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Temperature variations of wine because of power outages. - 6/23/2023 4:48:15 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1566
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
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What is the real effect on wine if there is one or two power outages in the middle of the summer and the wine goes from 58f to 80f for a day and then back to 58f ?

A few months before the pandemic started I was going to put a power generator in my house to power at least one air conditioning unit, my fridge , and my cellar. Then the pandemic started and then business went into big problems, bla bla bla. Forgot about the project for a couple of years and now with this extreme record temperatures and controlled power outages I am really concerned about the future. Where I live we have been EXTREMELY lucky, but many of my friends have been with on and off power for a week. Power on 6 hours then off, then again on, etc. Some all night, some all day, its been wild.

Now that my cellar is worth on par with a luxury new car I am concerned that if I were not so lucky in the future and I have this wild power outages how will that impact the wine. We were without power for 4 hours on Monday and the cellar went from 58 to 72f in a matter of 2 hours even with nobody accessing the cellar. Of course one thing is air temperature and another is liquid temperature and tehn I also have 80% of the wine in styrofoam boxes all packed and not visible, so that can help a lot delaying temperature swings. But my question is if the wine goes from 58f to 80s and stays there for a few hours and then back to 50s for a couple of times a year if that would ruin the wine ? My logic says that wine cannot be that fragile as many of us trasport a wine, move from one city to another, etc and there are temperature swings that are not just a few degrees.

I remember that a power generator was going to be about $10,000 or $12,000 usd installed for a capacity of 7.5 kw that would be enought to power not my whole house , but at least the cellar, the fridge, and one bedroom air cond in the event of emergency. The problem here is not the price, but the instalation. The way houses are in Mexico is very different than in the USA and everything here in concrete and you have to do quite a lot of mess to install it.

Is my concern about temp bottle variation valid or am I exagerating the whole issue ? We do not have huge problems with power outages, but they are becoming more frequent and I am worried about a perfect storm scenario.

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Post #: 1

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/23/2023 5:09:54 PM

Ibetian

Posts: 3572
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From: Sarasota, FL and the Berkshires
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I wouldn’t worry about a few hours, given that you have the wine in styrofoam. As you suggested, the liquid temp will rise much more slowly than the air temp. A few days would be more problematic.

I’m on my 4th generator on my second house. We lost power for a week with Hurricane Sandy, and it was a lifesaver. Expensive, and sounds especially so for you with installation, but to me it was well worth it.

_____________________________

“I was a glutton at the banquet and spilt the finest wine,” Mick Jagger, Wandering Spirit

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Post #: 2

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/23/2023 5:35:34 PM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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I think events like this, a few times a year, would harm your wine. Not one single brief event, but there must be a cumulative effect.

What about doing an ecologically clean cooler? Your friends won’t hassle you and you would be off the grid. I’m thinking solar panels with battery storage, combined with a pipe circulating water that tunnels down a few hundred meters where the ground is much cooler, like in a cave.

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The Professor of Brettology

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Post #: 3

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/23/2023 5:36:18 PM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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(Insulation, by the way, is very cheap unless you care how it looks)

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Post #: 4

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/23/2023 8:52:14 PM

DoubleD1969

Posts: 3597
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB
I think events like this, a few times a year, would harm your wine. Not one single brief event, but there must be a cumulative effect.

I agree. The liquid temperature will start to creep up slowly. You can probably measure the liquid temperature by doing a simulation. Take an empty bottle. Fill it with liquid that has the same temperature as the wine (guess). Stick a remote thermometer (to avoid opening the cellar to get the read out) in the liquid and note the temperature each day.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 5

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/24/2023 7:28:28 AM

sastewart

Posts: 594
Joined: 8/16/2012
From: Greater Nashville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB
I think events like this, a few times a year, would harm your wine. Not one single brief event, but there must be a cumulative effect.

I agree. The liquid temperature will start to creep up slowly. You can probably measure the liquid temperature by doing a simulation. Take an empty bottle. Fill it with liquid that has the same temperature as the wine (guess). Stick a remote thermometer (to avoid opening the cellar to get the read out) in the liquid and note the temperature each day.

