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RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/19/2024 5:30:30 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb
*Just my personal opinion* Warning!! Most USA/CA wines don't age well over the long term. Sure, there are plenty of exceptions, but I stand by "most." YMMV.


I agree… particularly the riper, more lush wines. The best in the less extreme category age pretty well, in the sense of not losing appeal and gaining nuance and mature aromas. Most of mine should drink well young but might not peak until age 15. But that riper style prevalent in Napa? Drink within five years!

< Message edited by KPB -- 2/24/2024 6:26:05 AM >

_____________________________

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The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to grafstrb)
Post #: 31
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/19/2024 6:54:08 AM   
Paul852

 

Posts: 2653
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Just to illustrate that other approaches are possible, I am, I believe, as big a consumer of wine as anyone here with annual consumption of around 400 bottles (and as high as 900 in 2020). But I've never cellared more than 180 bottles (when I had a big Artevino fridge for a few years) and now after some changes in my life I have between 20 and 50 at any one time, simply stored at room temperature. That's simply 2-4 weeks supply. It's rare for bottles to remain undrunk for more than 3 months.

I have the good fortune to live in Hong Kong, which is the centre of the wine trade in Asia. There are hundreds of retailers (mainly online, but also plenty of physical shops) within the territory and all offer free (air-conditioned) delivery within a couple of days for minimum orders of ~US$100-150. There is no duty on wine, and no sales tax. I place orders, normally of 6 or 12 bottle mixed cases, every few days.

My attitude is that there are more good wines in the world than could be drunk in 100 lifetimes, and life is short and unpredictable, so I'm simply going to try lots of different wines (in 2022 for example, I drank 617 bottles of 253 different wines), and repeat buy those that particularly appeal. Buying wine now to drink in 10+ years time really doesn't appeal to me. If I want to drink old wine I can buy it now without the intervening hassle, and by reading recent TNs I can avoid wines which actually really aren't that good after all the waiting or are well past their prime. But having said that I almost never spend more US$100 (retail) on a bottle of wine, and rarely more than US$60. The average price of those 617 bottles in 2022 was ~US$25.

I have been to quite a few tastings of more expensive wine, and whilst in some cases I do find the wine to be better than my normal purchases I find that there is an extremely steep diminishing return with price: I have never had, say, a US$200 wine that I would swap for 6 of my favourite US$33 wine. Not so long ago a friend shared a bottle of 2012 Chateau Margaux and it was certainly a very nice wine, but it was almost too perfect - it was basically exactly what I imagined high-end Margaux to be like, and as a result it was rather anti-climactic. And it absolutely wasn't worth (to me) the ~US$500 that it would cost to buy one when I could get a couple of cases of, frankly, more interesting wine for the same money. Yes I know that some here would say that it was drunk 10-20 years too early and that it would be more interesting later, but the same friend has shared with me red Bordeaux from some top-end producers that he has stored for up to 35 years and, frankly, the results were very disappointing - a significant proportion were either flawed or years over the hill and far below the wines I consume on a daily basis in terms of drinking pleasure (as I perceive it) at a fraction of the cost.

Note though that we (my wife helps me ) drink a rather different mix of wine types than most here. The split in 2022 was:

White 40.8% (252) / average US$19
Red 20.7% (128) / average US$31
Rosé 14.7% (91) / average US$17
White - Sparkling 14.6% (90) / average US$36
Rosé - Sparkling 6.3% (39) / average US$36
Others (fortified, dessert, etc) 2.7% (17)
White - Sweet/Dessert 1.3%

So that means we're really not typical of the community here on this forum, either in terms of the types of wine we drink or how we going about buying them.

< Message edited by Paul852 -- 2/19/2024 6:57:35 AM >

(in reply to lockestep)
Post #: 32
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/19/2024 5:52:57 PM   
#winewithryan

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 2/15/2024
Status: offline 		We are still trying to figure out how to tell which wines need time to age before drinking....and have yet to explore many of the world wines. How do you know based on a singular wine when it should be consumed? These are things we are still learning about.

