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Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 12:13:32 PM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I have been a wine endusiast almost all my adult life. I’m by no means a connoisseur, most wines I drink are in $25-$35 range. The SA at my local wine store suggested me investing in a wine fridge even for short term storage. My question is how important is temperature if I’m only planning to store a wine for let’s say 2-3 years? If temperature is so critical, why wine stores don’t keep their higher end wines in a fridge? I imiganine some of them may stay on the shelf for a year or two. Also are the cheap thermo electric wine coolers any good or I’m better off to keep my wines at the room temperature? I keep my house at about 74 deg year around. Thank you all!

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/newair-28-bottle-wine-cooler-stainless-steel/8966644.p?skuId=8966644&ref=212&loc=1&ref=212&loc=1&ds_rl=1260582&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7ZaV3Nb36AIVycDICh3xIAIeEAYYASABEgLWrfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Post #: 1
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 12:19:33 PM   
cigar52

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: California... now Sarasota, FL
Status: offline 		The most important component of temperature in my experience is "being constant". Too much variation and the cork can be pushed up and down helping spoil the wine. 74 degrees in my mind would be way too warm.

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 2
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 1:24:43 PM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		The cooler you identify costs around $280 for storing 28 bottles
Assuming,way too simplistically, that you hold your stock for three years, you will probably get two -three cycles of storage in the life of the cooler, so between $3 and $5 per bottle, excluding tax and electricity. Only you can say if that makes sense for the wines you would put in it

It is probably made in China, so subject to the import tariff (I think 25% at the moment). If you think that will go away any time soon, you could wait to purchase and save about$60 including tax

I don't think 12 months at constant 74f would be a problem for modern stable winemaking. No idea on longer periods

As an aside, if your "room temperature " is 74f, I would recommend putting your red wines in the fridge for at least 45 minutes before serving. The room temperature adage was coined before the widespread use of central heating

< Message edited by jmcmchi -- 4/20/2020 1:25:53 PM >

(in reply to cigar52)
Post #: 3
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 1:28:43 PM   
vinopkm

 

Posts: 2638
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline 		70 is a little warm... I think for short term shortage it is not going to make a huge difference... I think where you will see the benefits of tasting the wine closer to the recommended temperature... you can taste the changes as the wine warms up.
Also the caution with thermoelectric coolers is that they will only cool the air up to 20 degrees less than the outside area. My inlaws didn't get that memo or understand that... they put there thermoelectric cooler in their Vegas garage... 80-85 degree red wine is not good. That will make a difference over short term.

(in reply to cigar52)
Post #: 4
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 2:38:11 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		25-35 bucks
2-3 years
74 degrees

You don’t need a wine fridge.
If you do take the plunge, buy one with greater capacity

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to vinopkm)
Post #: 5
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/20/2020 4:05:47 PM   
OceanExpress

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 11/13/2013
From: Reston, VA
Status: offline 		Agree with S1. You mentioned living in a house. If you have a basement, i would just find a dark corner and keep them there.

-Tom

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 6
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 3:15:13 AM   
Hooters

 

Posts: 156
Joined: 5/19/2018
From: Guernsey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OceanExpress

Agree with S1. You mentioned living in a house. If you have a basement, i would just find a dark corner and keep them there.

-Tom


and once the bug has well and truly taken hold, come over to the "What form does your cellar take?" thread for some inspiration on how to spend even more money!

_____________________________

“I love everything that is old; old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines.”
― Oliver Goldsmith, The Vicar of Wakefield

(in reply to OceanExpress)
Post #: 7
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 12:41:46 PM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		What’s the difference between high end wine coolers like EuroCave and the cheap thermoelectric ones like the new air other than capacity? Neither one has a humidity control unit I don’t think.

I’ve no doubt that I will eventually set up a proper cellar and start a collection at some point, I just hate the initial cost keeping me away from the hobby. Off site wine storage unit would be a good option in my case but unfortunately we don’t have any in our area.

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 8
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 12:48:48 PM   
avalonandl

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 11/26/2015
From: Troy, Mich
Status: offline 		I think theres nothing wrong with a 28 bottle cooler. I have one. I keep my higher end wines in it, those I spent more than say; $ 60. Wines that are 15$ or so and for current drinking keep on the bar counter.

_____________________________

Drinking and collecting wine since 1979. A 1974 Mondavi Cabernet was my AHA moment....

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 9
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 2:50:58 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ceriano

Off site wine storage unit would be a risky option in my case so fortunately we don’t have any in our area.


