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ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

Rick, as a PDC (Purple Dranking Cretin) who favors a New World ripe profile, you should look for some bottles with a decade or more on them to see how Brunello ages. 2007 was a very good year in Italy, without being hugely tannic or having searing acidity, so they're VERY drinkable with a few hours of decanter time. 2000 and 2001 also fit this profile, '01 moreso than '00. You can easily find 1997 and 1998 too, and they're worth trying. All of them will still be relatively fresh, except you might pay a premium for the '97 vintage. All that being said, I think 2004 is the best vintage of the last 2 decades and many Italian wines from that year should be just entering a nice window unless they're tannic monsters.

You should skip 2002 and most of 2003, along with 2005. '02 is a horrendous year, and there's too much inconsistency with '03 and '05. 1999 might still need a lot of time as it was a bold tannic vintage.

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ORIGINAL: KPB

I visited Montalcino in December (a miserable period for visiting there, cold and muddy, and the leaves are all down...). I spent a day with a local producer, Matt Fioretti, the winemaker at Cerbaiona. We tasted a number of wines during the day, including his 2012 and 2013s and 2014s, the latter from barrel, and the 2015. Then tasted wines at some neighbors. I was pretty impressed and I wouldn’t say that the distinction in style some reviewers have reported was evident to me. Neither vintage was as lush and fruit forward as the 2010s were on release, but both seem to have been outstanding for that area.

And I do plan to buy 2012 Brunello. My cellar is kind of full, but if I had room, I would certainly get a few cases. As it is, I’ve ordered a few bottles of top wines. Wonderful stuff!

At lunch, Matt tried to convince me that Cerbaiona should be consumed fairly young, within ten years or so of being bottled. He did this by opening some older bottles. Honestly, I was actually not convinced at all. But I wouldn’t say that Sangiovesi is a grape that blossoms with age. With age the fruit recedes and the acidity becomes a bit more evident, but the nose evolves and gains spicy complexity and floral dimensions that aren’t so obvious in the young, rather primary wines soon after release. Matt felt that by age 20 a kind of rancio tone creeps into the nose, and that the acidity can be a little shrill. I get that, but I would have called these secondary to the main story. Still, Matt has a point. Based on my mini vertical, I would say that these wines hit a peak fairly early, maybe within 15 years, and in the case of 2010, the wines have actually been amazing to drink right from the get-go and haven’t shut down either, at least from my cellar.

I’ve been drinking some of the 2006 Brunello from my cellar, and they seem as good as they are likely to get. Sort of confirms my impressions that age 11or 12 is the start of the peak drinking period for these wines.

In our modern world, nobody really buys wines to cellar for twenty years in any case, so Brunello seems like a perfect choice...

So while 2012 and 2013 are both outstanding vintages as far as my limited exposure lets me extrapolate, I would also say that that neither is as lush as 2010 was on release, and that while 2010 was perhaps already at a kind of early peak on release, 2012 will want two or three years in the cellar, and 2013 might, too. But both would seem capable of aging for a long time, despite what the winemaker may say! Neither is likely to still be gaining in complexity and quality by age 20, but both may still be really delicious...

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

I find 10 plus years is the sweetspot for Brunello.

Rick

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At lunch, Matt tried to convince me that Cerbaiona should be consumed fairly young, within ten years or so of being bottled. He did this by opening some older bottles. Honestly, I was actually not convinced at all. But I wouldn’t say that Sangiovesi is a grape that blossoms with age. With age the fruit recedes and the acidity becomes a bit more evident, but the nose evolves and gains spicy complexity and floral dimensions that aren’t so obvious in the young, rather primary wines soon after release. Matt felt that by age 20 a kind of rancio tone creeps into the nose, and that the acidity can be a little shrill. I get that, but I would have called these secondary to the main story. Still, Matt has a point. Based on my mini vertical, I would say that these wines hit a peak fairly early, maybe within 15 years, and in the case of 2010, the wines have actually been amazing to drink right from the get-go and haven’t shut down either, at least from my cellar.

