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RE: No Soup For You - 10/26/2017 4:00:36 PM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23497
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: online 		I’m on No Girls and silence is golden.

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Post #: 31
RE: No Soup For You - 10/26/2017 5:09:35 PM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline 		Curious to hear if Reynvaan has the same problem. As some have noted they have worked closely with Cayuse -- not sure if they use the same cork distributor. Curious to hear if other wines generally start to report a problem. It sounds like the problem was detected in May or shortly after. Plenty of time for others to have experienced something similar. Unless it was unique to the two batches sent to Cayuse, which is possible, but does not seem probable.

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 32
RE: No Soup For You - 10/26/2017 5:18:59 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4663
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		What a tragedy! Very sorry to learn of this... I can’t imagine how painful this must be for the winemaker and family... unbelievable negligence by the cork company (bet it just went out of business)

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The Professor of Brettology

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Post #: 33
RE: No Soup For You - 10/26/2017 8:35:18 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I wouldn't rush to blame the cork producer. Right now, you all have read one side of the story.

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Post #: 34
RE: No Soup For You - 10/26/2017 9:31:23 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 7251
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

I wouldn't rush to blame the cork producer. Right now, you all have read one side of the story.


You have a point in concept, but I don't feel you have a point in context. Outside of my personal friendships with the management team at Cayuse, as a business owner they were dealt a hand that no business with Brand loyalty ever wishes to get; cash flow hit, brand trust hit, uncertain recouperation of loss, etc.

I have zero reason to feel any of this is disingenuous and moreso feel they did right by their customer base and the wine market as a whole. To imply differently is a rude to Cayuse, Christophe, and Trevor.

I can empathize with the cork manufacturer as a business owner as well, this will no doubt hit hard and if other producers used the same Mfg lots, it could ruin them. There are reasons that people adopt QA/QC protocols, ISO standards, and GMP standards which may or may not have been present or followed in their operations. If they didn't have this in place, shame on them. If they did, I hope they remediate and survive. It is no different than wineries with TCA problems...this isn't an "act of God" issue, not on this scale, and not if the explanation is accurate.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 35
RE: No Soup For You - 10/27/2017 5:18:24 AM   
lockestep

 

Posts: 1964
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Unionville, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye

Curious to hear if Reynvaan has the same problem. As some have noted they have worked closely with Cayuse -- not sure if they use the same cork distributor. Curious to hear if other wines generally start to report a problem. It sounds like the problem was detected in May or shortly after. Plenty of time for others to have experienced something similar. Unless it was unique to the two batches sent to Cayuse, which is possible, but does not seem probable.


They shipped their 2015's last Monday. I can't imagine they have not sampled the wines in bottle, and also can't imagine them shipping obviously flawed wines.

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Post #: 36
RE: No Soup For You - 10/27/2017 7:26:23 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		All I am saying is we do not have all the facts about this situation. I am not implying wrong doing on Cayuse's part - malicious or not. I am sure the insurance companies and the cork manufacturer would like to know at what part of the process did things break down. They will probably like to obtain all the suspect bottles and test for themselves. They probably want to look at the email or communication chain when the flaws were discovered. What about the other customers of the cork company. There are so many questions.

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Post #: 37
RE: No Soup For You - 10/27/2017 7:30:49 AM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockestep


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye

Curious to hear if Reynvaan has the same problem. As some have noted they have worked closely with Cayuse -- not sure if they use the same cork distributor. Curious to hear if other wines generally start to report a problem. It sounds like the problem was detected in May or shortly after. Plenty of time for others to have experienced something similar. Unless it was unique to the two batches sent to Cayuse, which is possible, but does not seem probable.


They shipped their 2015's last Monday. I can't imagine they have not sampled the wines in bottle, and also can't imagine them shipping obviously flawed wines.

Oh that is good to hear. I assume if there was a problem they would have detected it, so it sounds like they are out of these woods (one hopes).