I agree with Ken also. From what I have read, fast temperature spikes are not good. I live Nashville and have a whole house generator as do all of my wine friends here. I’d get some kind of generator - even a small portable one. If nothing else you will sleep better knowing your wine is safe.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

Post #: 6

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/24/2023 11:37:40 AM

mclancy10006

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Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
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The air temp and wine temp don't move at the same rate. If you have thermal mass and good insulation the wine will not change that much in temp even if the air in the cellar warms fast.

Bottle probe is a good idea to measure it. A few hours definitely not an issue but days would be a problem as the liquid Temps would rise for sure and then takes lots of cooling to get it back down.

I have a generator but don't have the summer heat you do down south. I have the need to keep the house from freezing in the winer problem. We have lost utility power for almost a week in the winter before.

Mark

< Message edited by mclancy10006 -- 6/24/2023 11:38:03 AM >

(in reply to sastewart)

Post #: 7

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/26/2023 7:56:28 AM

wineismylife

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From: Arlington, TX
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Buy a temperature prob and insert into a bottle and get accurate data instead of guessing.

Buy a generator and sleep better at night.

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Post #: 8

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/26/2023 8:10:13 AM

KPB

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Eduardo has ample solar! Free, clean… he should just use it.

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Post #: 9

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/26/2023 9:49:00 AM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1566
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

Eduardo has ample solar! Free, clean… he should just use it.

I really wish solar would be the answer. Solar will help bring down the cost of electricity no doubt, but it would not help me in case of a power outage. Living off the grid involves buying batteries (a lot of them) and they pose an inherent danger by themselves. Other than that, the cost would be so prohibitive that it would pay by itself in 12-15 years. I think I am going to install some solar panels in the house that is besides my home and see how they work. It would be very inexpensive and easy instalation although my savings will be very small....if any. The house next of mine consumes less than $50 a month, so spending $3,000 for 6 panels should be only for fun. My house on the other hand can get an electricity bill of $1,000 per month between May till August, but I need a $30,000 solar installation and I dont want to since my son and daughter are a few years from getting married or just me kicking them out of the house

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Post #: 10

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/26/2023 11:05:19 AM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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Well, there is no question that a generator, an A/C and some insulation will be cheaper than that!

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Post #: 11

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/26/2023 11:43:40 PM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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One more thought: your dad looks like he is getting on in age, as we all do. And as people get older, they are less resilient to stress such as from a heat wave. Same with infants, which probably aren’t far in the future.

So, you might want to think about having this generator-powered A/C unit set up to cool some rooms as well as the wine cellar, so that if power is out during an extreme heat wave like we are getting in Texas right now, you can be sure your family does have a way to stay at a safe living temperature. I’m thinking it could just be a TV room next to the wine cellar, you insulate the whole area and put good shades on the windows of the TV room, and hopefully there is even a way someone could nap in there.

I’m sure you already have central A/C for the whole house, but I bet that a generator that can produce enough power to cool your whole house would go through a lot of fuel quickly. So, when the grid is down, this would just be a small part of the house, not the whole thing, but because it would be a small space, much easier to keep cool without running out of fuel after 8 hours. And you could maybe also have a subset of outlets in the rest of the house that could be powered by this generator to run fans, or to keep your refrigerator and freezer powered, but deliberately less than the normal full electric power used by the full house. Then you could have a fuel reserve adequate for 48 or 72 hours.

The one thing to be careful about is the fuel itself. I used to have gas powered mowers and chain saws and you can’t just leave them with petrol in them for a year or two and then expect them to run, or even ot leave them empty but keep fuel in a portable 2 gallon container. It turns out that fuel will absorb humidity over time, fairly quickly, and then it leaves a sticky residue if you try and power an engine with it.

