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[Poll]

Tasting fees

<15 bucks

16% (9)

Up to $20

21% (12)

Up to $25

25% (14)

$25-$50

14% (8)

$50+

21% (12)

Total Votes : 55

(last vote on : 9/16/2018 5:38:06 PM)
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RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 6:31:37 AM

mc2 wines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah

A good experience is worth a fee, maybe a big fee. High end wines are worth a bigger fee. A tasting with an owner, winemaker, high level employee is worth something. A tasting that is more like bar service, is only worth a few bucks. Comped fee if we buy three or four bottles is good.

More or less my thoughts on the subject.

Yep - exactly right. Picked all of the options. Have paid $150 for a tasting and felt like I got full value for it. Poured library wines, had food, had some bonus bubbles in the beginning which worked great as a cleanser between. Have had a free tasting where I wouldn't go back (busy counter service, person pouring not old enough to drink the wine, etc.). Mostly we prefer private to semi-private where you have to make an appt and you get to sit with someone who can talk intelligently about the wine, industry, etc. and often if you are not already a customer there it comes with a fee. Or an expectation of purchase (and in some ways as others said I'd prefer the fee).

Have paid fees in France to get the higher end or the library wines. Would continue to do so.

I don't think margins on wine are huge so I'm ok if the tasting room makes them a bit of money as well. From what I can tell, few of these wineries made their money from the winery (best way to make small fortune is start with big and all).

I do though appreciate that where we are regular customers we get the tasting comp'ed.

Not sure how important tasting fee comp'ed with purchase is. See both sides.

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Post #: 31

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 6:40:22 AM

Chip Merlot

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quote:

Limos or vans often shuttle people room to room just as quickly.

In the Finger Lakes and on Long Island, and I assume Napa and elsewhere, winery tastings became a big thing for bachelorette parties a number of years ago. Vans with a dozen women would go winery to winery, AKA pub crawl. No doubt bachelors did this as well but perhaps not as much or maybe they're more likely to go to actual pubs or breweries? Anyway, fees were evidently seen as a necessity to curtail this, which is why some serious aficionados will get comped very easily. Tough business.

PS, the fees haven't completely stopped the bachelorette thing. Mrs. Merlot and I went to a winery on LI a couple years ago, walked in, saw women in "funny" hats 3-deep at the counter, whoo-whooing, and we turned around and walked out.

(in reply to River Rat)

Post #: 32

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 8:09:14 AM

DoubleD1969

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I don't blame wineries from charging tasting fees when they know the majority of their visitors are being dropped off by a bus or van.

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Post #: 33

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 8:51:19 AM

BobMilton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: forceberry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

Tasting fees?!?! I already spend enough on wine without making it more expensive.

Outside the huge producers, its not something I've ever come across in Europe. I'd feel it was like being charged for a test drive of a new car. Or like those ridiculous clothes producers who charge you for their catalogues.

And I spit most of the stuff out when I'm driving anyway!

This pretty much sums it up.

The binge drinking part is aweird explanation. How can you binge wine when somebody is pouring you small samples?

You've never been to Temecula!

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Post #: 34

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 11:17:31 AM

PinotPhile

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Having read all the responses thus far, I decided to choose <$15. My rationale:

I pre-screen all visits and intend to buy wine at each visit. It's just a question of which wines and how much.

I expect the tasting fee to be waived for a 2 bottle purchase. Wouldn't visit if that wasn't the intention.
And, I e-mail the winery in advance to be sure that is their practice.

We are fine sharing a tasting as we taste to determine what to buy, not to get a buzz. I also verify that sharing a tasting is OK before we go.

We expect no trinkets, etc. such as a glass.

We belong to no wine clubs right now so don't expect any perks.

I understand a $15 or less tasting fee to weed out those who are looking for a cheap buzz vs. those tasting to buy. Completely reasonable.

