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RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/2/2012 1:50:29 PM

recotte

Posts: 6870
Joined: 1/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eric

I don't blame people for showing an interest. I just don't want to waste their time and don't want them to waste mine.

And my somewhat derogatory comments on self professed serial entrepreneurs have more to do with ME and what motivates me to build technology (making an impact, building something lasting). I just can't be those other guys or gals, as it's not how I'm wired.

Thank goodness!

_____________________________

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 31

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/2/2012 2:51:59 PM

pjaines

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eric

please, immediately, send Toby and PJaines to kill me.

I am glad to see Toby and myself made such a favourable impression.

_____________________________

My new DJ stuff....

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 32

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/2/2012 3:51:27 PM

Eric

Posts: 17316
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
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Yes, you boys are lethal.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 33

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/2/2012 3:55:01 PM

musedir

Posts: 23493
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From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
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Hehe.... Paul, you and your London crew have made a lasting impression on winos around the world... And most of us have yet to meet the crew!

_____________________________

"Fan the sinnking flame of hilarity with the wing of friendship; and pass the rosy wine." Charles Dickens.

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 34

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/2/2012 4:07:04 PM

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
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be very afraid

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to musedir)

Post #: 35

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/8/2012 11:09:54 AM

Eric

Posts: 17316
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

Well here is a list of new acquirees getting shut down: http://www.geekwire.com/2012/online-music-service-ilike-bites-dust

iLike, Summify, and TeachStreet.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 36

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/8/2012 1:00:57 PM

hankj

Posts: 4672
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Seattle, WA
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My example of the crash-and-burn of thriving business after massive cash influx is (or rather was) Baja Fresh. Before 2002 their food was delicious. After Wendy's bought them they fairly quickly went down in flames. The pundits cited too much competition in new markets (aka Chipotle), but if you ate Baja Fresh from the beginning, you know that it was death by the thousand cuts as Wendy's tried to take advantage of economies of scale in too many parts of the "user" experience. The salsa, for instance, became mass-produced and delivered to franchises, and so was just a tiny bit less good even though the recipe was identical and still made daily. The tortilla chips were just barely not quite as hot and crisp. Same for the meats, the tortillas, the cheeses, the individuality of service, the cleanliness of the restrooms. Quality suffered in fractional little bits spread across many areas as Wendy's implemented economies of scale. Before 2002 the food had an indefinable delicious sparkle but that "magic" faded into just another burrito.

Any one or even a few of these little economies/drops in quality would have gone unnoticed, but as an amalgam they caused the lines-out-the-door to shrink to lines, then not lines, then closing most franchises over the course of the next five years.

Anyway it seems to me that the biggest problem in ceding control of a thriving enterprise is as much not noticing (or being eroded into assenting to) a bunch of tiny marginally negative changes as some Johnny-come-lately doing one colossally stupid thing. Lightening in a bottle (har har) is a lot more tenuous than it appears, so you're certainly right to be wary of giving up total control of Cellar Tracker -- even old-hands who appear to "get it" might not, or might not this time ....

< Message edited by hankj -- 2/8/2012 1:01:26 PM >

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 37

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/9/2012 11:56:15 AM

TobyAnscombe

Posts: 1351
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Essex, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte
I can imagine that this thread would be a strong deterrent to anyone who wanted to have that "conversation" with you. And if they don't get the hint, you can always send pjaines and Toby after them. I've heard they'll work for wine.

Late to the thread - Eric is probably one of the few people we would extend credit terms to. You can rephrase that to Paul and I will work for the promise of some wine ;-)

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 38

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/9/2012 12:32:54 PM

Stirling

Posts: 2288
Joined: 1/12/2007
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline

Hi Eric,

As a Private Equity Fund Manager, let me briefly speak from the other side of the table. With few exceptions we are a breed that is driven predominantly by avarice. Money is the scorecard and our motivation is to put as many points as possible on the board, in the quickest time. We love passionate business owners and managers because their passion for what they do puts points up on the board. But look out for the day when a choice has to be made about taking a course of action that in the founders mind is great for the health of his "baby" but does not put near term points on the board. And those situations do arise.

