CellarTracker Main Site
Register for Forum | Login | My Profile | Member List | Search

Buyer Beware Maison Ilan

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Buyer Beware Maison Ilan Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 7:15:49 AM   
lenbo

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/28/2012
Status: offline 		A warning about doing business with Ray Walker of MAison Ilan in Nuit St George. He does not deliver wines as promised. Yes I've gotten some delivery but not until a lot of broken promises and out right lies and much work on my part. At this point I have asked him to refund my monies. He will not return several weeks worth of emails.
Be very cautious.

Lenny Feinberg
Post #: 1
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:25:48 AM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

Posts: 7845
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		If you don't believe Lenny, and have a spare few days to spend reading, look here...

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100335


Welcome to the forum Lenny, I hope you get resolution with Maison Ilan.

_____________________________

http://www.cellartracker.com/new/user.asp?iUserOverride=102173

(in reply to lenbo)
Post #: 2
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:54:40 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23493
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		Boy, this does not sound good at all. Ray is way beyond first issues and import protocols.

_____________________________

"Fan the sinnking flame of hilarity with the wing of friendship; and pass the rosy wine." Charles Dickens.

(in reply to ChrisinCowiche)
Post #: 3
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:54:42 AM   
lenbo

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/28/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks Chris.

Wow I see I'm not the only one with issues from Maison Ilan. I dealt directly with Ray Walker. I'm so sorry I got involved. I've asked for a refund of my monies several times. He ignores the requests. Worst of all I had a friend buy wines too. I feel responsible for his eventual loss. A good lesson I guess.

(in reply to ChrisinCowiche)
Post #: 4
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 9:05:15 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3599
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		It is unfortunate. Being a finance guy, I was pulling for Ray. It sounds like the actions of a business that was under-capitalized and some bad luck with nature. I hope everyone is made whole and Maison Ilan continues.

(in reply to lenbo)
Post #: 5
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 9:13:32 AM   
smigdiggler

 

Posts: 3589
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Napa Valley
Status: offline 		I have been silent for a while, but my many emails have gone unresponded to. Compared to many of you, I am out 1 magnum of the 09. I am saddened if it has come to this, as I visited him about a year and a half ago.

Thinking positive thoughts that things will clear up soon.

-dave

_____________________________

Semi retired from the wine business, but can't seem to let go of opportunities when they present themselves

PlaywrightWines on Instagram

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 6
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 9:51:57 AM   
mye

 

Posts: 2317
Joined: 3/26/2009
From: Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		The MI thread on Wine Berserkers has reached iconic status.. what a cluster f@#$..

I was really hoping to win that MI bottle on fantasy football this year.. just so i can taste what the hype was about!

(in reply to smigdiggler)
Post #: 7
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 10:13:16 AM   
mjobtx

 

Posts: 1250
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Plano, TX
Status: offline 		I find this thread very interesting because of my personal experience with Ray. That experience led me not to purchase his wines. My wife and I were traveling in the Burgundy region in October 2012. Prior to traveling I set up appointments to meet several wine makers including Ray. When I arrived at Ray's place at the appointed time, it took quite some time for him to come to the door. When he did, he looked exhausted and he told me his daughter had been sick all night and that he would not be able to visit. Perfectly understandable. I told him I was sorry we wouldn't be able to visit while we were in the region.

He asked if we could come back two days later and he set a time. We had planned to be elsewhere that day but we agreed to delay our departure to be able to visit with Ray. We went back on the appointed day and day and no one answered the door. We left disappointed but informed about the way he does business. Mason Ilan was quickly stricken from my list.

I didn't post anything at the time because I had thought it might be an anomaly but this suggests follow up is not his strong suit. Neither is keeping appointments.

< Message edited by mjobtx -- 1/21/2015 10:14:22 AM >

_____________________________

PlanoWino

(in reply to mye)
Post #: 8
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 11:10:04 AM   
Robert Pavlovich

 

Posts: 1955
Joined: 2/10/2012
From: West Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Interesting to hear new stories, when just a short while ago a new e-mail was put out to try and smooth things over.

I always kind of thought buying wines two years ahead from a new producer (an American in Burgundy none the less) was a doubtful proposition. Yet it was the trendy thing to do and he even got on TV, it was hard to escape the buzz. I was about ready to load in on the '12s a couple years ago when I missed Ray's call at one of our local CT gatherings at WCC. Luckily before reconnecting with Ray I spoke to my wife and she convinced me to pass. To quench my curiosity I grabbed a couple '11 Charmes Chambertin from Woodland Hills and was underwhelmed by the first bottle of two. Amid all the hype, fingers was good enough to open an '09 Charmes Chambertin for a few of us, and I didn't care for that bottle either. I imagine his '10s are pretty good, such a strong vintage, but this has been a crazy story to track. A movie could be made.