(in reply to lockestep)
Post #: 33
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/19/2024 8:29:15 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 8248
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan

We are still trying to figure out how to tell which wines need time to age before drinking....and have yet to explore many of the world wines. How do you know based on a singular wine when it should be consumed? These are things we are still learning about.


If you enjoyed it, the time was right

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 34
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 7:15:04 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23493
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		about 1400 in cellar (and ready for winter tetris), which provides about 200-300 in the drinking platform for my Eurocave in the garage for dailies. Due to an illness that is ongoing and truly a pain in the ass, I am not drinking as much as I used to. Wines do last a mite longer than the suggested drinking windows.







< Message edited by musedir -- 2/20/2024 8:58:43 AM >

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"Fan the sinnking flame of hilarity with the wing of friendship; and pass the rosy wine." Charles Dickens.

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Post #: 35
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 8:03:16 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Deciding when to drink a specific wine is a very challenging puzzle. Coravin can be a useful tool, and an empty half-bottle with a screwcap as well.

Basically either you need to sample the wine, or someone else needs to do it and post a TN -- someone you trust, who also goes to the trouble of saying whether the wine is ready yet.

With many wines, giving them time to open up and breath is a big deal. Splash decanting or violent aeration can work, but many of my best wines drink well know but not with those techniques. So I often open a bottle, drink a glass, let the wine sit until the next night and try it again (no nitrogen or anything, but in a cool dark spot or even in the fridge, except take it out well before dinner if you go that route). Maybe even again on the night after that.

To me a wine that tastes fantastic on night three is fine and perfectly drinkable. Yet you might read my TN and pull a cork and pour it right away and think it was undrinkable, tannic, mouth-puckering, no nose...

The Coravin is one option for extracting a small sample. And the idea of the screwcap half bottle is to just open the bottle, immediately put half of it in the other bottle and close tightly (it can wait for a year or two at that point but maybe not a decade). Then you can judge from the sample.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 36
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 8:09:22 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan
We are still trying to figure out how to tell which wines need time to age before drinking....and have yet to explore many of the world wines. How do you know based on a singular wine when it should be consumed? These are things we are still learning about.

Ultimately you are trying to discover when you like to drink various wines, which is not necessarily the same as what other people think. But what other people think is a starting point. Over time, you will hope to build up your own intelligence to convert what other people say on various wines to what you would like to do.

If you look on the CT entries for various singular wines, as you put it, you mostly see that they have a drinking windows. And if there isn't one for the most recent vintage of a wine that you are thinking of purchasing, you can look at older vintages of that wine to get a clue what that wine is generally like. It will be more reliable for wines that there are large CT holdings, for the numbers are crowd-sourced from the clientele. This window will give you an indication of when other people like to drink these wines. Another useful indicator is to have a look at the stats on a wines page of how many bottles have been drunk, and how many are still in cellars. This gives you a clue as to whether other people are drinking it, or still keeping it.

That drinking window is fairly simple, year A to year B, but the experience of wine is more complex. It is a very common phenomenon, and I have read of experiments that provide considerable confirmation for it, that many better wines go through a dip or dumb period in their development. This is an intermediate period when they are in a kind of ugly adolescence converting from the attractions of youth to the mature sophistication of their peak. This is quite widespread experience, and something to bear in mind. For the kind of wines I drink, it mostly begins at about 3 or 5 yrs, but it can happen rather later with wines intended for long aging. No one can foretell exactly when it might finish. We look at tasting notes as they come in and try to see what is going on. The CT drinking window will not make the dumb period explicit.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 37
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 9:46:07 AM   
Wine Grove

 

Posts: 714
Joined: 11/9/2017
From: San Clemente, CA
Status: offline 		I've been at this about 15 years now, and based on having some storage limitations (no formal room/cellar per say), I'm comfortable with a collection in the 300-400 bottle range. Over the years my palate has shifted a bit and thus balanced out the "Cellar", but feel that is small enough number that we have space and be able to keep tight inventory on, yet big enough to cover many varietals and regions that I want regularly drink and keep. Plus I don't want to end up sitting on tons of aging wines that i'm no longer interested to drink.