(in reply to lockestep)
Post #: 38
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 12:32:20 PM   
BRR

 

Posts: 1847
Joined: 9/1/2009
From: Seattle, WA
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quote:

I wouldn't rush to blame the cork producer. Right now, you all have read one side of the story.

Does anyone have any idea when the refunds will be processed?

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Post #: 39
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 1:44:38 PM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4510
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

quote:

I wouldn't rush to blame the cork producer. Right now, you all have read one side of the story.

Does anyone have any idea when the refunds will be processed?

None, but as the payments involve thier insurance carrier don't be in a hurry.

-M



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Post #: 40
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 2:10:22 PM   
BRR

 

Posts: 1847
Joined: 9/1/2009
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mclancy10006


quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

quote:

I wouldn't rush to blame the cork producer. Right now, you all have read one side of the story.

Does anyone have any idea when the refunds will be processed?

None, but as the payments involve thier insurance carrier don't be in a hurry.

-M




I figured the same, but had heard (once removed) that money had already been credited back to credit cards. I use debit exclusively, so didn't know if that was true or not. Doesn't sound like it is.

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Post #: 41
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 3:32:19 PM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline 		I paid with a credit card and I am pretty sure I have not received a credit yet. I assume it will be a while pending insurance.

(in reply to BRR)
Post #: 42
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 6:02:40 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		Wouldn’t it have made more sense if Cayuse reimbursed its customers from its pockets and then settle it with their insurance company? I’m sure they would have gotten the cash from the customers.

< Message edited by DoubleD1969 -- 10/30/2017 6:03:48 PM >

(in reply to Slye)
Post #: 43
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 6:12:10 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Most businesses don't have that amount of free money floating around. They're not that solvent. Money coming in is often turned nearly immediately to buy supplies and equipment to keep on running.

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Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 44
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 6:30:13 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		They’ve been in business for 20+ years. There’s no line of credit with a bank? There is no rainy day fund for this kind of scenario? All the profits went to purchasing land and equipment? This isn’t a startup winery.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 45
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 6:33:46 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		You're preaching to the choir Dom. In this economy, things are tight.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 46
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 8:41:16 PM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3224
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but the customer's claim is against the vendor. Irrelevant whether insurance can cover it or not.

Credit card payments in such situations can be annulled under the dispute procedure - most credit card companies will give the credit and recover from the vendor - again the vendor is liable and has to recover from the insurance company if covered

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 47
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 9:02:26 PM   
nmw

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 5/22/2016
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but the customer's claim is against the vendor. Irrelevant whether insurance can cover it or not.

Credit card payments in such situations can be annulled under the dispute procedure - most credit card companies will give the credit and recover from the vendor - again the vendor is liable and has to recover from the insurance company if covered


I strongly suggest we all collectively take a deep breath or more and give Cayuse time and space to see this through. They’re not going anywhere, they proactively took a painful step and got in front of any potentially bad wine.

Why are any of us in such a rush to transform Cayuse from good citizens into villains? Quite frankly I’m going to offer them the opportunity to apply my refund to a future purchase.

Let’s reward good behavior with patience and support.

(in reply to jmcmchi)
Post #: 48
RE: No Soup For You - 10/30/2017 9:32:41 PM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nmw


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but the customer's claim is against the vendor. Irrelevant whether insurance can cover it or not.

Credit card payments in such situations can be annulled under the dispute procedure - most credit card companies will give the credit and recover from the vendor - again the vendor is liable and has to recover from the insurance company if covered


I strongly suggest we all collectively take a deep breath or more and give Cayuse time and space to see this through. They’re not going anywhere, they proactively took a painful step and got in front of any potentially bad wine.

Why are any of us in such a rush to transform Cayuse from good citizens into villains? Quite frankly I’m going to offer them the opportunity to apply my refund to a future purchase.

Let’s reward good behavior with patience and support.


Well said.