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ORIGINAL: ob2s

$32 BdM

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ORIGINAL: hankj

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At lunch, Matt tried to convince me that Cerbaiona should be consumed fairly young, within ten years or so of being bottled. He did this by opening some older bottles. Honestly, I was actually not convinced at all. But I wouldn’t say that Sangiovesi is a grape that blossoms with age. With age the fruit recedes and the acidity becomes a bit more evident, but the nose evolves and gains spicy complexity and floral dimensions that aren’t so obvious in the young, rather primary wines soon after release. Matt felt that by age 20 a kind of rancio tone creeps into the nose, and that the acidity can be a little shrill. I get that, but I would have called these secondary to the main story. Still, Matt has a point. Based on my mini vertical, I would say that these wines hit a peak fairly early, maybe within 15 years, and in the case of 2010, the wines have actually been amazing to drink right from the get-go and haven’t shut down either, at least from my cellar.

Ken thanks for this. Debatable characterization, but very clearly articulates my loose, mostly un-examined impressions of the Brunello aging curve. Like Matt, for me Brunello's window is a narrow one - has to be old enough to scrub down the tannins, but the "rancio" aspect sets in pretty quickly too. I get the feeling that some of mine from firmer years (like '10, the big wines from '06) might never actually hit the post-mouth full of oak splinters, pre-rancio window I favor, but rather wood and rancio will overlap.

Again all debatable, but I think it can be safely said that, unlikely BDX for instance, once you feel happy about a given Brunello that's your window; don't be afraid to start drinking it up because your window closes sooner than you think.

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

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ORIGINAL: hankj

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At lunch, Matt tried to convince me that Cerbaiona should be consumed fairly young, within ten years or so of being bottled. He did this by opening some older bottles. Honestly, I was actually not convinced at all. But I wouldn’t say that Sangiovesi is a grape that blossoms with age. With age the fruit recedes and the acidity becomes a bit more evident, but the nose evolves and gains spicy complexity and floral dimensions that aren’t so obvious in the young, rather primary wines soon after release. Matt felt that by age 20 a kind of rancio tone creeps into the nose, and that the acidity can be a little shrill. I get that, but I would have called these secondary to the main story. Still, Matt has a point. Based on my mini vertical, I would say that these wines hit a peak fairly early, maybe within 15 years, and in the case of 2010, the wines have actually been amazing to drink right from the get-go and haven’t shut down either, at least from my cellar.

Ken thanks for this. Debatable characterization, but very clearly articulates my loose, mostly un-examined impressions of the Brunello aging curve. Like Matt, for me Brunello's window is a narrow one - has to be old enough to scrub down the tannins, but the "rancio" aspect sets in pretty quickly too. I get the feeling that some of mine from firmer years (like '10, the big wines from '06) might never actually hit the post-mouth full of oak splinters, pre-rancio window I favor, but rather wood and rancio will overlap.

Again all debatable, but I think it can be safely said that, unlikely BDX for instance, once you feel happy about a given Brunello that's your window; don't be afraid to start drinking it up because your window closes sooner than you think.

I completely agree with this. My experience has also been that they can start and lose fruit very quickly at a certain age. Case in point is 2 bottles of 2007 Altesino Brunello that I drank in the last two weeks. Now Altesino is not a long ager to begin with so you need to know the producer. That being said, I wouldn't have thought that the wine would be losing fruit so soon and that the rancio notes on the nose would be present in a wine this young.

Uccelliera on the other hand, is a long ager and so this is more difficult to drink when young. Especially in tannic years like 2010. Some of the 2010's like Altesino are enjoyable right now and Uccelliera is not. It's completely closed, tannic and devoid of much fruit. It's there, it's just buried.

The 2007 Altesino could have also been heat cooked which would account for the early maturation. I bought from a reputable wine store but that always creeps up in my mind. I like drinking Brunello 8-10 years after Vintage. I prefer more fruit and less rancio and I also don't like my wines getting "past" their prime where I wished I'd drank them earlier. Interesting take on Brunello however. Barolo now..........That's a different animal. 15-20 years and it's just getting started.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: Slye

I still have a fair number of 1997s sitting in the cellar (28 bottles in 13 different wines CT tells me). In February 2016 I hosted a tasting of about a dozen Tuscan wines from 1997, and I was incredibly surprised at how well some of them were holding up, including Argiano (which I rated a 92); Fanti (a 91, placing 6 out of 11); Castello Banfi (92 points); Casanova di Neri (89); La Fiorita (a beautiful wine, which I scored at 93); Tenuta Friggiali (90); Pietranera (this was by far the worst -- 82; this was stewy and without much fruit or complexity); Tenute Silvio Nardi (94 -- this was the group's number 1); and Validacava (91).

I am not sure why I did not record the group rankings except for a few of them. My impression was that some of these could last a good while longer.