We don't usually visit high-end wineries, defined by me as when the starting price is $50 per bottle. We don't buy at that level, so a nominal tasting fee of $15 or less is consistent with the types of places we visit.

We did pay a tasting fee at a small, local winery despite buying 2 bottles. That's because the vintner poured us a generous sample of 6+ wines over 90 minutes and spent time explaining and geeking with us. In that case, it seemed reasonable to pay the fee given the size of the operation and what we received in return. A friend of ours, who is a member of their wine club and was with us, wasn't happy that we were charged the fee. But I told him it was OK, no worries. This from the frugal one.

Tasting Cheers!

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 35

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 11:56:22 AM

jmcmchi

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Seems that the "tasting" part of the concept has been left by the wayside. I don't see the value of large pours - I want to taste and, as a result, spit probably 95% of the time.

If I want a drink, I'll buy a glass with a decent measure, so I'm more in line with the concept that a tasting fee is like being asked to pay for a test drive

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Post #: 36

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 12:57:59 PM

PinotPhile

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I agree. That's one reason for us to share a tasting. Just enough to make a decision.

Recently I've noted that some wineries seem to be combining the wine bar concept with a tasting room. You can taste and/or buy by the glass. And I observed a decent number of "regulars" coming in for a glass. Just anecdotal, but interesting.

One Midwest winery we visited had no dump/spit bucket, free tastings, and generous pours. I had to ask them to pour out my tasting twice then reminded them to pour light pour light pour light. Apparently a complete departure from their usual clientele. Decent enough wine to get a bottle or 2 for the experience, and we did.

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Post #: 37

RE: Tasting fees - 6/29/2018 2:04:00 PM

DoubleD1969

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Clearly, the folks who have Cellar Tracker accounts or any sizable collection don't go on wine tours to get sloshed. Perhaps with the exception of the group that went to Bordeaux several years ago! Drink First Growths and not Cakebread.

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Post #: 38

RE: Tasting fees - 7/3/2018 3:17:07 PM

mc2 wines

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Beg the planning of our annual Napa (with Willamette to start). It does seem like tasting fees more of a thing than they were (although as part of that wineries are thinking about the experience a lot more... employing chefs to pair foods, opening up the library stuff, etc). And for those where we buy regularly it also seems that even if there isn't an official policy, it will generally get waived.

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Post #: 39

RE: Tasting fees - 7/3/2018 4:00:07 PM

Blue Shorts

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For the most part, I hate paying for tasting fees, but I do understand that pouring hundreds of "tastes" can add up, especially for the small wineries.

The whole idea behind tasting was to entice potential customers to taste wines and to buy the ones that you like. It pretty much used to be that way, but not anymore.

The large festivals and regional tasting deals, like Passport in the Santa Cruz Mountains have turned tasting into "let's go winery hopping to get a drunk on", for far too many people.

So when it comes to tasting, I can understand why they now charge. People are using tastings to drink wine, not to taste wine.

I chose <$15 bucks, but I've paid $25 for tasting at a good winery. More than that is just taking advantage, unless they are tasting wines in the $100 and up range, which is pretty rare.

edti: And as MC2 mentioned, if the winery has good food to go along with the tasting, a fee is reasonable.

< Message edited by Blue Shorts -- 7/3/2018 4:02:48 PM >

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Post #: 40

RE: Tasting fees - 7/3/2018 5:40:55 PM

wdcwineguys

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I am not opposed to tasting fees that reflect the experience you are getting and the wines you’re tasting. I did a Paso and Napa trip in June and the highest tasting fee we experienced was Rudd at $150/pp many others were around $75/pp

With that said, we only ended up paying the tasting fee at Inglenook, which was $35/pp for the estate tasting. At every other winery on our trip we bought enough wine that the fee was waived. We also joined a couple of allocation-style clubs. Rudd even refunded our tasting fee after we purchased half a case of wine. (This fee was collected at the time of reservation)

Many of the smaller producers don’t have the quantity of wine to do free or mass tastings. Also, Napa regulates how many visitors per week the smaller producers can accept. For example, Spottswoode told us they are capped at 5,000 cases per year because of their permit and they can host 60 visitors per week.

