AI is a better blind taster than I am

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AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/9/2023 12:12:10 PM

recotte

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First, blind tasting. Next, SkyNet. We’re doomed!

“Artificial intelligence can identify by smell which particular chateau a Bordeaux red wine comes from. Swiss scientists trained an AI on the chemical signatures of 73 wines from seven particular estates, then introduced seven new wines. Then they repeated the process 50 times. The algorithm identified the correct chateau every time, and got the vintage — the year of production, out of a possible 12 — right 50% of the time. It noted that wines from the right bank of the Garonne, the river near Bordeaux, were chemically distinct from those on the left bank. It’s “coming close to proof” that local soils, climate, and traditions — known as the terroir — affect the flavor of wine, as wine buffs have long claimed, one researcher told New Scientist.”

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RE: AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/9/2023 12:43:13 PM

ChrisinCowiche

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From: Cowiche, WA
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I'm reminded of my Senior ChE design project where we wrote programming, Fortran using punch cards for a single line of code per card. We used GC/Mass Spec data to predict distillation column separation of some simple mixture, probably ethanol and water, maybe methanol too. There are now, and were even then, much more robust modelling programs that did the same thing. Add ~40 years of science and computing technology, and this is what we now call AI. Really no different now than when Al Gore, Jr. invented the internet.

As an aside, Al grew up mostly in DC, but his "home town" and where I think he lives now, is Carthage, TN, about 30 miles from the University, TTU in Cookeville, where I learned Fortran.

< Message edited by ChrisinCowiche -- 12/9/2023 1:47:31 PM >

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RE: AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/9/2023 4:09:56 PM

BobMilton

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And Al was instrumental in repealing the federal law that made it a felony to interconnect networks.

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RE: AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/9/2023 7:04:46 PM

khmark7

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That's great, but doesn't each Chateau typically change the blend most years and so the data points would have to be updated each and every year. What happens if you drop a few ice cubes (or peanuts) into the wine???

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RE: AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/10/2023 12:39:53 PM

Echinosum

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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte
Swiss scientists trained an AI on the chemical signatures of 73 wines from seven particular estates, then introduced seven new wines. Then they repeated the process 50 times. The algorithm identified the correct chateau every time, and got the vintage — the year of production, out of a possible 12 — right 50% of the time. It noted that wines from the right bank ... were chemically distinct from those on the left bank. It’s “coming close to proof” that local soils, climate, and traditions — known as the terroir — affect the flavor of wine, as wine buffs have long claimed, one researcher told New Scientist.”

So it can tell 7 estates apart, if it knows it has to be one of those 7. Bordeaux has a lot of variety, more so than say red Burgundy which uses only one grape. If chosen to be as distinctive as possible in terroir and typical blend profile, I'm not surprised. Chemical analysis can easily distinguish wines from different grape varieties.

So of course left and right bank wines are chemically distinct, just because of their quite different varietal blend profiles - very little Cab Sauv is used on the right bank. That would be enough to make them chemically very different. Even in the left bank, there are wines that are typically very high in CS, and those that are generally rather lower, and I expect those are reliably distinguishable for that reason, if those are the only options available to you to choose from.

I'd be a lot more impressed if it reliably distinguish 70 estates. If it could tell the various chateau that use similar blend profiles apart from different areas. If it distinguish estates using similar blend profiles from the same area, like being able to distinguish the various different estates of Pauillac, or different merlot-dominated right bank wines. Of course, its hard to prove it is a difference in terroir rather than wine-making practice. If it could tell vineyards in Burgundy apart, despite them being from different makers, that would be a much stronger clue. AI isn't very good at telling us why it makes its choices, but maybe if could be so persuaded we might be able to tell the difference.

Someone did an experiment once chemically testing grapes of the same variety grown in different soil types. It found consistent differences, that were due to the drainage structure of the soil. It did not find any differences from the chemical makeup of the soil, ie what kind of rock it was based on. Nevertheless that is kind of sufficient to prove that terroir exists, but perhaps not as richly as might be claimed. But the experiment had limitations, and there may be more to discover. Just because it was unable to find something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

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RE: AI is a better blind taster than I am - 12/10/2023 10:27:21 PM

nwinther

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

That's great, but doesn't each Chateau typically change the blend most years and so the data points would have to be updated each and every year. What happens if you drop a few ice cubes (or peanuts) into the wine???

To an extent. I think most chateaux would keep a style, so while there might be an increase in Merlot one year, it would still be within some sort of boundry that the taster (AI) could recognize.

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