_____________________________

"Blending muddles the message"

-The Burgundian Monks

(in reply to mjobtx)
Post #: 9
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 2:22:26 PM   
AMO

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 9/23/2014
From: New Mexico
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

It is unfortunate. Being a finance guy, I was pulling for Ray. It sounds like the actions of a business that was under-capitalized and some bad luck with nature. I hope everyone is made whole and Maison Ilan continues.


Without trying to "pile on" to Mr. Walker's misfortunes, I wouldn't exactly call him a "finance guy". Being a broker trainee is a very small step toward becoming a "finance guy". I was one myself ("a finance guy"), although not a broker; none of the paths to success in finance are easy, and all of them require hard work and commitment.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 10
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 2:33:36 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		I received my 11's (very late and at ridiculous shipping charges).
We'll see about the 12's
Ray has completely screwed with the trust of the people who supported him on several wine forums. He doesn't return messages and has not delivered on promises of timelines, or even of available stock.

Until I get the personal attention and contact I received when he was taking my money, I'm out.
To anyone gullible enough to buy in at this point, I wish you lots of luck.

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to AMO)
Post #: 11
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 2:48:35 PM   
ShawnM789

 

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Does anyone know what the time frame is to do a credit card dispute? I may call mine to just see time frame. But I'm also glad to hear this now, I will now pass on the next release. Pretty disappointing

< Message edited by ShawnM789 -- 1/21/2015 3:43:10 PM >

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 12
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 4:45:32 PM   
annerk

 

Posts: 6122
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShawnM789

Does anyone know what the time frame is to do a credit card dispute? I may call mine to just see time frame. But I'm also glad to hear this now, I will now pass on the next release. Pretty disappointing


90 days to six months, although AmEx helped me out a year later with a fraud situation.

_____________________________

https://www.instagram.com/whattheducktravel

(in reply to ShawnM789)
Post #: 13
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 5:57:57 PM   
markandsusanw

 

Posts: 882
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

Until I get the personal attention and contact I received when he was taking my money, I'm out.
To anyone gullible enough to buy in at this point, I wish you lots of luck.



^^^ This right here is the key.

I feel lucky that these were above my price point, because I did look at the offerings in the initial hype phase. And I've read the WB thread, on and off, with horror. Of course, I have my own problems with wish-I-knew-then-what-I-know-now-purhases -- hello, Vinotemp! -- but at least I dodged this bullet. Condolences and hope for resolve for those who didn't.

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 14
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 6:18:35 PM   
mwest

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 9/25/2010
From: The North
Status: offline 		I received my 11's after endless delays and no responses to my inquiries. When I received the most recent email offer I promptly unsubscribed. My view is that wine is a luxury and that I need not support anyone who is not a pleasure to interact with. The reality is that I don't have enough funds to allocate to everyone I would like to... so it is pretty easy to make the cut list :)

(in reply to markandsusanw)
Post #: 15
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 7:29:26 PM   
ericindc

 

Posts: 2082
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: District of Columbia
Status: offline 		I have to admit, i have a 1/2 case each of 2012s and 2013s outstanding. We shall see. At the end of the day, its not enough money to make me as angry as some but I always view wine as essentially a gamble anyways. I do have to backfill some 2012s just in case I never get them though.

_____________________________

-Eric
Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

(in reply to mwest)
Post #: 16
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 7:37:10 PM   
brigcampbell

 

Posts: 2483
Joined: 2/16/2009
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Status: offline 		Yeah, the thread in WB is an atrocity. I have many friends wrapped in that mess, fortunately, not me.

I have tasted ONE of Ray's wines and would have been upset if I had paid $40 for it much less the $135+ that shows in CT. Full disclosure: I tasted this blind and it was before the $#|+ hit the fan. There were serious burgheads at this tasting as mentioned below, me not being one of them.

2009 Maison Ilan Charmes-Chambertin Aux Charmes Hautes - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Charmes-Chambertin Grand Cru (6/18/2012)
Cali and Burgs Blind (FMIII in the OC): Blind - guessed burg correctly. Boy was this wine a topic of conversation for the burgheads after the unveiling, whew. Some thought is was slightly flawed, some though it was disjointed, some like me thought "just OK". Very interested debate by those in the know.

Rank: #3 of 4 in Second Flight
Posted from CellarTracker

_____________________________

Sincerely,

-brig campbell

(in reply to mwest)
Post #: 17
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:03:26 PM   
BornToRhone

 

Posts: 3131
Joined: 2/14/2012
From: The Big D, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brigcampbell
Yeah, the thread in WB is an atrocity. I have many friends wrapped in that mess, fortunately, not me.


I was certainly disappointed in Ray's lack of communication, disorganization, and apparent lack of responsibility. A good business man he appears to be not.