Over the years you can gradually fine tune your collection as your palate evolves.

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 38
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 6:53:44 PM   
Paul852

 

Posts: 2653
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan
We are still trying to figure out how to tell which wines need time to age before drinking....and have yet to explore many of the world wines. How do you know based on a singular wine when it should be consumed? These are things we are still learning about.

If you enjoyed it, the time was right

Indeed - this wine buying/drinking thing is made much easier if you don't make it over-complicated by trying to guess what might be to your taste many years in the future.

I simply buy a bottle that looks interesting and drink it. If I like it I buy more, if I don't then I don't. Yes, I might miss out on some older wines which are impossible to buy when they are ready for drinking, but there are so many tens of thousands of other wines available to try of which more than I could possibly drink will be enjoyable right now that I'm not going to lose any sleep on not being able to buy any specific wine.

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 39
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 7:41:44 PM   
wine247365

 

Posts: 1012
Joined: 5/1/2012
From: OC, CA
Status: offline 		1,360 at home and offsite, with approx 60 pending. After going above 1,500 in total for a while,I’ve been trying like hell to shrink my cellar and finally succeeded last year in reducing it ~75 bottles. That’s a small toehold that I’lll look to increase each year.

Your OP had also asked for recco’s on <$50 wines, so should we adjust that to say USD30 given how tightly regulated your wine market is there?

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The number of bottles I buy is nothing in comparison to the bottles I don’t buy. Let’s have a little perspective please.

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 40
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/20/2024 10:05:24 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 8836
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan

We are still trying to figure out how to tell which wines need time to age before drinking....and have yet to explore many of the world wines. How do you know based on a singular wine when it should be consumed? These are things we are still learning about.

1. Read notes from other users; after awhile, if you're paying close attention, you will identify other CTers who have roughly the same opinions as you regarding when a wine is young/middle aged/old. Become a "Fan" of theirs.

2. Read notes from the pros.

and, most importantly

3. Personal experience


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Terroir is not a flavor.

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Post #: 41
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/21/2024 12:23:46 PM   
wicozani

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 8/15/2009
Status: offline 		We currently have 1,971 bottles in our cellar that are logged in CT. Plus two more 30-bottle batches of homemade kit wines. I have 3 more 6-gallon kits to make when the weather warms up a bit.

Plus, the Diamond Bin #3 in our cellar is for daily drinkers, which in our case means sub-$25. These do not get tracked.

Surprised to see that in 2023 CT shows we only consumed 194 bottles. But, many escape tracking for the reasons described above.

< Message edited by wicozani -- 2/23/2024 10:18:29 AM >

(in reply to lockestep)
Post #: 42
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/21/2024 7:43:55 PM   
bretrooks

 

Posts: 2870
Joined: 9/27/2009
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline 		I started tracking our little collection on CT in late 2009 with about 80 bottles; it's close to 4x that now (if you include the cases I have stashed away from a 2014 barrel project I participated in). We're continuing to slowly accumulate, gradually filling up a smallish offsite storage locker.

The significant majority of our bottles purchased has always been in the <$30 range. Up until this year, I could count on my fingers the number of bottles I've spent $50+ on...recent inflation is starting to change that, though.

Our wines stashed away are mostly reds - Rhones from all over, Italian reds (especially Nebbiolo), a bit of Bordeaux, Rioja, etc. The whites in storage are mostly Riesling, but there's also a little Chenin Blanc, a little Chablis... We like the variety.

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My Cellar

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Post #: 43
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/22/2024 12:50:21 PM   
#winewithryan

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 2/15/2024
Status: offline 		Musedir...wow i love your cellar..do you have spaces for the odd shaped and wider bottles?
We only come across those every so often but they aren't compatible with 95% of my setup currently so sit awkwardly or go into boxes for storage.

