mar. Magical. I don't remember the name of the restaurant we ate at but I'd know it if we went back. If I had to guess it was Minerva Restaurant or Zarzuela. My mouth waters thinking about it. Rick

WineGuyCO -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/7/2017 7:34:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: penguinoid quote: ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar Some of the best and biggest razor clams I've ever had were in The Costa Brava in Cadaques and Tossa De Mar. Excellent shrimp also. The coastal drive from Cadaques through Port Lligat, El Port de La Selva, Beleser and Llanca into France is great. You'll go through Platja Grifeu, Platja de Garbet and Portbou before entering France and into Cerbere then Banyuls sur Mer. Food isn't so bad in France either [:)][:D]. Food in France for me comes in 3rd place behind Italy and Spain. That's just me. I think, as always, it's a matter of taste (and what you're familiar with). I tried some beautiful food in Spain, but don't think I found the best places by any means, so want to go back. The razor clams sound great! One thing I like in France is the prix fixe menus. Great if, like me, you're always on a restricted budget. Oddly, these seem rare outside of France. In Italy I was a bit confused initially by the menus with antipasti, primi piatti, secondi piatti, and dolce -- which, interestingly, is quite different from the allegedly "authentic" Italian restaurants I've been to elsewhere. I was never quite certain if I was meant to be ordering four course, or three, or two. Mostly I just got one or two, and no one complained. Italians are used to Americans and other foreigners ordering just one dish. Italians are trained at birth to eat massive amounts of food. Sometimes I'll get a seafood antipasto or appetizer plus a main dish but never antipasto, prima, seconda then dessert. It's too much. I've done it with friends who live there but it's too much. I'm never sure what to order in France. I love their duck. 10€ prix fix lunches are fine because I'm more interested in the wine. Cassoulet in Languedoc/Roussillon is fine. Simple but great. I always get seafood on the coast. Had a duck fricasse in Chateauneuf with a nice CdP that was twice the lunch price. Pretty normal for us. Spain has amazing food. Seafood on the coast and then suckling pig (cochinillo) or baby lamb inland cooked in forno. Barcelona has this also even though it's on the coast. I usually go for Pesquera Reserva white label while there. It's 22€ in a wine store but double in restaurants. We're not budget minded on vacation. Seafood tapas in Spain is killer. I love the Jamon Iberico tapas also but there are way better things in Spain. Beef in Spain is amazing also. The best restaurants have it in their windows to check out. Great marbling. Unlike Italy where meat isn't as good. I've had some Chateaubriand in Lake Como that was decent. Also in Valpolicella but Italians eat meat super rare so if you don't like it like that you'll be sending it back. They'll look at you funny but WTF. [:)][:D][:)] Most likely you'll never see them again. [:D] Rick

KPB -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/8/2017 10:42:56 AM)
In France and Italy, large 5-course dinners mostly vanished decades ago, except for special occasions (just like in the US). Restaurants that offer 5-course tasting menus will always serve tiny portions to avoid having you feel overly full. Some places are aware that Americans actually tend to eat much more than Europeans. They would offer you a second serving if you seem to polish off the main dish very quickly. Other places don't bother with this and just serve what they consider to be sensible portions. The portion on the plate would generally be larger if you just order one dish, and smaller if that same thing comes as part of a "prix fix" menu. A really big guy might end up with a larger serving than a petite woman -- sexism is widely accepted in this form, in Europe. So there is absolutely no pressure to order a huge number of dishes. Honestly, the system is similar to what you find in restaurants here in the US. The wording may seem confusing (for example, "Entrée" means "Appetizer" in French, but for some reason it has come to mean "Main Courses" in English). But once you understand what things really mean, it works just like in any restaurant here, except that in the US we routinely get a double-sized amount of food and take the leftovers home. You can do that in France or Italy too, but it isn't nearly as common: they more often serve less, assume you'll mostly finish the plate, and that you wouldn't really want them to scrape some tiny amount of left-overs into a box to take home. But if you ask they can do it. For people on a budget, Prix Fix the way to go. You know the whole cost of your meal, they select a good combination of dishes (they always offer some choices, but a limited set), and they usually have a good but inexpensive wine to go with the food. No need to worry about surcharges or tips, since that counts right into the fixed price. Spain has a long tradition of "Tapas" where the table orders some plates to share. This is like any tapas restaurant here in the US. People invariably include some form of beans with bits of ham as one of the dishes -- it is rare for a Tapas meal to be entirely meat or fish. Usually you get a few vegetable dishes to share, and then a small number of meat/fish/egg kinds of things. Very cost-effective way to eat.