So, with this whole setup, think about a way to ensure that the fuel supply for it gets completely used up within six months and replaced with fresh fuel. For example, you could just run the generator two times a year, until it fully empties the reservoir, or you could use the reserve in your car and then refill. But you wouldn’t want to have this plan fail because it goes unused for a year or two, then you suddenly needed and the reservoir gas has picked up moisture that way.

This, by the way, is a flaw in many apocalypse movies like “The Stand”. The rugged survivors often just seem to be pumping the gas they need at random gas stations. Apparently that would work for six months but longer term, this same issue would arise.

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Post #: 12

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/27/2023 12:15:27 AM

nwinther

Posts: 929
Joined: 7/28/2006
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This, by the way, is a flaw in many apocalypse movies like “The Stand”. The rugged survivors often just seem to be pumping the gas they need at random gas stations. Apparently that would work for six months but longer term, this same issue would arise.

I've had gas in a lawnmower undisturbed for over a year. Ran with no issue. I refill with gas from a plastic canister, sitting there for over a year. No issue.

I realize that gasoline will drop in quality over time, and quality-minded petrochemists would recommend a faster usage or replacement. But the idea that cars, in general, won't run on "old gasoline"...

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RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/27/2023 4:43:52 AM

khmark7

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This, by the way, is a flaw in many apocalypse movies like “The Stand”. The rugged survivors often just seem to be pumping the gas they need at random gas stations. Apparently that would work for six months but longer term, this same issue would arise.

I've had gas in a lawnmower undisturbed for over a year. Ran with no issue. I refill with gas from a plastic canister, sitting there for over a year. No issue.

I realize that gasoline will drop in quality over time, and quality-minded petrochemists would recommend a faster usage or replacement. But the idea that cars, in general, won't run on "old gasoline"...

nwinther, what KPB is referring to with gas storage is actually a real problem here in the USA. We add ethanol to the gasoline, which i am unsure if they do in Europe. By adding ethanol to the fuel this creates a situation where if the fuel sits for too long it creates a sticky residue in the carburetors of smaller engines used for lawnmowers, chainsaws, snowblowers....etc. If you don't plan on using the equipment for a long time you should add a stabilizer or cleaner after the storage, but it's a pain in the ass. For smaller engines they recommend purchasing the 100% no additive fuel which contains no ethanol and doesn't cause this problem (it's sold prepackaged in hardware stores). It's such a pain in the backside that I've gone to completely electric lawn equipment because I don't have to fight with those small engines every single time I want to trim my sidewalk or do lawn tasks.

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Post #: 14

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/27/2023 11:01:27 AM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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khmark, good point. This issue with gas leaving sticky residue that fouls that spark plugs and filters is definitely much more serious with the 10% alcohol formulation. But I've had issues even with zero-alcohol gas too: eventually, it seems to end up with some moisture in the tank, and that moisture then works its way through the fuel intake to the engine, wets the filter and essentially clogs it.

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The Professor of Brettology

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Post #: 15

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/27/2023 2:17:25 PM

Blue Shorts

Posts: 2779
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline

Good points.

I live in an area with frequent power outages. Some last for days. I keep a large supply of 100% gasoline on hand and I add STA-BIL fuel stabilizer. I have been doing this for years and the generator runs like brand new. All I do is change the oil every season and clean the air filter occasionally.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 16

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 2:19:59 AM

rlp805

Posts: 2224
Joined: 1/10/2011
From: Mouse House Orlando, Fl
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

Eduardo has ample solar! Free, clean… he should just use it.

