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Claymonster -> RE: Teeny Tiny Cellar Challenge (1/23/2023 7:45:39 AM)
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Thanks for the info and recommendation everyone! This is all extremely helpful.
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ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969
Ridge Monte Bello or Dunn Howell Mountain.
Get on the mailing list for Ridge MB. Not sure of the release prices but I would be surprised if it is north of $150. You pay now but receive the bottles in two years. Secondary market prices are somewhere around $175 I think (haven’t checked lately). If you buy the older vintages, you can probably start drinking them in 5 years. Otherwise, you’ll want to wait IMO.
Older vintages of Dunn HM should be under $150 in the secondary market. Like Ridge MB, I think it needs at least 12-15 years of bottle age (hopefully in a cool environment). The risk of buying in the secondary market is provenance and not knowing how it was stored.
Thanks for the info. I signed up for the mailing list.
So about buying from the secondary market..... This would include any larger online retailer like Wine.com, Saratoga Wine, or K&L Wine Merchants, yes? Since they're dealing is high end wines, you'd assume they've thought about storage and provenance, right? Should I be concerned about buying from them?
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ORIGINAL: hankj
If I was to recommend broader categories or areas of fine wine that are fairly universal in their appeal, I would say nearly everyone likes Brunello and juicier Super Tuscans. Northern California reds in the more classic less fruit bomb style have pretty broad appeal (You could do worse than Ridge and Dunn). People don't seem to collect a lot of Douro wines, but most people seem to like them just fine, and the better ones age nicely. Same with Ribera. Champagne is widely appealing and can take a little age and improve. Most everyone likes Sauternes. High end Vouvray is broadly appealing and ages well, but isn't really expensive enough to make your cut.
Some people are out on Chateauneuf de Pape, but generally speaking you don't get a lot of haters.
Bordeaux is a really sound cellaring selection that has fairly broad appeal, although it varies from maker to maker and isn't generally popular with everyone. Generally speaking you have to like wines that are a little more serious.
Burgundy is too much of a crap shoot to buy a lot for a small cellar.
Washington can be quite polarizing, particularly the funky wines and the big forceful prestige reds.
If I were you though I wouldn't buy a lot now. Instead I would wait for the heat of the summer to see what the temperature is going to be in that cellar space. Otherwise you could end up with a couple cases of expensive wines with long aging windows and a cellar that is going to ruin them.
Thanks for the recommendations Hank. Douro is something that I hadn't thought about (or tasted much) but it seems like they can have a good QPR. I've had several CndP over the years and have enjoyed them all. And yes, I'm not buying anything until this fall and only if my passively cooled cellar works like I'm hoping.
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ORIGINAL: Ibetian
For Bordeaux, I’d try to buy the 2016, though they might be harder to find and more expensive. It is widely considered to be one of the best vintages ever and it will likely be approachable young with a decant yet age for decades.
If you can’t find 2016, both 2018 and 19 are excellent in different styles.
Here’s some 2016 I bought that roughly average your price range with what I paid:
Brane Cantenac 70
Canon 95
Cliinet 95
Ducru Beaucaillou 200
Figeac 200
Grand Puy Lacoste 79
Leoville Poyferre 110
Lynch Bages 138
Montrose 200
Pape Clement 100
Pichon Baron 150
Pontet Canet 150
Some of these will be a lot more expensive now for 2016, but about the same for 2018 or 19.
Jeff Leve, who sometimes posts on this Board has a free site called the Wine Cellar Insider with a ton of useful information on Bordeaux.
Good luck!
I think the 2018 vintage is where I'll land. Of the three (2016, 2018, 2019), the 2018 seems to have the better prices compared to ratings. The Ducru-Beaucaillou is definitely appealing, as are the Pichon Baron and Lynch Bages. I stumbled across Jeff Leve a couple weeks ago when I started looking into this and he's definitely got a wealth of info and rating. Very useful.
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ORIGINAL: S1
The problem with limiting to 20 bottles, is that you have to guess correctly to predict the apogee of each bottle. That's why most collectors buy multiples of each bottle, so that they can follow the aging process. I don't have cellar room for cases (usually), but always try to buy at least three of any wine I am planning to age.