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

hankj,

The 2007 Montosoli will be fine but since you have a few it might be worth trying. The Reserve Brunellos tend to go much longer. I would think that if it isn't in the window yet it's pretty close. I bet it's in the window.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: Yossarian

I think (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the US is the biggest market for Italian wines outside of Italy

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ORIGINAL: Slye

I still have a fair number of 1997s sitting in the cellar (28 bottles in 13 different wines CT tells me). In February 2016 I hosted a tasting of about a dozen Tuscan wines from 1997, and I was incredibly surprised at how well some of them were holding up, including Argiano (which I rated a 92); Fanti (a 91, placing 6 out of 11); Castello Banfi (92 points); Casanova di Neri (89); La Fiorita (a beautiful wine, which I scored at 93); Tenuta Friggiali (90); Pietranera (this was by far the worst -- 82; this was stewy and without much fruit or complexity); Tenute Silvio Nardi (94 -- this was the group's number 1); and Validacava (91).

I am not sure why I did not record the group rankings except for a few of them. My impression was that some of these could last a good while longer.

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

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ORIGINAL: Slye

I still have a fair number of 1997s sitting in the cellar (28 bottles in 13 different wines CT tells me). In February 2016 I hosted a tasting of about a dozen Tuscan wines from 1997, and I was incredibly surprised at how well some of them were holding up, including Argiano (which I rated a 92); Fanti (a 91, placing 6 out of 11); Castello Banfi (92 points); Casanova di Neri (89); La Fiorita (a beautiful wine, which I scored at 93); Tenuta Friggiali (90); Pietranera (this was by far the worst -- 82; this was stewy and without much fruit or complexity); Tenute Silvio Nardi (94 -- this was the group's number 1); and Validacava (91).

I am not sure why I did not record the group rankings except for a few of them. My impression was that some of these could last a good while longer.

"Holding Up" is quite a bit different than drinking in the optimal window. Holding up to me means that the wines for the most part are way past their prime but are still just Ok?

As Yossarian mentioned, some people like older wines better than when they are younger. I am not in that camp. Everybody is different. I was just in Valpolicella recently and was drinking a lot of 2012 and 2013 Amarone and it was great. I do like it better with a little more age on it but they are nice with the vibrant fruit and more structure. It's a fine line and I'm sure everyone here has their own preference as to when they like to drink certain wines. There isn't a right or wrong. I see people drinking 2014 and 2015 Caymus Special Selection in restaurants around here and I just shake my head but it's their money.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: hankj

Well took my all of 90 minutes to pop that 2007 Altesino Montosoli

And yep, thanks Rick, it's right in my wheelhouse.

It's a big and little wine: big aromatics, very long finish. Subtle and refined aroma channels, gentle resolved tannins. Relatively transparent, WWR progressing slowly to a mildly orange-y pale garnet core, no bricking at all, crystal clear. The cherry character is Kirshy but clean and crisp, not syrupy. Oak is fine, limited but along with the skin tannin asserts itself in ideal balance. Mild and pleasant barnyard funk laced with good-smelling dirt. Slight orange peel and gin botanicals aspect. All subtle and yet a big easy nose and very long. Not even remotely hot and also no push over. Seems almost similar to a feminine Barolo in some ways.

Really love it. Would take some more tertiary - some tea, (more) sandalwood, mushroom would be great. But not sure I want to trade the perfect balance ad beautiful settled-in freshness for it.

I think it's spot on timing wise now and into the next 3 years; Slye probably would let it rest another 10.

Anyway thanks, fully stoked on this Friday first pour!

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ORIGINAL: hankj

Rick the wine has structure but in balance with relatively light extraction. It's easy drinking and balanced right now. Ideally I'd like it best with more age and its current level of tannic backbone. But more age with this one is going to trade off against losing structure. It still has nice fruit, not even remotely soda pop like, rather dry and crisp and in equal measure to secondary aromas. Tertiaries like tea and mushroom would make it perfect, but by the time those really build in the wine's tannins will be lowish and the rancio more prominent.

To my palate anyway. For me window is now until 2022. For old wine palates wherein acid steps in front of tannins and primary notes fade to fully dried it could go a whole lot longer.

To thanks for prompting me to open one - would have let it lie too long otherwise.

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If you prefer the dumbed-down version of things, you should stop reading now.

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ORIGINAL: Wine_Strategies

I tasted a few (ok, all of them) earlier this year 2012 BdM, here's part I