I don't have any information than the rest here, but it seems reasonable to me on a cash flow basis for them to wait to see what the insurance company does.

(in reply to nmw)
Post #: 49
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 9:29:20 AM   
dsGris

 

Posts: 4712
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		My thinking is they could give the option to use the refunds to purchase futures if so desired.

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Post #: 50
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 10:47:37 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3224
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Why are any of us in such a rush to transform Cayuse from good citizens into villains?


Agreed; good practice is to be commended

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Post #: 51
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 11:29:05 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

quote:

Why are any of us in such a rush to transform Cayuse from good citizens into villains?


Agreed; good practice is to be commended

What good practice? Coming out and saying that a bunch of their wines were bad? Okay ... so customers weren't going to notice the pieces of wax floating in their glass when they opened it? Reimbursing customers through their insurance company? I'm not saying they're villains. But I wouldn't call it a 100% unselfish act either. I would rather have them give customers the option to apply the credit towards future purchases if they can't reverse the credit card charges.

(in reply to jmcmchi)
Post #: 52
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 12:22:56 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		No matter what a retailer's decision to attempt to correct a problem, there's no way to please everyone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 53
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 1:59:58 PM   
RedRedMoreRed

 

Posts: 1770
Joined: 3/4/2017
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		Well I'll be damned!

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Post #: 54
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 5:32:33 PM   
skifree

 

Posts: 3414
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline 		I am glad they made the decision they did - trust they will do the right thing about the money and will be patient, but certainly will verify.

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Post #: 55
RE: No Soup For You - 10/31/2017 7:16:09 PM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: skifree

I am glad they made the decision they did - trust they will do the right thing about the money and will be patient, but certainly will verify.


You sound like No. 40. :-)

(in reply to skifree)
Post #: 56
RE: No Soup For You - 11/1/2017 8:54:35 AM   
BenNoir

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 7/9/2014
From: Snoqualmie River Valley, WA
Status: offline 		I guess this year, having no soup, has not been a bad thing.

ben

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Post #: 57
RE: No Soup For You - 11/1/2017 9:57:54 AM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 7251
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

No matter what a retailer's decision to attempt to correct a problem, there's no way to please everyone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Apparently.

Hadn't been on the forum for a while, not sure what to make of the timbre and the tone in this thread, nor why people are so impatient for the resolution here. Cayuse, like Bordeaux, has a futures model that ties up your cash for several years prior to wine delivery, so there is zero impact whether you got refunded two weeks ago or in 2 months as long as you get refunded.

It's also ridiculous to think that a small business would a) have this kind of operating cash to pay for this out of their cash flow, or b) would extend a line of credit (with hefty interest) to fund this if they are in the process of filing an insurance claim. Cash is King in business, and while this situation is unfortunate for the winery and those of us who now will have a hole in our collection, I'd rather apply credit to future purchases or give them time to get things sorted out then see them go into a leveraged position and put their whole business at risk.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 58
RE: No Soup For You - 11/1/2017 12:47:44 PM   
Slye

 

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline 		In an attempt to shift the focus here, I did just get a stream of tasting "notes" for 2015 Cayuse which identifies them as flawed and notes that they are not being delivered because of cork taint. I get that not everyone understands the private versus public tasting note thing, but this is the first time that I indicated that I found the reviews unhelpful.

(in reply to Hollowine)
Post #: 59
RE: No Soup For You - 11/1/2017 12:54:54 PM   
BRR

 

Posts: 1847
Joined: 9/1/2009
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Hollowine and others: I re-read the above posts and I really don't see anyone at all getting "impatient." I also don't see a need for anyone to, "take a deep breath." I am perfectly fine waiting until insurance pays Cayuse: the money was spent, so I hadn't planned on having it anyway. I have zero expectation that any small business has the cash around to immediately refund a years'-worth of product (okay, not a full year, but a very good chunk). Simply asking questions isn't the same as being impatient or seeking to vilify the proprietor.

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Post #: 60
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