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Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 2:09:56 PM   
kelpcowboy

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: Anacortes, WA
Status: offline 		I just opened a corked bottle of Vieux Telegraph 2007 CdP in 375 ml.  The TCA left it completely subdued and  flat.  I wanted to see how the wine was evolving so I popped a second 375 .  The second one was big and stuffed full of good things.  It will, however, take some time for it to come together.

I have had the bad fortune of several visits from the TCA monster of late and thought I might want to start a corked log.  I am also curious about where and how often it occurs.


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Post #: 1
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 2:40:50 PM   
drycab

 

Posts: 3714
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Jupiter, FL
Status: offline 		1996 Domaine Alain Burguet Gevrey-Chambertin Vieilles Vignes - TWICE!

_____________________________

"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" Edward VII

I wish I had some of that.......
I did....I drank it.......

(in reply to kelpcowboy)
Post #: 2
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 3:32:42 PM   
Old Doug

 

Posts: 8279
Joined: 5/12/2011
From: Atlanta, Georgia, US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy

I just opened a corked bottle of Vieux Telegraph 2007 CdP in 375 ml. 


Heaven forbid!  (I've got it in 750 ml.)

(in reply to kelpcowboy)
Post #: 3
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 3:38:53 PM   
oskiwawa

 

Posts: 2256
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Austin TX
Status: offline 		a couple weeks back

2003 Schubert Estate Shiraz Goose-yard Block

down the drain it went

(in reply to kelpcowboy)
Post #: 4
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 5:54:36 PM   
kelpcowboy

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: Anacortes, WA
Status: offline 		In the last couple of months we have had corked bottles of 2000 Latour, 1990 Marcoux VV and a Loire that the presenter was too upset to take out of the paper bag at our Wednesday blind tasting group. It is especially hard when it is a favorite bottle.

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A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Ratcliffe

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Post #: 5
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 8:36:55 PM   
Leomania

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/5/2011
From: Belmont, CA
Status: offline 		Opposite experience for me; no obvious signs of TCA, just plenty of brett. Mostly one particular wine with that though.

There hasn't been a lot of French or even old world wine in my cellar the last few years, but that's changing quickly. The wines you mention are all French; I wonder how others who cellar such wines have fared?

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(in reply to kelpcowboy)
Post #: 6
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 9:23:27 PM   
Pontac

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
The main thing is that you experienced the romance of opening a cork closed bottle........

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Post #: 7
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/29/2011 11:03:56 PM   
kingkanu

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 7/16/2009
From: London
Status: offline 		A Rioja Alta 904 1997' 1st bottle of a 6 pack

Over the last year, I think that's the 2nd corked bottle, out of quite a lot, so I'm not too worried at that ratio

(in reply to Pontac)
Post #: 8
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/30/2011 4:38:07 AM   
oskiwawa

 

Posts: 2256
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Austin TX
Status: offline 		Quick eyeball of notes and consumption show 414 btls of French wines consumed of the past 4 years. Average age is in the 10-15 year range. I am pretty good about noting all corked wines. Of these 6 have been recorded as corked. . I am sure there are others with slight taint that were written off as bottle to bottle variation but the end result is the same, always disappointing when it occurs but not the end of the world.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Leomania

Opposite experience for me; no obvious signs of TCA, just plenty of brett. Mostly one particular wine with that though.

There hasn't been a lot of French or even old world wine in my cellar the last few years, but that's changing quickly. The wines you mention are all French; I wonder how others who cellar such wines have fared?


(in reply to Leomania)
Post #: 9
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/30/2011 7:05:48 AM   
thesternowl

 

Posts: 1782
Joined: 2/5/2011
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline 		Last night?  Hayman & Hill Reserve Selection Zinfandel Dry Creek Valley (2004).  I picked it up earlier in the week for $6.99 so I wasn't too broken hearted...

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esse quam videri

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Post #: 10
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/30/2011 9:25:56 AM   
Tanatastic

 

Posts: 645
Joined: 7/7/2011
From: UK
Status: offline 		Having experienced all the problems associated with cork from screw caps, I'm tempted to suggest that much of the problems we encounter with bottle variation are put in there at source. And that wine is a living thing, that can do stupid things like all living things.

Of course, I've had more flawed bottles from under cork, because I drink more wines from under cork.