For the most part, there is an alignment of interest between making the business great and making money. And consequently, Private Equity and other financiers can make great partners. But don't ever mis-understand their motivation. As long as you can generate enough cash flow from this business to keep you cellar stocked, go on a few vacations and contribute to your retirement plan, stay independent. Our kind of meddling can wreck your business. And too many of us, frankly, are no fun to share a glass of wine with. Please keep enjoying what you do, and keep Cellar Tracker great, and keep independent. You are making the right choice.

_____________________________

My blog: www.advinetures.ca

(in reply to TobyAnscombe)

Post #: 39

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 2/9/2012 12:53:29 PM

Eric

Posts: 17316
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
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Thank you Francis!

One of the ironic things is that it seems that a lot of finance/money people are very into wine, so they have a disproportionate interest in the space. The challenge of course is that the vast bulk of the money in wine involves buying and selling wine. Commerce is fine but is a much lower margin business than the IP business I am targeting (e.g. 90% gross margins versus 25% or whatever they might be in commerce). Wine commerce also has structural challenges (compliance etc.) as well as being a much more fragmented and crowded space.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to Stirling)

Post #: 40

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 1:56:33 PM

Eric

Posts: 17316
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From: Seattle, WA
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BTW, I should add that I have had the very good fortune to meet Jonathan Sposato (who founded and sold Picnik to Google), and I think he is perhaps considerably more frustrated than me. My comments are in no way a reflection on him but rather on the uncertainties of what can happen if you sell a small company to a large entity like Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 41

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 3:28:06 PM

champagneinhand

Posts: 10282
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
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I shudder to think... I've been in Pharma through growth spurts and down-sizing. The first downsizing was based on production , as in ends results, so I was great. Then they cut my area in half and re-downsized a year later, and because some fairness doctrine was implemented my area and its 3 reps were eliminated. Weirdly they came back at me 18 months later with a new, broke, territory and I obliged, though re-located to the West, from NY. 10 months later we merged with another large pharma company to become the worlds biggest Chem company an that was anything, but smooth. I did get a bump in job title and pay, but relocation was necessary and I was greeted by the locals in Seattle with their guns a drawn. After I proved myself, which was no easy task, they settled down.

Company politics and profitability in most publicly held corporations are messy and always in a state of flux. The worst is to lose control of something that you slaved over to perfect. Every time I got an area, back on its feet, the company wanted to leave the fixed area and go invest my soul, time and effort into another broke place. There is also no real loyalty when profits are the bottom line, and the positive growth must always win out. I think that's why many in that industry burn out or sell out. If your not climbing the corporate ladders you eventually become extinct. Not so great when raising kids. I lived through my childhood as my father was part of the beast. I at tented 3 high schools, but I learned to survive a little better with change than others. In retrospect, I do feel bad that my son went through so much change. He's just a different creature socially than I am.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 42

RE: Things that make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 5:57:40 PM

Zweder

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Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eric

So in my end of year newsletter I made a point to say: http://www.cellartracker.com/newsletter/12-27-2011.htm

quote:

I am approached all the time by people who want to invest in the site, but frankly I am not remotely interested in that and have preferred to grow the site methodically, organically, at my own pace and under my full control.

For some reason this was interpreted by many as me playing "hard to get," as the number of approaches INCREASED after I published those words to hundreds of thousands of people.

So why am I so allergic to this topic? Let me give you two examples of formerly great sites, built by small teams, that people SIMPLY LOVE, LOVE, LOVED (past tense is deliberate) and then were acquired. Here are two tales of woe:

RecipeZaar: http://troyandgay.com/2009/01/23/almost-the-end-of-recipezaar/
Picnik: http://www.geekwire.com/2012/picnik-google-plans-shutter-popular-photo-editing-service

I understand that founders want to capitalize on time, money and energy. At the same time, what is the point of KILLING yourself to build something only to sell it and then see your baby killed or sucked of its life? Frankly I can think of no greater business crime. Some businesses are meant to be small and focused.

Goodness knows, I like money. Heck, after being victimized by Bernie Madoff, the last few years have been brutally difficult. Nonetheless, to me CellarTracker is sacred, a LIVING organism that is far, far greater than the sum of me, my code, a database etc. It needs to be thriving 50 years from now, a key and increasingly INTEGRATED part of the wine industry forever more.