jmcmchi -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/8/2017 11:13:32 AM)
quote: The wording may seem confusing (for example, "Entrée" means "Appetizer" in French, but for some reason it has come to mean "Main Courses" in English). American English only[:)] unless it has spread across the pond in the last 20 years There is a legal requirement in France to offer a prix fixe menu. In the good old days it usually included a quarter litre of wine, beer or water (typically except on Sunday when they had a higher price menu) Everywhere it is usually cheaper to have the house wine than coke/pepsi

SteveG -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/8/2017 11:35:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ikileo yes i concurr with forceberry's post. I was in Sant Sadurni d'Anoia as well. I would recommend you drop the winery an email to set an appointment. I visited Recaredo and Mestres. There's also a premium chocolate brand from the town: Simon Coll. You can got a chocolate tour and sample the delicious chocolate they have. enjoy your trip! Thanks to all for this great discussion! I wish that my group were into more than one wine tour, but I am the only real enthusiast out of 4...so I think one winery will be the ticket. I have had great email response back and forth with Recaredo, this sounds like the place for us (chocolate helps too!) Thanks again!

penguinoid -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/8/2017 4:19:09 PM)
SteveG -- hope you enjoy your trip. Being the only wine enthusiast can make it difficult to visit too many wineries, but at least you get to see one! If you're visiting Barcelona, make certain to book any of the Gaudi-related sites (Sagrada Familia, Park Güell, etc) in advance. I was given this advice myself but ignored it. I managed to get into Sagrada Familia (just!) but the queues outside Park Güell were too much and we gave up. Entrée means appetiser in British and Australian English too, so no confusion for me there. I am very used to the French system of entrée, plat principal & desert. The Italian system of having antipasti, then primi piatti, then secondi piatti, then dolce was a little different. Mostly the servings were small enough that I could have eaten four courses, but my bank balance said no. I will have to go back to Italy again some time when I have the time to investigate the restaurants more thoroughly. I want to visit the Barolo region anyway, so that sounds like a good excuse. But then, I also want to see more of Spain, partly for that reason too. I love tapas too, though it's not really practical if you're eating by yourself. I did get to try some lovely tapas in Barcelona, even though it's not really a Catalan tradition.

SteveG -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/8/2017 5:21:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: penguinoid SteveG -- hope you enjoy your trip. Being the only wine enthusiast can make it difficult to visit too many wineries, but at least you get to see one! If you're visiting Barcelona, make certain to book any of the Gaudi-related sites (Sagrada Familia, Park Güell, etc) in advance. I was given this advice myself but ignored it. I managed to get into Sagrada Familia (just!) but the queues outside Park Güell were too much and we gave up. Entrée means appetiser in British and Australian English too, so no confusion for me there. I am very used to the French system of entrée, plat principal & desert. The Italian system of having antipasti, then primi piatti, then secondi piatti, then dolce was a little different. Mostly the servings were small enough that I could have eaten four courses, but my bank balance said no. I will have to go back to Italy again some time when I have the time to investigate the restaurants more thoroughly. I want to visit the Barolo region anyway, so that sounds like a good excuse. But then, I also want to see more of Spain, partly for that reason too. I love tapas too, though it's not really practical if you're eating by yourself. I did get to try some lovely tapas in Barcelona, even though it's not really a Catalan tradition. Thanks very much! A lot of this we are covered really well, our eldest daughter already has a couple years of architecture school under her belt, so Gaudi is a priority, 4-5 tours booked so far.

forceberry -> RE: visiting Catalunya (12/9/2017 11:00:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteveG Thanks to all for this great discussion! I wish that my group were into more than one wine tour, but I am the only real enthusiast out of 4...so I think one winery will be the ticket. I have had great email response back and forth with Recaredo, this sounds like the place for us (chocolate helps too!) Thanks again! If there is one bubbly producer that's a must-visit in Catalonia, it is definitely Recaredo. I really hope a) they take you to see their biodynamically farmed vineyards, b) you get to taste their Turó d'en Mota. It's one of the most expensive (at +$100 at the winery, even more elsewhere) Cavas in the world with really limited production (at 2000-3000 bottles per year, and they can't boost the production, because you really can't expand that 80-yo Turó d'en Mota parcel). Although I'm still convinced Reserva Particular is the best Cava Recaredo produces, even though it is "only" half the price of Turó.

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