I was also utterly dismayed at the vehemence and personal vendetta a few folks had towards Ray, when they had not even bought any wines from Ray and had no skin in the game. All they preceded to do was get in the way and cloud the conversations of those seeking information.

All-in-all, there were zero winners in that game...

Hence....that's why I love you guys over those Beserkers!!

< Message edited by BornToRhone -- 1/21/2015 8:05:50 PM >

_____________________________

-- The answer may not lie at the bottom of a bottle of wine, but you should at least check. --

(in reply to brigcampbell)
Post #: 18
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:17:46 PM   
caeleric

 

Posts: 3651
Joined: 9/2/2009
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		read a little bit. seems like an awful situation. seems like there should be SOME legal recourse somewhere if the wines are never delivered.

_____________________________

The Lord says, “Wine, both old and new, is robbing my people of their senses! (‭Hosea‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬ GNB)

what i got

(in reply to BornToRhone)
Post #: 19
RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:18:16 PM   
River Rat

 

Posts: 1338
Joined: 4/29/2010
From: Forestville, CA
Status: offline 		My one experience with MI wine was a disappointment.

  • 2009 Maison Ilan Morey St. Denis 1er Cru Les Chaffots - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Morey St. Denis 1er Cru (1/4/2015)
    Sunday gathering, Benji visits Wine Country (Napa Valley Wine & Cigar): Poor storage or closure failure, cork wet right to top. Nose was all brett, no fruit, or acidity, muted rose petal water. Very poor showing. NR (flawed)[/list]
    Posted from CellarTracker

    (in reply to BornToRhone)
    • Post #: 20
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/21/2015 8:21:29 PM   
    BornToRhone

     

    Posts: 3131
    Joined: 2/14/2012
    From: The Big D, Texas
    Status: offline     		^. That blows....

    _____________________________

    -- The answer may not lie at the bottom of a bottle of wine, but you should at least check. --

    (in reply to River Rat)
    Post #: 21
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 4:29:44 AM   
    ShawnM789

     

    Posts: 828
    Joined: 2/8/2010
    From: New Hampshire
    Status: offline     		Agree, hopefully we get what we paid for with-in a respectable timeframe.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: caeleric

    read a little bit. seems like an awful situation. seems like there should be SOME legal recourse somewhere if the wines are never delivered.



    < Message edited by ShawnM789 -- 1/23/2015 5:26:48 AM >

    (in reply to caeleric)
    Post #: 22
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 7:45:57 AM   
    ericindc

     

    Posts: 2082
    Joined: 7/6/2012
    From: District of Columbia
    Status: offline     		I suppose it would be nice to have some legal recourse, but what are the options, sue in french court? I got my '11s, I still have alot of outstanding '12 burgundy from other producers, so I will just wait and see.

    _____________________________

    -Eric
    Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

    (in reply to ShawnM789)
    Post #: 23
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 7:54:19 AM   
    ksmith

     

    Posts: 163
    Joined: 10/1/2006
    From: Cleveland, Ohio
    Status: offline     		My sympathies to all who are involved. I signed up at one point and got his email, but when I tried to order a few bottles, I was told I needed to make a larger order to get any. Instant drop! Turns out to have been very fortuitous. I did pick up a bottle from a retailer just to "try one out". I now have low expectations.

    (in reply to ericindc)
    Post #: 24
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 4:02:34 PM   
    BornToRhone

     

    Posts: 3131
    Joined: 2/14/2012
    From: The Big D, Texas
    Status: offline     		SH and I actually met him over in NSG, France back in 2013 and we tasted in his little cellar there. Initially, he was running a bit late - had to run his daughter somewhere. Seemed like a nice enough guy to chat with. We talked about his plans for the place, building a garage/barn for a place to work out of the rain, etc. Very small space, though.

    For some reason, I did not even ask to purchase any futures, or to ask for any bottles. Guess I lucked out.

    Next opportunity, I will perform an ISO audit and go over his order fulfillment processes in detail!

    _____________________________

    -- The answer may not lie at the bottom of a bottle of wine, but you should at least check. --

    (in reply to ksmith)
    Post #: 25
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 5:16:59 PM   
    mtpisgah

     

    Posts: 3570
    Joined: 6/7/2012
    From: South Carolina
    Status: offline     		I ordered the 2012's and planned to order 2013's. But he never responded to my order and multiple follow up emails. I suppose they will arrive one day and I will experience both Premier Cru and Garagiste at the same time.

    < Message edited by mtpisgah -- 1/23/2015 10:46:42 AM >

    _____________________________

    Paul

    I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

    (in reply to BornToRhone)
    Post #: 26
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 5:57:54 PM   
    khmark7

     

    Posts: 11424
    Joined: 7/6/2008
    From: Chicago suburbs
    Status: offline     		Had no real issues with my 2011's, other than the typical delay (which was better than most). Tried the Volnay and thought it was good.