I really wish solar would be the answer. Solar will help bring down the cost of electricity no doubt, but it would not help me in case of a power outage. Living off the grid involves buying batteries (a lot of them) and they pose an inherent danger by themselves. Other than that, the cost would be so prohibitive that it would pay by itself in 12-15 years. I think I am going to install some solar panels in the house that is besides my home and see how they work. It would be very inexpensive and easy instalation although my savings will be very small....if any. The house next of mine consumes less than $50 a month, so spending $3,000 for 6 panels should be only for fun. My house on the other hand can get an electricity bill of $1,000 per month between May till August, but I need a $30,000 solar installation and I dont want to since my son and daughter are a few years from getting married or just me kicking them out of the house

I agree with most of what Eduardo says, the way solar works in most areas is that you are actually a power generator plant an you supply power back to the grid while still using power from the grid. Because of this most applications that I know of isolate the solar power when there are power outages so that power doesn't back stream up the grid and cause safety issues with the workers working on the lines. Several companies are making battery "walls" that you would charge and then use when power goes down including Tesla and Enphase. As Eduardo stated these are still very expensive and really not cost effective yet. There is a danger (especially with the Tesla batteries) that they could overcharge and catch fire which is one of the reason they suggest installing outside and not inside of your garage. I have solar on both our house and our daughters house (full electric including pool, cooking, HVAC) in central Florida and we both generate more power than we use. Duke (our supplier) buys the excess power at the end of the year but they pay the wholesale rate and not what they charge the consumer. We also still pay a small (about $20 USD per month) rate to be hooked to the grid. When we installed the system we were expecting a 10 year break even point but now it looks to be closer to 7years. The danger of this is that the power supplier can at any time change the deal by increasing the connection fees, adding taxes or not buying back the extra power so you are rolling the dice a bit.

We are very close to Disney and seem to be on the same power grid which they tend to try and keep up. In the last 12 years that our daughter or us have lived here the longest power outage we have had (knock on wood) was about 45min when a car took out a pole by our house. I did look into a generator (whole house) and the best system for here seemed to be a NG system with the tank buried underground and a subscription refill service to be sure it stays full. The other advantage to this would be that you could run one heck of a backyard kitchen off of it.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 6:28:04 AM

jmcmchi

Posts: 3213
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This, by the way, is a flaw in many apocalypse movies like “The Stand”. The rugged survivors often just seem to be pumping the gas they need at random gas stations. Apparently that would work for six months but longer term, this same issue would arise.

I've had gas in a lawnmower undisturbed for over a year. Ran with no issue. I refill with gas from a plastic canister, sitting there for over a year. No issue.

I realize that gasoline will drop in quality over time, and quality-minded petrochemists would recommend a faster usage or replacement. But the idea that cars, in general, won't run on "old gasoline"...

nwinther, what KPB is referring to with gas storage is actually a real problem here in the USA. We add ethanol to the gasoline, which i am unsure if they do in Europe. By adding ethanol to the fuel this creates a situation where if the fuel sits for too long it creates a sticky residue in the carburetors of smaller engines used for lawnmowers, chainsaws, snowblowers....etc. If you don't plan on using the equipment for a long time you should add a stabilizer or cleaner after the storage, but it's a pain in the ass. For smaller engines they recommend purchasing the 100% no additive fuel which contains no ethanol and doesn't cause this problem (it's sold prepackaged in hardware stores). It's such a pain in the backside that I've gone to completely electric lawn equipment because I don't have to fight with those small engines every single time I want to trim my sidewalk or do lawn tasks.

Where ethanol is added, it is explicitly marked “E” (as in E10-95)
Annother difference is that in Europe, the base octane rating is 95, which is above superpremium rating in the US

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 18

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 11:21:59 AM

KPB

Posts: 4654
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
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Thread drift warning!

I actually have done a lot of work with the power grid operators in the United States, and helped create a system they use as a backup for monitoring the regional grid across all of New England. So I know a little about smart grids. In fact I have a half dozen papers on this topic.

And one of those things I've learned will sound insane yet is true.

Believe or not, when you "sell power to the grid" they throw it away. I'm not joking: they pay you for it, thank you, and then literally discard it. The reason is that individual homes don't produce much power and it is too variable -- one second you are generating power, the next a cloud floats by and the power sags. Even solar farms run into this: rather than purchase 100% continuously, a solar farm usually can only sell part of its production because the grid operators need to have a safety margin -- they won't buy more from you than what they think you will continuously produce over the next hour or four hours. So if this means they buy 75%, well, 25% gets "dumped".