As long as CT is around in the decades to come, I should be able to get a good sense of when to drink based on tasting notes!
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ORIGINAL: mclancy10006
I might add some Gran Reserva Rioja into the mix. Maybe not as forever as Yquem but has a 20+ year drinking window. My suggestion is a current release such as the 2001 Lopez Heredia Tondonia GR is which is sub ~$200 in the US. https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/r+lopez+de+heredia+vina+tondonia+grand+rsrv+doca+rioja+alta+spain/2001/usa
-Mark
Yes, thanks! As Hank says further down the thread, it's not for everyone so what I'll do is buy and try a Reserva from them and try it to get a sense before buying the GR.
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ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts
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I'd figure out a way to have more storage capacity, even if I had to point a little bit of money at that.
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Hank [;)]
You can buy a small 50 bottle wine fridge for $500 - $900. That way, if it gets too warm in the summer, you can simply turn the unit on.
And I'd also like to point out that EVERYONE that I know that started collecting wine completely underestimated the number of bottles they would be buying. No matter what you think now, it won't be enough. Personally, I started with a 30 bottle fridge.......then added a 50 bottle fridge......then added a 400 bottle fridge.....and I'm out of room again.[8|]
Good luck on your quest. Let us know what you decided to do.
Based on your recommendation and Hanks, I added a bit more storage capacity to the cellar (8" more height) this past weekend. I think I can get about 30 bottles in there right now. I know, I know, that's still far too small if I really want to get into collecting. If that happens, I can either buy a fridge or build a second, larger cellar. We'll see how it goes this summer because if it doesn't keep cool enough, I'll need to reevaluate the whole situation.
I'll certainly let you know what happens. Hopefully you see this thread pop up to the top of the forum late summer/early fall with a post saying that the cellar worked fine and these are the bottles I'm going to put in it.
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ORIGINAL: jmcmchi
All good points above, especially about cellar size; you will want more[:)]
But to the specific question. I would opt for three bottles of a selection of 6 or 8 wines across a range of regions/varieties, assuming that I am not doing this as an investment
Monte Bello
One left bank and
One right bank from Ibetian’s list
Chateau Musar
Don Melchor (any recent vintage)
An Oregon PN 2019
A 2019 Chateauneuf, either pure grenache or Beaucastel type(many/all permitted varieties)
A syrah from Australia or Washington (many options)
You can pretty well bet that in thirty years the contemporary wines from any of these will be completely different, and probably different varieties, given climate change impact
My wife's family is Lebanese so we're definitely going to get some Chateau Musar. As for the Oregon PN, any recommendations? Thanks for the Don Melchor recommendation because I was hoping for something from South America. Cheers!
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ORIGINAL: daviladc
+1 on Rioja! The styles can vary to your taste.
The rustic nature of the Tondonia can take you back to what old school Spanish wine once was. Like Mark noted, these wines are super rewarding after some time in your cellar. At sub $50 for a new release, you can get a lot more for the money.
You can get the 2015 CVNE Imperial Gran Reserva for sub $70 online. This will bring a little more richness and new world fruit to the table.
At these prices you can actually experience these wines as they evolve with age as compared to a nice bottle once.
Added the CVNE to the shortlist. Thanks!
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ORIGINAL: khmark7
Barolo
Stuff is sublime with age. Me and a board member opened a 50 yr old bottle in London a few years back and it was amazing. I will let others suggest producers, but i would definitely have a few bottles of Barolo for this experiment.
This whole thing started because my wife and I were talking about buying one nice bottle for our 30th wedding anniversary in 2045. So a couple weeks ago we asked a friend who knows his stuff and he suggested a Barolo that we've already purchased: 2016 Giacomo Borgogno & Figli Cannubi. Buying that bottle is what forced me to make the cellar for storage, and then once the cellar was built, we looked at all the extra space and said why not fill it up? It all depends on the summer temps though and whether the cellar will keep the bottle cool. If not, we'll ask our friend to store the Barolo for us until our 30th.
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ORIGINAL: ROEL
La Rioja Alta (the winery [8|]) also merits your interest.
Thanks Roel. I'll have a look.
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