Everywhere we went was by reservation and we got one on one attention. This level of service justifies the fee.

In Virginia, my favorite winery, RdV charges $65/pp and is reservation only. That includes a tour and then tasting flight with charcuterie.

I also found the wineries where they charged these higher fees were very generous with pours. At Larkmead we were welcome to drink more of anything we liked and they set out the decanters for us, which had been opened at 8am for our noon tasting appointment! Rudd opened up an older vintage for us to try in comparison to their current release. Seavey opened up three older bottles for us to try. This experience is worth every penny.

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 41

RE: Tasting fees - 7/3/2018 5:51:07 PM

mtpisgah

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Scott, now that you are done with your trip, did you have to pay any tasting fees?

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Post #: 42

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 5:19:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah

Scott, now that you are done with your trip, did you have to pay any tasting fees?

One (a single $15 tasting fee even though HRH and I both tasted)

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Post #: 43

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 10:06:03 AM

musedir

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Did you buy any wine on your trip?

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Post #: 44

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 10:12:53 AM

mtpisgah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah

Scott, now that you are done with your trip, did you have to pay any tasting fees?

One (a single $15 tasting fee even though HRH and I both tasted)

Was that at Enkidu? I think you have been buying from the other places long enough to warrant free tastings.

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Post #: 45

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 10:45:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah
Was that at Enkidu?

Yes and even they waived one of our fees.
We did buy a bottle from them as thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: musedir
Did you buy any wine on your trip?

Only wine to consume on the trip; you can't buy wine at Lewelling or MACDONALD anyway. We could have bought at Continuum I think but we have plenty.
(less after our impending Continuum vertical dinner with our local tasting group)

I am signing up for the club at Bohème.
I HIGHLY recommend these wines.

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Post #: 46

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 10:57:38 AM

jonathanknowles

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Interesting discussion. We were thinking about this last week while in Tuscany. We went to three small to medium sized wineries there and none charged, although I made appointments explaining my intent to buy. Same experience in Piedmont, Beaujolais, Rhone, Austria, Germany. Some have even opened older bottles for us.

I noticed however (in Tuscany especially) that some wineries obviously do charge for tastings for the reason I assume that nobody buys anything and they couldn't cater to the number of tourists who go there unless they did. So that's fine. They have dedicated staff in the tasting rooms whom they have to pay, I can't object to this, but I wouldn't visit unless I really liked their wines. I've happily paid tasting fees (around €10) in Greece before, for exactly that reason, nearly everyone who visits just wants something fun to do in the local area rather than tasting with a view to buying.

I can't imagine paying some of these higher amounts for tastings but then I suspect the wines at these places would also be out of my budget.

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Post #: 47

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 11:06:31 AM

oskiwawa

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This is obviously a generalization to which there are many exceptions but I have come to believe that often the "waive your tasting fee with a purchase " is really just a hidden tasting fee. This is a result of the fact that wineries quite often charge more for the wines purchased onsite vs. what you can find elsewhere and almost always charge more than they do to the people on their mailing list who get " free tastings ". Bottom line is it costs money to provide the tasting room service and these are businesses at the end of the day.

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Post #: 48

RE: Tasting fees - 7/4/2018 11:52:07 AM

PinotPhile

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Good point on winery price vs. retail price. Usually, we only visit tasting rooms for wine not readily available at retail. And some wineries feature tasting room-only stuff that appeals. As a geek, I don't see the point in visiting a mass-market winery tasting room. IMHO that is for more casual drinkers. But the industry needs geeks like us and casual drinkers. Room and wine for everyone!