If you have a solar panel, my suggestion is to connect it to your hot water heater and use it to keep the water hot. Beyond that, you might consider using it to run your air conditioner (in both cases with a switch to cut over to grid power if the solar dips). A wall of batteries is a good idea too, as long as it isn't in a place where it could set fire to your house if it manages to self-destruct.

I can't predict whether this will save you money compared to "selling power to the grid". But at least the power gets used this way. The other version is just accepting a handout from the government or the grid operator, who pays you and then discards the power because that is actually cheaper than trying to use the power and coping with the wild fluctuations.

[End of digression]

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RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 8:27:33 PM

BenG

Posts: 843
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From: Australian in Idaho
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Doesn't this just mean that the grid can't store energy? That they have no batteries to keep the energy until peak times? Seems strange that with all the new battery technology out there that the grid doesn't have an array of batteries to save energy - especially since there will soon be plenty of EVs that would happily charge with all that excess energy.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 20

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 9:27:44 PM

jmcmchi

Posts: 3213
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

Doesn't this just mean that the grid can't store energy? That they have no batteries to keep the energy until peak times? Seems strange that with all the new battery technology out there that the grid doesn't have an array of batteries to save energy - especially since there will soon be plenty of EVs that would happily charge with all that excess energy.

Only in Oz…..where they had Tesla install a humongous battery which has already saved millions in peak generator charges

(in reply to BenG)

Post #: 21

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/28/2023 10:03:16 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1566
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
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Ken,

Since you seem to be well versed in this issues, can you please confirm if its true that a new and revolutionary technology on solar panel is just around the corner ? I dont recall where I read it , but it said that China was going to offer new solar panels at a fraction of the cost of current ones and that the efficiency of the newer ones was dramatically superior. If so, it would be a good idea to wait for this technology instead of spending in the next few months on soon to te replaced technology.

_____________________________

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Post #: 22

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/29/2023 5:29:25 AM

khmark7

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

Ken,

Since you seem to be well versed in this issues, can you please confirm if its true that a new and revolutionary technology on solar panel is just around the corner ? I dont recall where I read it , but it said that China was going to offer new solar panels at a fraction of the cost of current ones and that the efficiency of the newer ones was dramatically superior. If so, it would be a good idea to wait for this technology instead of spending in the next few months on soon to te replaced technology.

There is always new technology around the corner but this elusive reduced cost theory I am skeptical. Corporations are here to make money not save the planet or power your wine cellar. It will still cost $$$

_____________________________

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Post #: 23

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/29/2023 5:34:56 AM

BenG

Posts: 843
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

Doesn't this just mean that the grid can't store energy? That they have no batteries to keep the energy until peak times? Seems strange that with all the new battery technology out there that the grid doesn't have an array of batteries to save energy - especially since there will soon be plenty of EVs that would happily charge with all that excess energy.

Only in Oz…..where they had Tesla install a humongous battery which has already saved millions in peak generator charges

Dang! I thought that would have caught on by now.

(in reply to jmcmchi)

Post #: 24

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 6/29/2023 5:52:20 AM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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Eduardo, I actually don't follow the solar panel hardware side as a product area, but this sounds like a "mashup" of some fundamental physics research at MIT with basic advertising hype.

What I can tell you is that there has been a steady but slow advance in the efficiency of solar panel technology (pretty much the same story as any other technology field!) and they definitely do improve over time. The great majority of these panels are manufactured in China, so that part of what you heard would be true whether you buy in 2023 or wait until 2035. Check out this review of advances in solar panels to see a summary of some of the recent ideas people have surfaced. Some of these will make it into production, some will die in the laboratory -- this is the same as with computer technology. Everyone who holds a patent always hypes it as the next really big thing. And then anyone who builds these products has to decide if they should license that patent or not...