P.S. Yes I do actually know there is also the concept of a minority investor, and the whole topic of investment is not brutally black and white. For now however I am treating this as a purely binary decision.
P.P.S. Does anyone else have other 'great' tales of woe of similarly great sites that were screwed up by selling out? I would love to build an ever growing list to serve as a reminder every day...

Just reacting on Eric’s first post.

For me this is quite simple: Cellartracker is Eric’s baby. And you simply DON’T sell your child.

I first signed up in CT in 2005 to see what it was. In fact it was everything I was looking for, but to put my cellar online seemed a bit scary. I followed CT closely for about a year and after I got a good impression of Eric’s integrity and compassion for his baby, I decided to sign up as Zweder.

Eric, you changed my life and you are my hero. Not sure if my wife and children fully agree with this, attending so many tastings and writing so many notes ……

I hope you will never sell CT and since you will probably outlive me, I don’t worry about this.

THANK YOU!
Cheers,
Zweder.

< Message edited by Zweder -- 11/15/2012 5:58:30 PM >

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 43

RE: Things that make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 6:09:05 PM

champagneinhand

Posts: 10282
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
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May Eric always be the passionate wine guy that dreams in code. Think of it this way, Van Gogh may have been a little nutty, and so may many of the impressionists. They sold little of their art during their lifetimes, but have been etched into societies permanent memory of people that had a vision of things and rarely compromised. You are quite alive, and seem to have a loyal gaggle of people like us, forum members and people of similar minds. You have the ultimate decisions to make, and those are for you and yours. I'm glad to have been a part of this gig, for as long as I have. It's great insight and passion to steer one's own destiny. We all do it in some shape or form, yet we rarely realize it until after it's too late. Cheers Eric for your persistence.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to Zweder)

Post #: 44

RE: Things that make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 6:17:58 PM

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zweder

Just reacting on Eric’s first post.

For me this is quite simple: Cellartracker is Eric’s baby. And you simply DON’T sell your child.

I first signed up in CT in 2005 to see what it was. In fact it was everything I was looking for, but to put my cellar online seemed a bit scary. I followed CT closely for about a year and after I got a good impression of Eric’s integrity and compassion for his baby, I decided to sign up as Zweder.

Eric, you changed my life and you are my hero. Not sure if my wife and children fully agree with this, attending so many tastings and writing so many notes ……

I hope you will never sell CT and since you will probably outlive me, I don’t worry about this.

THANK YOU!
Cheers,
Zweder.

Hey man--been missing you!

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to Zweder)

Post #: 45

RE: Things that make my skin crawl... - 11/15/2012 6:23:18 PM

Zweder

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline

[/quote]
Hey man--been missing you!
[/quote]

What do you mean?.... I'm here almost every day...... hmmm.... well maybe not on the forum....

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 46

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 8:43:23 AM

Eric

Posts: 17316
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

So one cool thing is that Picnik has been reborn as PicMonkey: http://www.picmonkey.com/
I think the founders felt just as bad. Good for them!

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 47

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 12:42:52 PM

musedir

Posts: 23493
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From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
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I'm relatively new to the Forum but it is Eric's integrity and the quality of the product that has made me an ardent follower. In this regard I gravitated to the new CT format pretty quick after introduction. Frankly, it just keeps getting better. The Forum is just the icing on the cake in conversing with fellow winos from time to time.

_____________________________

"Fan the sinnking flame of hilarity with the wing of friendship; and pass the rosy wine." Charles Dickens.

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 48

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 2:42:50 PM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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My impression is that most web properties just can't help but become evil when they accept investors. By definition, investors seek a return on their investment, so it is one of those devil's bargains where you accept filthy lucre, oceans of the stuff, but at the price of some giant of the 3-tier system taking over CT and trying to use it to merchandise Livingstone Chablis Blanc or some other fine high margin product line....

Eric, that's why you need an investor... like me! Someone who would care about the image you've built, and would only accept advertising if it was strictly necessary. Really. I would just love to send oceans of money your way, in exchange for the honor -- the privilege -- to simply associate my name with your brand. And true, I might want a controlling share, but I need you to know -- I would never, never want to use that control. Like Dustin Hoffman in Chef. Hands totally off. Scout's honor!

(Well, I was never a scout, but you know what I mean.)