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Post #: 49

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 5:38:37 AM

wdcwineguys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

Good point on winery price vs. retail price. Usually, we only visit tasting rooms for wine not readily available at retail. And some wineries feature tasting room-only stuff that appeals. As a geek, I don't see the point in visiting a mass-market winery tasting room. IMHO that is for more casual drinkers. But the industry needs geeks like us and casual drinkers. Room and wine for everyone!

I agree with this. On our recent trip to Napa most of the places we visited rely on allocation to members and limited retail. None of the wines I purchased direct I have found through retailers for less and often if I do find their wines it's very limited selections. Some of the wineries even gave us a deal on shipping, so by the time you factor that in, it really was a good deal to buy from them directly.

In Virginia we have a couple of these types of wineries, RdV is a good example, where they are an allocation-style club and there's now a wait list. But if you want to go hang out with a bunch of friends and eat and drink, there are other great wineries for this such as Stone Tower in Leesburg. The place is huge. The wines are ok, but you go for the food trucks and the grounds, etc. It's more of a mass market business compared to the smaller producers.

I also try to avoid going to tasting rooms where I can easily buy their wines at any store. When I go tasting I want to try a producer I haven't had or taste their new vintage. That's the experience. Tasting also lets you know if you should invest in those wines before spending a ton of money.

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Post #: 50

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 10:50:53 AM

annerk

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It entirely depends on the overall experience. For a four or five once ounce taste of a moderate wine in a run of the mill winery, I wouldn't want to pay more than $10. For a private tasting that included library wines with food at a high end winery, I wouldn't blink at $100.

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RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 11:10:08 AM

Tanatastic

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With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

< Message edited by Tanatastic -- 7/5/2018 11:26:32 AM >

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Post #: 52

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 11:39:30 AM

recotte

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

I think this is an interesting observation. As I understand it, in Napa, at least, newer wineries are no longer able to get permits to operate traditional tasting rooms, where anyone--or busload of anyones--can walk in off the street and get a tasting. Older wineries with existing tasting rooms are grandfathered in, but newer wineries are out of luck. Something to do with changes in permitting to better manage water usage, environmental impact of visitors, etc. There are strict limits placed on the number of visitors allowed per day, leading wineries to shift to the appointment-only, sit down style tasting "experience" that costs more to justify putting a staff person's time to the activity.

I've not done any research to fact-check this, but this is what was explained to us while at Checkerboard a few years back.

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Post #: 53

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 12:01:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

You are partly correct. Some tasting rooms are exactly as you describe, but the Napa Valley economic reality is far different from most old world regions. I have never paid for a tasting in Europe, but Napa is synonymous with “wine country” to people who think they are wine geeks. If wineries there didn’t charge, most would be completely overrun by hordes of people who googled WA scores. These people are not paying super premium money for super premium wine; many are simply looking for a super premium buzz. The higher end tasting fees tend to filter much of the freeloaders. As I said upthread, the Copain reserve tasting ($65) still attracted a limo of people going to their fourth “tasting” of the day (and they were not at the finish line).
Google photos of the tour bus parking at V Sattui

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Post #: 54

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 12:19:07 PM

wdcwineguys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

I think this is an interesting observation. As I understand it, in Napa, at least, newer wineries are no longer able to get permits to operate traditional tasting rooms, where anyone--or busload of anyones--can walk in off the street and get a tasting. Older wineries with existing tasting rooms are grandfathered in, but newer wineries are out of luck. Something to do with changes in permitting to better manage water usage, environmental impact of visitors, etc. There are strict limits placed on the number of visitors allowed per day, leading wineries to shift to the appointment-only, sit down style tasting "experience" that costs more to justify putting a staff person's time to the activity.

I've not done any research to fact-check this, but this is what was explained to us while at Checkerboard a few years back.

I am not an expert, but the way it was explained to me is getting a permit for turning land into new vines is very difficult. The amount of wine you can produce is somewhat restricted. Again, Spottswoode told us they are permitted to make up to 5,000 cases annually and allow 60 visitors per week. Many of the smaller producers told us about that 5,000 case cap. If you had that restriction the visitor restriction makes complete sense. You wouldn’t have a enough inventory for a large tasting room.