Elon Musk has a company doing roof tiles (they are shiny but have the same size as normal tiles, like you probably already have on roof) that are actually solar panels. I think they call them "Tesla Solar Tiles". I like the idea, personally, but my houses both have the kind of vinyl roof shingles that come in sheets so this wouldn't be easy for me to install at our summer place (but I'm thinking about what I could do for our main house, where we live the other 9 months of the year). He also is behind one of the battery-wall product lines. I bet this is called "Tesla Power Wall" or something like that.

I bet that you do need to periodically hose these down to keep them nice and clean. For sure dust and debris from birds would cut into efficiency.

Pricing is weird in the US because of subsidies. Pretty much every state has programs to make the power grid greener, and they take different forms. In the areas nearer to you, there is a huge push to get people to install these things (even if they only heat hot water or run the A/C unit during very sunny days, that can take a lot of stress off the power grid). Here in the frosty north where I live, these programs exist too, but aren't as effective. Instead, there is more of a trend for companies or universities to take otherwise empty fields they own and turn them into large solar farms. Even if you can only trust them to give you stable power at 50% of their theoretical capacity, it can still bring enough green power to the company or campus to really cut the power bill dramatically.

So I'm pretty enthusiastic about solar. Wind too, in places with steady windy conditions enough of the time to make it work (like the Cochella Valley in California, or offshore from Martha's Vineyard). The main thing is how predictable they can be -- selling actual power to the actual power grid comes down to a contract to provide X amount of power during particular periods of time, and you end up with a penalty if you fail to deliver. So for the whole game to be viable, as a businessperson, it becomes a question: can I guarantee this?

With subsidies, in a place with a lot of sunshine and used for basic things like hot water, it is a super easy call: you need the water to be hot, and if some of the power can be from sunshine, why not? With subsidies, it can become kind of a no-brainer. Same with A/C: if you can power your A/C with solar plus some batteries, even if it only will work in the sunniest parts of the day plus maybe a few hours more off the batteries, why would this not be a good solution? So this is how I see it.

Now, last puzzle: Could China itself offer subsidies in some markets? I think definitely they might. Mexico probably lacks the huge national subsidies that are driving these state level ones -- it isn't the style of your government to do things like that in power delivery, unless politics has shifted. But China dominates the manufacture of these things and needs markets for its products. So maybe your local solar panel folks are hearing about a big Chinese subsidy that is coming down the distribution pipeline to Mexico. The Chinese economy did take a hit from Covid. And Mexico is an ideal place to sell these into -- abundant sunshine, very predictable on the whole, increasingly affluent.

So I bet that if you poke around, this could explain what you heard!

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 25

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 2/14/2024 5:48:09 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1566
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
Status: offline

Time to bring back this issue because after lots of deliberation I finally decided what to do.

Please take into account that this is tropicalized specifically for my needs and my experience with our electrical grid. For some very weird reason, our electrical grid is much more reliable from what I have seen what happens in the USA where many of you can be without electricity for many days or even longer than a week. You have lots of natural disasters, tornadoes, hurricanes, and of course winter storms. We do not have so many trees so there is much less liability regarding downed powerlines, etc. I am going thru all this so some of you can understand ( and critizice) my decision.

So, lets speak about priorities. We can all live without a hair drier, or without a washing machine, etc for a few days, there is no problem with that. My priorities are very clear : I want my wines to not go to 90f when there is no electricity for many hours AND I also want to be able to sleep if there is no electricity at night and it is 95f in the middle of August at 11 pm. Other than that I can live with portable lanterns and without washing machine or dryer.

