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This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/7/2023 9:13:42 PM

peeks13

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From: Wilmette, IL
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Hey, I was a beginner wine drinker, as we all were. I've heard people say, "oh, this Chardonnay is nice. Now tell me, is a chardonnay the same thing as a cabernet?" I get it. Maybe they were dragged to Napa instead of their comfortable place of Kentucky bourbon country.

At a paid tasting tonight, this person asked of the rep, "Can I ask you, what do these points mean that are listed below the wine descriptions?"

"Oh, well, they are someone's idea of the quality of this wine compared to others."

"So, do you want to have more points? Does more points mean it's supposed to be better?"

She didn't strike me as a golfer, or a triathlete, where lower is better. Again, having fun here. What have you overheard that made your eyes roll? If it was said by George Santos it doesn't count.

Post #: 1

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/7/2023 11:01:17 PM

nwinther

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From: Denmark
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I'm sometimes taken by some peoples... naïvity(?) when it comes to wine. I can find myself at a tasting or with someone who's bought some expensive storage equipment (or something else) for his wines, who apparently knows very little about what he just paid thousands of dollars for.

Questions like "is it really possible to taste black currant in a wine not made from black currant? How?"

And I wonder how they decided to jump off the deep end, buying hundred-dollar wines without - seemingly - any idea of what they are in for or "how it works". I love them, because at least, I get to try it out (and also play the expert :) ).
Maybe because my own entry into it (after being exposed to some world class wine) was: read, read, read.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/7/2023 11:48:42 PM

BenG

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I often hear "Hasn't there been a study that shows that cheap wine is just as good as expensive wine?"

(in reply to nwinther)

Post #: 3

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 4:43:01 AM

Echinosum

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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG
I often hear "Hasn't there been a study that shows that cheap wine is just as good as expensive wine?"

Evidently there is a lot of pretentiousness in wine marketing, and those pretentious back labels and shelf labels - mainly applied to cheaper wines - talking of aromas of this and that in some cheap plonk, mean that it is everywhere. And so a degree of disbelief and even studied ignorance from those who don't know much more than what they like is only fair enough. We can find out soon enough if they want to know a bit more.

A discriminating palate can be seen as a curse. Life is much cheaper if you can't tell the difference. But some people gain much pleasure from the enjoyment that comes when you do enjoy "good wine", whatever that might be. I think that is a useful comment to make to such people at this point, and I find they appreciate it.

Moving the debate on in a way they might appreciate, clearly to talk about "as good as" and "better", we first need to think what those might mean.

And then we can start talking what the studies they have misheard of have actually shown. Which is that if you tell people how much a wine costs, they will tend to judge more expensive wines - including wines that they are falsely told are more expensive - more highly than in the absence of that knowledge.

Some wine is a lot more expensive than others. Some wine is a lot more expensive to make than others, but the most expensive wines are considerably more expensive than their production costs. Is "quality" in wine a learned cultural phenomenon, or is there some objectivity to it? There's a difficult question, equally applicable to music, literature, art, etc.

(in reply to BenG)

Post #: 4

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 7:58:43 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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Actual exchange on a facebook post where I showed a photo of glasses with about a 3 ounce pour...

quote:

Friend: Why are wine glasses so big but always mostly empty?

My reply: it really does make the wine smell and taste better. Swirling is fancy too, but it’s more about the aromas. 🙂

Friend: Chris , lol, I’m not that smart! I will try it

I always try to remember a) it's just a beverage and b) the other 99.99% of the world is not as obsessed about it as I am.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 8:21:33 AM

stuart10er

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We were at a tasting in Carneros and were poured a Petit Verdot, which one of our fellow tasters really enjoyed (we did as well). He didn't understand that PV was a grape and asked, since he liked it so much, whether it was a "cab". The winery folks tried to explain about Bordeaux varieties and PV being, along with Cabernet(s) also being Bordeaux varieties, which he evidently couldn't quite wrap his brain around - so he kept replying "so, this is a cab, right?". After about 3 times explaining how Petit Verdot was a different grape, but grown frequently with Cabernet, they finally just replied - "yes, it is a cab." (sigh)

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 9:46:47 AM

recotte

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

I often hear "Hasn't there been a study that shows that cheap wine is just as good as expensive wine?"

In a similar vein, more than once I've heard something along the lines of "there have been studies that show experts can't really tell the difference between x and y when they don't know what is in the glass," with x and y variously being red/white wines, cheap/expensive, etc.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 10:29:39 AM

Ibetian

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For anyone interested in the topic, folks who have done these “wine tastes the same” studies include Robin Goldstein, Richard Wiseman and Robert Hodgson. Jamie Goode has done a reburral.

In my opinion, most of these studies are flawed in various ways.