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 49

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 3:23:19 PM

BobMilton

Posts: 2877
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From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: offline

Actually, if Eric ever decided to sell he should sell it to all of us. Who else loves this place as much as we do?

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 50

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 6:49:52 PM

drycab

Posts: 3714
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Jupiter, FL
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The Inmates Running the Asylum?!?!?!
I don't know about that!

_____________________________

"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" Edward VII

I wish I had some of that.......
I did....I drank it.......

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 51

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/16/2014 7:14:29 PM

skifree

Posts: 3410
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From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline

Benign dictatorship is always the most efficient form of government.

Long live Eric.

_____________________________

So much wine, so little time

(in reply to drycab)

Post #: 52

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/17/2014 9:29:54 AM

BobMilton

Posts: 2877
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From: Newbury Park, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drycab

The Inmates Running the Asylum?!?!?!
I don't know about that!

Best is letting Eric do what he does so well. But, if the Chinese offered a ton of money, I'd rather see the inmates around here take over.

(in reply to drycab)

Post #: 53

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/17/2014 3:26:05 PM

champagneinhand

Posts: 10282
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton

quote:

ORIGINAL: drycab

The Inmates Running the Asylum?!?!?!
I don't know about that!

Best is letting Eric do what he does so well. But, if the Chinese offered a ton of money, I'd rather see the inmates around here take over.

I've been to countries where the inmates are running the asylum and its really bad. When they aren't quashing fires their is anarchy and retribution everywhere. I hope that Chaos never runs amok in this site. Very happy to have the current status quo.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 54

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/17/2014 4:09:26 PM

BobMilton

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton

quote:

ORIGINAL: drycab

The Inmates Running the Asylum?!?!?!
I don't know about that!

Best is letting Eric do what he does so well. But, if the Chinese offered a ton of money, I'd rather see the inmates around here take over.

I've been to countries where the inmates are running the asylum and its really bad. When they aren't quashing fires their is anarchy and retribution everywhere. I hope that Chaos never runs amok in this site. Very happy to have the current status quo.

I was imagining the Chinese who bought the Wine Advocate buying Cellar Tracker. Not chaos, but nothing I would want either. I agree, lets leave Eric as overlord and master.

(in reply to champagneinhand)

Post #: 55

RE: Things at make my skin crawl... - 6/17/2014 5:15:02 PM

Chip Merlot

Posts: 529
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From: NJ
Status: offline

Eric, thank you for your position and fortitude. I'm reminded of two things:

First, what we were reminded of this week with the great Tony Gwynn, who passed up millions of dollars in free agency to stay with the team that he wanted to stay with.

Second, a great article on disruptive innovation in the new New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/06/23/140623fa_fact_lepore?currentPage=all) wraps up with this insight on investors and startups: "The upstarts who work at startups don’t often stay at any one place for very long. (Three out of four startups fail. More than nine out of ten never earn a return.) ... They are told that they should be reckless and ruthless. Their investors, if they’re like (venture capitalist) Josh Linkner, tell them that the world is a terrifying place, moving at a devastating pace. “Today I run a venture capital firm and back the next generation of innovators who are, as I was throughout my earlier career, dead-focused on eating your lunch,” Linkner writes. His job appears to be to convince a generation of people who want to do good and do well to learn, instead, remorselessness. Forget rules, obligations, your conscience, loyalty, a sense of the commonweal. If you start a business and it succeeds, Linkner advises, sell it and take the cash. Don’t look back. Never pause. Disrupt or be disrupted."

There you have it. Thank God the founders of the world's great companies didn't have bozos like this advising them however many decades ago.

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 56

RE: Things that make my skin crawl... - 6/18/2014 8:47:51 AM

pbilling

Posts: 334
Joined: 1/17/2012
From: Southwest Michigan
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If EVER there is a money issue that would have you even THINK about outside investors, I'm pretty sure a one sentence posting of "I'm running into money issues" on this forum would solve it within hours with no strings attached. I know you could triple my fee's and I wouldn't even blink.

Keep fighting the good fight and make the product YOU want.

Paul

_____________________________

The secret to enjoying a good wine.
1. Open the bottle and allow to breathe
2. If it doesn't look like it's breathing, give it mouth to mouth.

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 57