I am installing a 12,000 BTU ( 1 tons) 22 SEER in both my bedroom and my cellar. This units are not going to be hooked to the energy of the house in any way. They will have an electric cable that will be like the one you use for a TV or a hair dyer. This cable will be outside the house just there waiting for an emergency. As soon as there is no energy I will start 2 power generators one for each AC unit. Is this ideal ? NO , but this will prevent me from going crazy if there is no energy for some hours and also me and my son and daughter could sleep at one bedroom for a night if there is no energy outside. Will the AC unit cool my room to 67f ? no, but it will be in the mid 70s instead of mid 90s . The cellar should be safe 100% and will hold temps in the upper 50s. Why not install a bigger AC ? because I need a bigger generator thus noiser , bigger, and heavier. $2000 for both AC units intalled. $$1,200 for 2 excellent generators. $3,200 instead of $10,000+ for a system for the house that will solve the same issues because I could not turn on central air conditioning all over the house, only either one room or the other. The only plus is that I could turn lights all over without issues and I could chose what parts of the house I want to cool down. If I want a complete 100% full house option it would be upwards of $15,000 and for possibly a once a year event I dont see the justification. Again, remember I dont have the problem of no energy for days, my problem is hours but around here in the middle of summer hours are felt like days when its 105f.

I am no engineer, please criticize my idea if I am missing something !!! This is the best I could think as a solution for the only 2 things that matter : my sleep and my wines

_____________________________

I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 26

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 2/14/2024 7:05:03 PM

KPB

Posts: 4654
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

Impressive!

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Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 27

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 2/14/2024 7:47:05 PM

DoubleD1969

Posts: 3597
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline

If you are going to use a generator, have an electrician install a transfer switch with a hook up for the generator so you just need one to power your bedroom and your cellar. I’m not an electrician but have installed one at my house for that emergency. It allows me to run 3200 watt generator, plug it into an outside outlet connected to the transfer switch and control which parts of the house will be powered. I opted to not power the entire house so a) the gas will last longer, and b) I don’t need to buy a more expensive and higher wattage generator.

Generators will also create a lot of noise. It’s not fun trying to sleep. Having 2 is even worse. You can look up options on YouTube. My preference, since I haven’t had to use a generator (knock on wood) is to take 3 large pieces of plywood and put sound-deadening material on one side and place it around the generator when it runs. It’s cheap. The plywood pieces won’t take up a lot of space. And most importantly and hopefully, the pieces will reduce the noise.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 28

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 2/14/2024 8:47:36 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1566
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

If you are going to use a generator, have an electrician install a transfer switch with a hook up for the generator so you just need one to power your bedroom and your cellar. I’m not an electrician but have installed one at my house for that emergency. It allows me to run 3200 watt generator, plug it into an outside outlet connected to the transfer switch and control which parts of the house will be powered. I opted to not power the entire house so a) the gas will last longer, and b) I don’t need to buy a more expensive and higher wattage generator.

Generators will also create a lot of noise. It’s not fun trying to sleep. Having 2 is even worse. You can look up options on YouTube. My preference, since I haven’t had to use a generator (knock on wood) is to take 3 large pieces of plywood and put sound-deadening material on one side and place it around the generator when it runs. It’s cheap. The plywood pieces won’t take up a lot of space. And most importantly and hopefully, the pieces will reduce the noise.

Thats EXACTLY what I plan to do ! I plan to build a small shed or dog house ( so to speak) and put a lot of acoutic material inside. I was looking in Amazon and there are plenty of options to reduce the noise. Even doing that I am sure there will be noise and I have to chose the ideal place to put it so there will be less vibration from the ground and also less noise. And just to be clear, those whole house Generac generators are also noisy specially when there is total silence because there is no energy in all houses that are around you !

_____________________________

I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

Post #: 29

RE: Temperature variations of wine because of power out... - 2/14/2024 8:52:38 PM

BenG

Posts: 843
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

Thats EXACTLY what I plan to do ! I plan to build a small shed or dog house ( so to speak) and put a lot of acoutic material inside. I was looking in Amazon and there are plenty of options to reduce the noise. Even doing that I am sure there will be noise and I have to chose the ideal place to put it so there will be less vibration from the ground and also less noise. And just to be clear, those whole house Generac generators are also noisy specially when there is total silence because there is no energy in all houses that are around you !

I watched a doomsday scenario show where a city dweller was self-congratulating himself for owning a generator after the power went out when no-one else in the neighborhood had thought of getting one. Word got out and he didn't have that generator for long.

< Message edited by BenG -- 2/14/2024 8:53:45 PM >

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 30