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 44
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/22/2024 4:29:49 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Magnums drive me nuts! And even red burgundy can be a pain.

_____________________________

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The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 45
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/22/2024 7:47:04 PM   
#winewithryan

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 2/15/2024
Status: offline 		My lesson for 2022 was ordering wine and I found one with a Magnum label. Didn't know what it meant until we picked it up...
I didn't come from a wine family and our local wine stores don't carry those so I felt like a noob when I realized what it was.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 46
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/23/2024 10:52:08 AM   
skifree

 

Posts: 3413
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan

Musedir...wow i love your cellar..do you have spaces for the odd shaped and wider bottles?
We only come across those every so often but they aren't compatible with 95% of my setup currently so sit awkwardly or go into boxes for storage.



I noticed MuseDir has diamond racks at the right of his picture. I too have those in my cellar and use them for odd bottle sizes such as mags, champagne, and the like. They are great because of their flexibility.

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So much wine, so little time

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Post #: 47
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/23/2024 7:51:42 PM   
#winewithryan

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 2/15/2024
Status: offline 		skifree: on my laptop monitor they appeared fuzzed out...and didn't notice until loaded this up on my son's computer with larger screen.
We had an Edizione Italian White Wine Blend that was wider than tall...good luck with my current setup storing properly. I saw a weird oval shaped Portuguese Rose bottle today when out wine shopping that looked like a pancake....not sure outside of storing upright what best to do with those weird shaped bottles.

(in reply to skifree)
Post #: 48
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/28/2024 10:25:16 PM   
MindMuse

 

Posts: 4327
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Talking Rock, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan

... I've entered a vortex of wines and wine lovers that will be hard to escape from!


You should consider this for a tagline.
Maybe we all should.

_____________________________

I've entered a vortex of wines and wine lovers that will be hard to escape from!

_____________________________

... she uncorked it and put it to her lips. "I know something interesting is sure to happen," she said to herself, "whenever I eat or drink anything; so I'll just see what this bottle does."
- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 49
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/29/2024 3:28:27 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: #winewithryan
I saw a weird oval shaped Portuguese Rose bottle today when out wine shopping that looked like a pancake....not sure outside of storing upright what best to do with those weird shaped bottles.

I could give you some suggestions with what to do with the kind of frizzante Portuguese rosé that comes in funny-shaped bottles. But it wouldn't involve drinking it at any stage of the process. I did in fact use one such bottle that unfortunately came into my possession for a slow-cooked Greek-style pork knuckle casserole, thus demonstrating that pretty much any kind of fermented grape juice, that hasn't totally turned to vinegar, is OK for such purposes, even if fizzy and slightly sweet.

Even those people who do allow frizzante Portuguese rosé to pass between their lips, mainly I suspect people who don't like proper wine, wouldn't lay it down at all. Straight from shopping bag to fridge.

So it really isn't an issue for the design of your cellar bins.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 50
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 2/29/2024 2:35:22 PM   
wadcorp

 

Posts: 9336
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		Welcome to the Forum, Ryan.

We have 234 bottles on hand. Used to be more, but we are slowly building things back up.

We generally replenish along the way. Finally back on a couple of lists after being off all of them for six years.

When we get wines, I try to hold them for a couple years, but that doesn't always work out.

In the sub-$50 range, I'd recommend wines from Bedrock, Vincent Arroyo, Rasa, Stolpman, Ojai.

.

_____________________________

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— Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

(in reply to #winewithryan)
Post #: 51
RE: How many wines do you all celllar? - 3/27/2024 5:46:00 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11425
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: musedir

about 1400 in cellar (and ready for winter tetris), which provides about 200-300 in the drinking platform for my Eurocave in the garage for dailies. Due to an illness that is ongoing and truly a pain in the ass, I am not drinking as much as I used to. Wines do last a mite longer than the suggested drinking windows.








Tom i do have to admire your organization. I believe I am running out of Tetris options so consumption may have to increase somehow someway.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 52
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