The other thing the appointment system does is curb window shoppers. I never felt pressured to buy wine or a minimum, but I had no problem buying what I enjoyed. One side note, since Spottswoode scored a 100 on one of the recent vintages, they’ll only sell you that wine in (3) bottle increments and you have to buy (3) of their current release as well. They told us this was to protect their long time customers/members, which I agree with.

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 55

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 12:20:28 PM

annerk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

One that comes to mind is Darioush. They do a guided tasting accompanied by small bites, mostly cheeses. Certainly not a restaurant experience, but more than just a tasting.

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Post #: 56

RE: Tasting fees - 7/5/2018 2:42:35 PM

Old Doug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

As I understand it, in Napa, at least, newer wineries are no longer able to get permits to operate traditional tasting rooms, where anyone--or busload of anyones--can walk in off the street and get a tasting. Older wineries with existing tasting rooms are grandfathered in, but newer wineries are out of luck. Something to do with changes in permitting to better manage water usage, environmental impact of visitors, etc. There are strict limits placed on the number of visitors allowed per day, leading wineries to shift to the appointment-only, sit down style tasting "experience" that costs more to justify putting a staff person's time to the activity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdcwineguys

the way it was explained to me is getting a permit for turning land into new vines is very difficult. The amount of wine you can produce is somewhat restricted. Again, Spottswoode told us they are permitted to make up to 5,000 cases annually and allow 60 visitors per week. Many of the smaller producers told us about that 5,000 case cap. If you had that restriction the visitor restriction makes complete sense. You wouldn’t have a enough inventory for a large tasting room.

Interesting stuff. A lot of people live in Napa County who don't directly profit from wineries, and they've been getting more vocal about traffic, etc., due to so many winery visitors. Permit enforcement was pretty lax in the past, apparently, and very spotty - only a handful of producers would get visited in a given year to see if they were complying or not. Some wineries didn't bother to comply, and were forgiven or not penalized much at all, and there was talk of money being contributed to political campaigns, conflicts of interest, etc. The permitting process costs quite a bit, and producers usually try to give themselves room to expand by requesting more capacity than they may actually use in the beginning. It does seem like things are tightening up, here.

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Post #: 57

RE: Tasting fees - 7/9/2018 6:30:34 AM

mc2 wines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanatastic

With all due respect to most of these replies, what you're describing is not a tasting, but a wine bar or even pseudo restaurant experience. Which of course would cost money....but it isn't 'tasting'. Which really shouldn't.

Perhaps. Although I still think of many of them as tastings. Food and wine are meant to go together and I think sometimes you can better understand a wine by having a bit of food with it. It helps to pull out certain flavors. It's a bit like the difference of a test drive where you go around a track somewhere versus you get the car for a few days and drive it in your normal course. Often when we drink wine in the 'real world' we're serving it with food. The pours are usually smaller than full glasses. There's definitely an experience to it and that's part of what we're paying for, but I think of it still more as a high end tasting. At the end of the day, it's a way to check in on wine that we're buying or might buy and decide whether we like it or not.

They're definitely clamping down on permits. My understanding is even the big places don't have the permitting to let them do what they do. It's just economic for them to pay the fines when they are assessed.

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Post #: 58

RE: Tasting fees - 7/26/2018 10:44:47 PM

grafstrb

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$25 - $50. I will go higher if waived with purchase. Obviously, I prefer the fees to be more in the $10 range, especially because I'm always *trying* to find *something* to buy, out of courtesy.

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RE: Tasting fees - 7/29/2018 9:43:09 AM

CBJB

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We typically only visit places where the wines are not available at wine shops at home. Have paid the higher fees at Darioush, etc. and felt they were worthwhile. But this is another reason we prefer to spend most of our Cali time in Sonoma. Good wine values and free or waived tasting fees almost everywhere.

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Post #: 60