But at the same time, I admit that blind tasting is very challenging, at least for me. Last year I asked my wife to test me on one cheap versus one expensive wine and I passed. But could I reliably discern 2009 Batailley from a Lynch Bages, Pichon Baron, or even Latour? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 11:27:39 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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A bit of thread drift, but I think it's useful to blind taste often. Cheap wines vs. expensive, new world/old world, producers using "same" grapes, Homegrown vs commercial, etc... Tasting groups do this often and I always learn something. I've also learned that Barb has a great, discerning palate and if she says it tastes like Feet, I'll love it!

I even just bought a bunch of "blinding bags" specifically for this purpose, they get delivered next week. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B82NH87C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Brown paper bags work too, but I have not been able to find the wine bottle ones and my wine shop is very stingy with them.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 11:30:23 AM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

In my opinion, most of these studies are flawed in various ways.

Agree. I remember about 10 years ago, The Guardian had an article about a blind tasting with about 500 or 600 people. They compared cheap wines (which they had in the $3 - $5 dollar range) to expensive wines that they had in the $18 -$35 range. The tasting was flawed many ways.

I don't consider wines in the $18 -$35 range as expensive. The article also seemed to imply that all expensive wines are of similar quality, which we all know is not true. And the participants weren't necessarily people that even drank wine.

I remember when I first started drinking wine, I thought that Sutter Home White Zinfandel was great.

< Message edited by Blue Shorts -- 12/8/2023 11:32:43 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 1:08:47 PM

BobMilton

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From: Newbury Park, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

[
I remember when I first started drinking wine, I thought that Sutter Home White Zinfandel was great.

And you may even have thought Zinfandel was a white grape!

(in reply to Blue Shorts)

Post #: 11

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 1:28:07 PM

recotte

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

quote:

In my opinion, most of these studies are flawed in various ways.

Agree. I remember about 10 years ago, The Guardian had an article about a blind tasting with about 500 or 600 people. They compared cheap wines (which they had in the $3 - $5 dollar range) to expensive wines that they had in the $18 -$35 range. The tasting was flawed many ways.

I don't consider wines in the $18 -$35 range as expensive. The article also seemed to imply that all expensive wines are of similar quality, which we all know is not true. And the participants weren't necessarily people that even drank wine.

I remember when I first started drinking wine, I thought that Sutter Home White Zinfandel was great.

While most on this forum wouldn't consider $18-$35 to be expensive, most of the general populace considers wine over $20 to be "high end." I believe the industry term for $20-$30 is "Super Premium."

Setting that aside, putting a less expensive, "drink now" wine up against a more expensive "this really needs some bottle age" wine, there are a lot of people who will pick the cheaper option, just because it's easy drinking in the moment. One of the reasons why these comparisons are flawed.

Edit: Notably, this was, of course, a complaint made by the French, leveled against the California wineries in the Judgment of Paris; the Bordeaux were too young, meant for age, and the Cali wines just showed better on the day.

< Message edited by recotte -- 12/8/2023 2:57:10 PM >

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 2:49:05 PM

wine247365

Posts: 1009
Joined: 5/1/2012
From: OC, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

quote:

In my opinion, most of these studies are flawed in various ways.

Agree. I remember about 10 years ago, The Guardian had an article about a blind tasting with about 500 or 600 people. They compared cheap wines (which they had in the $3 - $5 dollar range) to expensive wines that they had in the $18 -$35 range. The tasting was flawed many ways.

I don't consider wines in the $18 -$35 range as expensive. The article also seemed to imply that all expensive wines are of similar quality, which we all know is not true. And the participants weren't necessarily people that even drank wine.

I remember when I first started drinking wine, I thought that Sutter Home White Zinfandel was great.

While most on this forum wouldn't consider $18-$35 to be expensive, most of the general populace considers wine over $20 to be "high end." I believe the industry term for $20-$30 is "Super Premium."

Setting that aside, putting a less expensive, "drink now" wine up against a more expensive "this really needs some bottle age" wine, there are a lot of people who will pick the cheaper option, just because it's easy drinking in the moment. One of the reasons why these comparisons are flawed.

**THIS** -> “Setting that aside, putting a less expensive, "drink now" wine up against a more expensive “this really needs some bottle age" wine, there are a lot of people who will pick the cheaper option, just because it's easy drinking in the moment. One of the reasons why these comparisons are flawed.”

Or in lieu of add’l bottle age, they should decant it appropriately to try and get it to a tasty enough place to be able compete with the 90%-95% of the drink-now wines in the comparison!

We did a miscellaneous tasting of 5 reds a few yrs back and the 2 buck chuck came in 3rd. Of the 5 varieties, only the Pinot Noir was most frequently identified.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 2:54:13 PM

wine247365

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

A discriminating palate can be seen as a curse.