    2012 & 2013 are outstanding.

    Would be surprised if he offered 2014 to a mailing list. Might be best for him to sell to brokers and put this headache behind him.

    As for the wines inherit quality what did people expect? Chrisinsunnyside almost has as much experience.

    Hoping for the best.

    _____________________________

    "a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

    (in reply to mtpisgah)
    Post #: 27
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/22/2015 8:12:45 PM   
    champagneinhand

     

    Posts: 10282
    Joined: 5/30/2011
    From: Upstate New York, California born.
    Status: offline     		Don't hate me, but have any of you made wine from purchased grapes? Even in small amounts it is not an easy task or any reason to drop the people you know that are making great wine. I get that wanting to support an American abroad and a guy that came onto the forum etc, but we have to be realists as well, knowing that Burgundy is one of the hardest wines to make, period and that people in business in a foreign country with the changes that have happened economically in the past 8 years, meant that risk was way bigger on an unknown than a well known. I get pulling for the underdog, I am there in spirit but not in wallet.


    Ray is probably a great guy, has made great wine in the past, but there are so many variables, in France of all places. Remember that when Ray started this endeavor that it was under a government leaning a bit right for the first time in a long time. I again wen't towards the socialists and the EU has made some dreadful decisions. I haven't bought truckloads of my wine in full futures, but much in pre-arrival and through credit card as to back up said purchases. Yes it sucks when something doesn't come through but in Burgundy, I am sure that Ray has been going nuts. Imagine how trying to communicate to a world of futures buyers any of the average bad luck things could happen in doing business in Burgundy as an american. I know he has tried to help the newer americans in the area but business is rough anywhere.

    I do feel bad for Ray and his advocates as all have had some tarnishing. It sucks but like any investment where you could have reaped great benefits from, you have to dust yourselves off and hope it didn't break you. My whites from last year have had some yeast reactivate carbonating the rest and changes the sugar content. It sucks but thats why I don't do it for a living. I can still use it for cooking.

    I don't think this is a place where we should jump on entrepreneurs that people became enamored with without knowing all of the data. It was a risk. if it has wrecked somebody, maybe we can crowd fund that person back o some financial health. I know smug, the boys from rasa and Scott (hollowing) have put their names on the line several times as have Yodaddyyo, having to actually close up his custom crush operations. Such is the nature of the business.

    We all have heard to make a pile of money in the wine bus, you need to start with a much bigger pile. I am not try to lecture anybody pr belittle your loss, but I am pretty sure we all knew the risk. I hate to see a dogpile and that is what this is slowly becoming. Clearly this has been rehashed over on WB, so I don't see anything but more camaraderie which is a given over here.

    Okay now you all that lost can be hating on me.

    _____________________________

    As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

    (in reply to khmark7)
    Post #: 28
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/23/2015 9:33:39 AM   
    mjobtx

     

    Posts: 1250
    Joined: 11/20/2004
    From: Plano, TX
    Status: offline     		I disagree champagneinhand. This is exactly the place to share our experiences so that others can learn from them. Whether it is wine, wine makers, shippers, storage, or any other wine related topic this forum has always been dedicated to sharing.

    _____________________________

    PlanoWino

    (in reply to champagneinhand)
    Post #: 29
    RE: Buyer Beware Maison Ilan - 1/23/2015 9:42:43 AM   
    BRR

     

    Posts: 1846
    Joined: 9/1/2009
    From: Seattle, WA
    Status: offline     		First, I have no iron in this fire. I've not bought anything from him, but have lost no money.

    I, too, have to disagree, CIH. Like mjobtx says above, I think this is exactly the right place to share this discussion. Piling on will be natural. After all, people lost money and, in some cases, a decent chunk of it.

    If someone bought a material good from any other reputable retailer, even if it was to be delivered in he future, and that product didn't show up, one would be rightfully angry. Exchanging money for a good to be delivered is a contract. Non-delivery and non-refunding is a breach of that contract. One would want to be made whole, either buy receiving said purchased good, or getting one's money back. I don't think there is anything even remotely wrong with that. To further exacerbate the situation, if said retailer went radio silent, there would be a very justifiable and understandable reaction from those purchasers. Sure, none of us truly know what is going on at M.I., but I don't think it's fair to fault anyone who's angry and calling into question the person's integrity. At all.

    < Message edited by BRR -- 1/23/2015 9:45:10 AM >

    _____________________________

    Cheers!

    (in reply to mjobtx)
    Post #: 30
    Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
    All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Buyer Beware Maison Ilan Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
    Jump to:





    New Messages No New Messages
    Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
    Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
     Post New Thread
     Reply to Message
     Post New Poll
     Submit Vote
     Delete My Own Post
     Delete My Own Thread
     Rate Posts


    Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

    0.152