(in reply to thesternowl)
Post #: 11
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/30/2011 10:49:40 PM   
champagneinhand

 

Posts: 10281
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		Tantastic captured this in a nut shell. That's why we say it was a great BOTTLE, rather than a great wine, vintage, producer...etc. I look at wine a a Summer in a bottle, and try to care for my purchases the best ways I can. I also have no problems returning a corked bottle to the store. Last year I returned an '85 Charles Heisdick Rose Champ because there was no cork expansion, and while probably consumable, the bottom 1/3 of the cork was slimy. I did purchase from a well known local retailer's rare and fine wine room 3 years earlier, and had my receipt. They happily offered me store credit. I do dump a huge amount of my disposable income there, but nobody should put up with bad wine. Costco, especially in warmer climates have thousands of corked wines each year due to the heat. By from a quality store and save your receipt. I'm sure state laws are applicable, but good client relations is so important in an ever internet driven environment.

(in reply to Tanatastic)
Post #: 12
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 9/30/2011 11:05:17 PM   
Ricardo

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Ascot, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oskiwawa

Quick eyeball of notes and consumption show 414 btls of French wines consumed of the past 4 years. Average age is in the 10-15 year range. I am pretty good about noting all corked wines. Of these 6 have been recorded as corked. . I am sure there are others with slight taint that were written off as bottle to bottle variation but the end result is the same, always disappointing when it occurs but not the end of the world.



My percentage is a bit lower than that for "obvious, down the sink" corked bottles, but there have been two or three occasions where I've opened the bottle and, nothing at all.....more than dumb, just absolutely nothing. I've wondered whether this was mild TCA and my taste is not sensitive enough to detect it. Have others experienced something similar?

(in reply to oskiwawa)
Post #: 13
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/1/2011 4:46:06 AM   
caeleric

 

Posts: 3651
Joined: 9/2/2009
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		2007 Atteca Armas last night. We purchased it from a retailer two doors down from the restaurant. The retailer replaced the bottle, but with something else as the Armas was his last bottle in stock.

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The Lord says, “Wine, both old and new, is robbing my people of their senses! (‭Hosea‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬ GNB)

what i got

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 14
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/2/2011 5:31:59 PM   
Pontac

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

Having experienced all the problems associated with cork from screw caps,


All? I would hav ethought it unlikely to experience a wine tainted by TCA caused by a cork in a screwcapped wine :)

(in reply to Tanatastic)
Post #: 15
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/2/2011 5:33:52 PM   
Pontac

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

quote:

Costco, especially in warmer climates have thousands of corked wines each year due to the heat.


They may have heat damaged wines, but a 'corked' wine is one afffected by TCA and that is not a result of heat.

(in reply to champagneinhand)
Post #: 16
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/2/2011 5:38:26 PM   
Pontac

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I've opened the bottle and, nothing at all.....more than dumb, just absolutely nothing. I've wondered whether this was mild TCA and my taste is not sensitive enough to detect it. Have others experienced something similar?



Yes, that suppresion of flavour is definitely a symptom of low level TCA.

Peoples's perception of TCA varies greatly and also you get more sensitive to it with experience of it, which is not always a good thing. Wines which you'd have once drunk thinking its mybe a little funky you now know is corked and you have the challenge of whether to refuse the bottle in a restaurant to a wine waiter who may not have the same perception of TCA.

< Message edited by Pontac -- 10/2/2011 5:39:19 PM >

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 17
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/4/2011 2:45:34 PM   
Tanatastic

 

Posts: 645
Joined: 7/7/2011
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pontac


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

Having experienced all the problems associated with cork from screw caps,


All? I would hav ethought it unlikely to experience a wine tainted by TCA caused by a cork in a screwcapped wine :)


I know its from Wiki, but....

quote:

Though modern studies have shown that other factors can also be responsible for taint – including wooden barrels, storage conditionss and the transport of corks and wine

(in reply to Pontac)
Post #: 18
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/4/2011 2:58:19 PM   
kelpcowboy

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: Anacortes, WA
Status: offline 		TCA can infect an entire winery. It has an affinity for rubber hoses and preserved wood in the building itself. Bleach can actually cause it to thrive and spread. So yes, it does occur in screw cap wines and can grow in your cellar

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A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Ratcliffe

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Post #: 19
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/4/2011 4:36:56 PM   
PSirah Tampa

 

Posts: 546
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I see less than 1% corked bottles per year from my cellar, but frequently at wine tastings. I guess when you run through 50 bottles at a tasting you'll find a few.

I'm curious how many people return a corked bottle? I never have, because:

  • I buy most of my wine direct from the winery or over the internet (not from a local shop).
  • I don't keep receipts (for fear my wife might find them).
  • I guess I don't think it's worth the hassle of dealing with it.