FIFY.

With the amount of theft from offsite storage facilities, even from the owners, you should keep your wine at home. Besides, the cost of offsite storage isn't much different than paying for a refrigerator and the electricity.

Now I'm not saying that every offsite storage has a felon for it's proprietor or manager, but I've heard WAY too many stories over the years to trust expensive bottles to anyone.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 10
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 3:59:18 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		Nonsense Cran.
Many of us on CT use offsite storage; one of us on CT owns offsite storage.
You are giving advice based on limited anecdotal data.

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 11
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 4:03:07 PM   
racerchris

 

Posts: 1622
Joined: 6/22/2015
From: Bolton, CT
Status: offline 		I'm very happy with the 12 bottle thermoelectric wine fridge I keep in my kitchen, but its only for bottles I intend to open in the near term (6 mo or less).
Fortunately my basement only gets up to 74-75F for a few weeks toward the end of summer. That's where I keep all the wine I want to store for a year or more. And I do have two temperature controlled units down there for really long term storage

_____________________________

Chris Foley
Searching for very good to excellent, cheap Bordeaux
stainlesswineracks.com

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 12
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 7:01:00 PM   
brettlaurvick

 

Posts: 904
Joined: 2/20/2018
From: Sarasota, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

Nonsense Cran.
Many of us on CT use offsite storage; one of us on CT owns offsite storage.
You are giving advice based on limited anecdotal data.

Agree wholeheartedly. Biased because I own a facility but not everyone that works in wine storage is a thief. I’ve met many other facility owners that run great businesses with solid reputations.

_____________________________

Brett
Owner - Cellar Fifty-Five Wine Storage, Sarasota

"Good wine is a necessity of life for me" - Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 13
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/21/2020 7:50:41 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Um, did everyone fail reading comprehension? Soundbitism is alive and well. I did NOT say everyone in the business is a thief. I simply said I would not pay the expense because I've heard too many stories over the years to take any risk PLUS the cost of a fridge and the electric to run it is about the same as storage, and recommended the OP do the same.

Brett and Scott - I've known lots of guys in various businesses who were great with stellar reputations.... right up to the point where they weren't anymore. Divorce, drugs, expenses for elderly family members, etc.... desperation changes people. I prefer to have as much control over things I invest in as possible.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to brettlaurvick)
Post #: 14
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 12:52:53 AM   
Ricardo

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Ascot, UK
Status: offline 		For $25-$35 wines with a lifespan of 3 years , you probably wouldn't notice any difference, though 74F is a little too warm. Ignore the wine store owner and spend the money on champagne instead!

If the bug really gets you and you start looking at >5 year windows and more expensive wine you are going to need a much bigger fridge than a 28-bottle kitchen vanity unit...I'd start with a 200-300 bottle unit and go from there. The model you choose depends very much on ambient year-round temperatures, you don't say where you are from..


(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 15
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 3:08:13 AM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I’m in Richmond Virginia.

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 16
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 4:38:11 AM   
racerchris

 

Posts: 1622
Joined: 6/22/2015
From: Bolton, CT
Status: offline 		I'm guessing you don't have a basement then. I see a wine refrigerator in your future.
As long as you run your AC steadily thru the summer a thermoelectric unit will adequately keep your wine at proper cellar temperature.

_____________________________

Chris Foley
Searching for very good to excellent, cheap Bordeaux
stainlesswineracks.com

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 17
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 5:19:04 AM   
Ricardo

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Ascot, UK
Status: offline 		Some of the bigger units heat up when it gets too cold, some don't. You may not need this - I did because my garage gets down to 32F in the winter on occasion, and 75-80 a few times in the summer. The fridge maintains its 250 or so bottles at a constant 55F. I don't know what brands are available in the U.S., mine is Climadiff (French) but Vinotech and Liebherr are other names I know of....

(in reply to racerchris)
Post #: 18
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 6:56:41 AM   
jonathanknowles

 

Posts: 339
Joined: 7/10/2017
From: Vienna, Austria (but from England)
Status: offline 		I have an older version of one of these, which fits about 180 (claims 200) bottles in.

It's not ideal because it's one of those which is deliberately warmer at the top and cooler at the bottom. But if you set it to as narrow a range as possible I get 10 deg C at the bottom and 16 at the top. I got it for €350 second hand though so I can't complain.

Liebherr Vinothek

Next to it stand about another 150 bottles in racks at a reliable 20 deg C in darkness. Some of them have been there 4 years and they're fine. I'm not sure I'd risk leaving them there for 20 years though..