Shortening that to “ A discriminating palate can be a curse!

” would be a humorous signature for your posts!

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The number of bottles I buy is nothing in comparison to the bottles I don’t buy. Let’s have a little perspective please.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 3:02:08 PM

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
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RISE-ling from Germany
ree-DELL glasses
People who ask if I'm going to open a Burgundy (after we finish a Puligny-Montrachet)
Palette (and Palet)
Varietal

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Post #: 15

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 3:07:16 PM

ChrisinCowiche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

RISE-ling from Germany

I served some RISEling from Yakima that I made for a niece's wedding in Tennessee. "Purdy durn guud", said the Groom.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/8/2023 6:56:06 PM

skifree

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wine247365

We did a miscellaneous tasting of 5 reds a few yrs back and the 2 buck chuck came in 3rd. Of the 5 varieties, only the Pinot Noir was most frequently identified.

I am astounded, 3rd? My neighbors, very nice people, invited many people to their 50th wedding anniversary, which was held in the multi-function hall at the local Catholic church where they were members. The food was lovely, a whole roast (spit-turned) pig. The event was lovely. BUT - the wine they had was - yup - Charles Shaw.

I had a glass of the red. After some effort, the glass was empty. I switched to water, and mentally decided to enjoy that most natural of "vin de le terre" that evening. It was far superior IMHO.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/9/2023 3:25:34 AM

Echinosum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wine247365

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

A discriminating palate can be seen as a curse.

Shortening that to “ A discriminating palate can be a curse! ” would be a humorous signature for your posts!

Thank you. I'll shortened it a little more as I don't speak emoji, due to another thing which can be a curse.

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A discriminating palate can be a curse.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/9/2023 3:58:09 AM

KPB

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Some people fake ignorance.

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/9/2023 7:00:25 AM

fingers

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How dare you question the sincerity of our ignorance!

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RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/9/2023 8:58:21 PM

BenG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1
Varietal

Ha!

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Post #: 21

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 10:00:24 AM

Rich64N

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From: Tacoma and Pasco WA
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"The secret to a good wine is buy a cheap one and put it away for a few years." Sometimes true, but just as likely the pull-and-pour will end up brown (or yellowed) and good only for cooking.

"I just love this rose wine. It has pomegranate in it," or similar. No problem with your wine cocktail (or frozen slushie) but don't expect me to enjoy the sugar bomb imitation rose. I'm not kidding about the pomegranate (was served at a wedding, I tried it).

Then there is some wine marketing (celebrity endorsed, small family (mega-)winery,....) to sell plonk at double the price it should be.

(in reply to BenG)

Post #: 22

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 10:28:58 AM

River Rat

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At a large tasting event in Napa at Greystone, I said to the pourer “This wine is corked”
Her reply, “I know, I pulled the cork myself”
Me, “No, it’s flawed”
Her, “Everyone else seems to like it.”

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Post #: 23

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 10:38:45 AM

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From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: River Rat

At a large tasting event in Napa at Greystone, I said to the pourer “This wine is corked”
Her reply, “I know, I pulled the cork myself”
Me, “No, it’s flawed”
Her, “Everyone else seems to like it.”

sigh...

drycab and I had a Futo that we both declared incredibly corked. They made him send the bottle so they could send it to the lab.
Guess what?
Incredibly corked.

He used to but a sith ton from them, but they still didn't trust us.

< Message edited by S1 -- 12/10/2023 10:39:14 AM >

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Post #: 24

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 10:41:32 AM

River Rat

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From: Forestville, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

RISE-ling from Germany
ree-DELL glasses
People who ask if I'm going to open a Burgundy (after we finish a Puligny-Montrachet)
Palette (and Palet)
Varietal

And Pallet
And burgundy refers to the color, Gallo has had it for decades.

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 25

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 12:14:28 PM

peeks13

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At a wedding last night, at the bar they had one red (Bordeaux) and one white (Burgundy). I said to the bartender, "I'll have the Montrachet." She said, "which one?" I said, "the Burgundy. The white Burgundy." She said, "all we have for whites is chardonnay."

I thought to myself, that was a fun exchange. I now have another entry for my thread.

(in reply to River Rat)

Post #: 26

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 4:07:57 PM

BobMilton

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Or how about those who think Cheval Blanc is a white wine?

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Post #: 27

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 6:17:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton

Or how about those who think Cheval Blanc is a white wine?

Wait, WHAT?

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Post #: 28

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/10/2023 8:21:32 PM

Paul852

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It is if it's Le Petit Cheval Blanc!

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Post #: 29

RE: This is meant to be fun, albeit a bit catty. - 12/11/2023 9:40:19 AM

BobMilton

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