All of my corked bottles seem to be average stuff- nothing precious. Perhaps I would be more concerned if the good stuff was corked.

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Post #: 20
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/4/2011 4:39:28 PM   
pdhall

 

Posts: 429
Joined: 1/2/2008
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		'95 Krug last night, thought I was going to cry.

(in reply to PSirah Tampa)
Post #: 21
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/4/2011 10:10:12 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 8242
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pdhall

'95 Krug last night, thought I was going to cry.





A question to you experts: Is there any risk from the use of cardboard in long term storage ? If TCA likes wood and bleach, why wouldn't cardboard boxes also be potential carriers ?

(in reply to pdhall)
Post #: 22
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/5/2011 6:31:30 AM   
recotte

 

Posts: 6866
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy

TCA can infect an entire winery. It has an affinity for rubber hoses and preserved wood in the building itself. Bleach can actually cause it to thrive and spread. So yes, it does occur in screw cap wines and can grow in your cellar


One reason cited for why fewer screwcap bottles are found with TCA is that if a winery has a bad barrel, for example, it's likely to be found in the winery and never make it to bottling; this can obviously happen at any winery, regardless of their preferred closure. The occasional bad cork... it's gonna get out there.



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Post #: 23
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/5/2011 7:36:22 AM   
caeleric

 

Posts: 3651
Joined: 9/2/2009
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte


quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy

TCA can infect an entire winery. It has an affinity for rubber hoses and preserved wood in the building itself. Bleach can actually cause it to thrive and spread. So yes, it does occur in screw cap wines and can grow in your cellar


One reason cited for why fewer screwcap bottles are found with TCA is that if a winery has a bad barrel, for example, it's likely to be found in the winery and never make it to bottling; this can obviously happen at any winery, regardless of their preferred closure. The occasional bad cork... it's gonna get out there.




i never thought of it that way. make sense.


_____________________________

The Lord says, “Wine, both old and new, is robbing my people of their senses! (‭Hosea‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬ GNB)

what i got

(in reply to recotte)
Post #: 24
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 10/5/2011 10:03:46 AM   
Pontac

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		Tanatastic

Yes, a screwcapped wine may have TCA from other sources, but its TCA will not be caused by the cork. Corks have been the major source of TCA in wine and using screwcaps removes that potential source of contamination.

(in reply to caeleric)
Post #: 25
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 11/14/2011 9:27:46 AM   
kelpcowboy

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: Anacortes, WA
Status: offline 		2008 Jones Cab Franc (WA state).  I was looking forward to this

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A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Ratcliffe

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Post #: 26
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 11/14/2011 1:23:45 PM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 2014
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Amazingly, out of 126 bottles I've opened this year, I have had zero corked ones! Usually I get one or two. I guess the year is not over, and probably the next bottle I open will be corked... 

(in reply to kelpcowboy)
Post #: 27
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 11/14/2011 1:36:36 PM   
j3w

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

My percentage is a bit lower than that for "obvious, down the sink" corked bottles, but there have been two or three occasions where I've opened the bottle and, nothing at all.....more than dumb, just absolutely nothing. I've wondered whether this was mild TCA and my taste is not sensitive enough to detect it. Have others experienced something similar?



I've had this a few times myself, most recently with the same wine as OP, a 750 of 2007 VT. Tasted like slightly dirty dishwater that someone had washed wine glasses in.

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 28
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 11/14/2011 1:47:36 PM   
cookiefiend

 

Posts: 4414
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline 		I've had 2 (out of 320 bottles) this year so far -

2007 Mount Veeder Winery Cabernet Sauvignon
2005 Fiddlehead Cellars Pinot Noir, Seven Twenty Eight Fiddlestix

Last month we had a 2004 Franciscan Magnificat that had a distinct cabbage aroma (  ) and it was distracting. It got better as the evening went on, and the fruit was still evident, but oh man - phew!
Could that have been a corked wine and I (oh, the shame) didn't know?
We had another one on Saturday and it was so. much. better. It did not have that cabbage-y thing going on.

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Post #: 29
RE: Just opened a corked bottle of .... - 11/14/2011 2:05:57 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		several lately
4 bottle vertical of Dom. Charvin CdP (05 corked)
5 bottle blind, 1 (Bordeaux) moderately corked
Saturday a 00 Guigal Hermitage SLIGHTLY corked

I'm becoming more sensitive to TCA which does NOT make me happy.


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"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

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Post #: 30
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