My only advice would be buy a big one.

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 19
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 7:06:28 AM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		unfortunately no I don’t have a basement but I’m looking to move to a bigger house in a year or two.

In SAs defense I picked up a few nicer bottles the last visit (mostly brunellos in 70-100 range) but I don’t see myself spending $20-$30k on high end wines right now. Knowing myself I can’t sleep running a 200 bottle wine fridge empty. The minute I buy that sucker I’ll have to fill it up full. That’ll turn into a very expensive hobby pretty quick. 28 bottle fridge if it’s capable of holding wine for long term my be the way to go for me if I decide to lay down a few nicer bottles for long term.

(in reply to racerchris)
Post #: 20
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 7:08:32 AM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		$350 would be a sweet deal. Larger EuroCaves are all in 3-4K range.

(in reply to jonathanknowles)
Post #: 21
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 3:19:55 PM   
vinopkm

 

Posts: 2638
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline 		I would start with a small/medium wine fridge... look for deals at Lowes and Home Depot and then use coupons and price matching.

As other state you quickly out grow what you think you want to start with, and if you stay active on this board you will definitely out grow it quick.

Since it is a hobby you look to grow... this looks to be a decent fridge and good size for a starter, 52 bottles. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frigidaire-52-Bottle-Capacity-Stainless-Steel-Wine-Chiller/1000436083?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-app-_-google-_-lia-_-118-_-beveragecenter-_-1000436083-_-0&store_code=2605&placeholder=null&&ds_a_cid=410023113&ds_a_cid=414461469&gclid=CjwKCAjw1v_0BRAkEiwALFkj5o-pxH_GuvMV2JdWVBzR5hV3Ttx8FiMWr1bR2FtPYxpvL1yRpGVulhoCWCAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 22
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 3:40:11 PM   
Ceriano

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/20/2020
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

vinopkm


Thanks Vinopk. The Frigidaire unit uses compressor. Should I stick to thermoelectric units of compressor is fine too?

(in reply to vinopkm)
Post #: 23
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 3:48:15 PM   
jonboy74

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 7/16/2019
Status: offline 		My $0.02 - I use an offsite storage (that only I have a key to, so the risk of theft is very very very low) and have a small 16 bottle fridge at home. Cost comes out to about $2/bottle/year. Up until last summer, I kept all my wines at home, keeping my higher end ones in the small wine fridge but the rest of them at "room temperature" (71-74 degrees in my house). I mostly consumed reds in the $30-50 range before the offsite, and kept some in the house for 3-4 years that drank just fine. I didn't mind drinking reds at room temp as they tasted fine to me then.

Fast forward to now, where my small wine fridge is now full of wines that I have pulled out of my offsite and are stored standing up, since they will be drunk in the next few weeks. I also decant wines in it, space permitting. I do find that several of the wines I drink now taste much better when chilled, which you could of course replicate by putting your bottles in the fridge beforehand but I'm too lazy for that.

If an offsite wasn't an option for me, I probably would have made the leap to buying the largest home storage unit I could have feasibly fit in my house...



(in reply to vinopkm)
Post #: 24
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 4:33:01 PM   
dad300

 

Posts: 848
Joined: 1/5/2020
From: South Paris, Maine
Status: offline 		I have two of these.. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frigidaire-18-Bottle-Capacity-Black-Dual-Zone-Cooling-Wine-Chiller/50160179 they are working well and are reasonably priced.. catch a deal and they are cheap. caught a hot sale on the first one and paid $99. they are working out but I will need something larger down the road. mainly because I like larger format bottles as a rule.. but don't buy many as I have nothing to store them in.. yet
welcome to the addiction...

_____________________________

Red Mountain stole my wine stained heart

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Post #: 25
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/22/2020 10:34:00 PM   
vinopkm

 

Posts: 2638
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline 		I started with a 29 bottle GE Profile wine cooler (compressor) in 2007... I still have it as my only home wine fridge. I store 90-95% of my wine at an off-site wine locker.

I'm probably jinxing myself, but I had that cooler almost 13 years, moved it 6 times and no less than 1 flight of stairs each time and twice 3 flights of stairs (up and down once each time).

I think generally speaking thermoelectric are cheaper fridges. The benefits are lower electric usage and quieter... cons can't do white temps well and as notes above only good at lower the outside air temp 20 degrees to chill your wines.

Article on thermoelectric vs. compressor...

https://www.newair.com/blogs/learn/thermoelectric-wine-coolers-compressor-wine-coolers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ceriano

quote:

vinopkm


Thanks Vinopk. The Frigidaire unit uses compressor. Should I stick to thermoelectric units of compressor is fine too?




< Message edited by vinopkm -- 4/22/2020 10:42:02 PM >

(in reply to Ceriano)
Post #: 26
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/23/2020 12:30:13 AM   
WineJ2019

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 12/31/2019
From: Ventura County, CA
Status: offline 		I have a ~200 bottle cellar that I bought ~15+ years ago from K&L. It is like a piece of furniture with a nice wood design, and I’ve been very happy with it. However, I am now experiencing the situation as described by other posters. Namely over the years my collection has gradually grown, and the cellar is now bursting at the seams. I periodically try to restore some order to the shelving/locations (ie by varietal / region) but that is like solving a Rubik’s cube with so little space. Costco now carries a similar size storage unit but with a more functional model design for ~$2k, and I’m considering taking the plunge to free-up some room.

(in reply to vinopkm)
Post #: 27
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/23/2020 6:02:02 AM   
rlp805

 

Posts: 2224
Joined: 1/10/2011
From: Mouse House Orlando, Fl
Status: offline 		I agree what others have said, as long you don't keep them in a room with large temperature fluctuations such as the kitchen you are probably fine without a cooler. As an example we recently compared a 2012 Epoch Estate Veracity that my daughter has stored without refrigeration in her Florida house to one that has lived its life in our temp controlled wine fridges. My daughters house AC stays at about 78 deg so there is that for temp control, our fridges are set at 59 deg. I will admit to not having the best wine palette in the world but none of use could tell which wine had been store under which conditions. The Epoch wine is a big new world (Central California) Rhone blend so it is probably as robust as red wine gets so it may not be the best test. That being said you have to keep your wine somewhere so if you have the $$$ and the room why not store in properly. It is not a bad deal to start with a smaller wine fridge even though if the bug hits you'll out grow it quickly. When ( and if you stay on this site it is when not if) you upgrade to a larger unit you can keep the smaller unit for what I call patio wines which are whites and rosé we drink at cooler temps on warm Florida afternoons.

_____________________________

-Richard


(in reply to WineJ2019)
Post #: 28
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/23/2020 8:52:09 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rlp805

I agree what others have said, as long you don't keep them in a room with large temperature fluctuations such as the kitchen you are probably fine without a cooler. As an example we recently compared a 2012 Epoch Estate Veracity that my daughter has stored without refrigeration in her Florida house to one that has lived its life in our temp controlled wine fridges. My daughters house AC stays at about 78 deg so there is that for temp control, our fridges are set at 59 deg. I will admit to not having the best wine palette in the world but none of use could tell which wine had been store under which conditions. The Epoch wine is a big new world (Central California) Rhone blend so it is probably as robust as red wine gets so it may not be the best test.


Good data point

Tx

(in reply to rlp805)
Post #: 29
RE: Wine fridge for a newbie - 4/23/2020 11:27:03 AM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		What a coincidence.... there's a thread on Wine Berserkers about a vertical of MacDonald going back to 2009. The 2009 is very rare as it was not offered to the public and only 22 cases were made in total. The owner of the vertical offered it up to charity, the auction listed it, but when the donor went to his offsite storage facility to take pictures for the listing he could NOT find that bottle of 2009. Read here for more details - he's post #6 / Alex Gillette:

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2967464#p2967464

Given that the regular bottles of MacDonald sell for $400 - $750 at retail depending on the vintage, what do you think that single bottle was worth....$900? $1000 or more? If it were me, I'd be swinging the aluminum bat, demanding that bottle be "found" and returned OR ELSE. I wouldn't want to hear that the employees, manager, or owner "have an explanation of what they think happened".

I wish Maureen Downey was a regular contributing member of CT so she could expound on all the cases (pun completely intended because it surely can be taken either way) of wine stolen out of storage facilities she's handled.

To the OP again: of course, you can do what you choose. The 1 or 2 incidents that we hear about each year or so doesn't mean the entire wine storage industry is stacked with thieves. However, I refuse to take the risk - not only of losing valuable wine, but potentially going to jail for felonious assault (or worse) when I flipped out on the staff.

EDIT for a quote by Charlie Fu, Berserker Moderator: ".... all the security in the world doesn’t matter when the people inside are shady."



< Message edited by CranBurgundy -- 4/23/2020 12:32:56 PM >

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to jmcmchi)
Post #: 30
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