Community Tasting Note
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Collector1855 wrote: 91 points
August 17, 2014 - Switzerland as a wine producing county has several problems that make it difficult to find 90+ point wines from there. Most Swiss wine should be regarded as digestiv for Cheese Fondue or to make Ministers drunk quickly during Comptoir apéros, a cheers to the late Mr. Delamuraz... There are 3 reasons for that 1) in many areas the lesser grape varietals are used, Chasselas and Gamay (Chasselas is a table grape not a wine grape) and Gamay, well, I'd rather not comment. 2) most terroir is good to produce potatoes and mais but not wine and 3) unlike Austria the country never uses its quality scandals (eg, Giroud Vins) to weed out the many primitive, subsidized producers that are paid per liter and not quality.
Gantenbein is one of the few exceptions (others are some emerging leaders from the Merlot di Ticino movement). Tasting note: Medium-light red. Expressive nose of floral and red cherry notes with some sweet spices. There is noticeable oak as well. On the palate quite light bodied but with excellent balance and freshness. This goes towards Burgundy 1er Cru qualit. Great to see that they can pull this off from Bündner Herrschaft (=Heidi Land). The 2012 is even better.1 person found this helpful 8,304 views
13 Comments
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AHSpiritus commented:
8/17/14, 12:01 PM - sorry, but if you don't have any knowledge of swiss wine and swiss winemaking, please don't write such ***.
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Collector1855 commented:
8/17/14, 4:55 PM - I have, I am from there and it is a shame for all of us what they produce in our country, with very few exceptions. I is a simple as that. BTW, the proof is in the pudding. Almost no Swiss wine can get high ratings and almost none can be successfully exported. So my advice to you and all my fellow Swiss is: If you are still passionate about it, go improve it instead of trying to defend its mediocrity. Santé!
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AHSpiritus commented:
8/18/14, 4:42 AM - So, you're not from Luxembourg (as your Profile says), you're from Switzerland - that doesn't say anything about your knowledge. And if I see what you've written, I'm surprised. Then: you should know, that the most Swiss wine is drunken by the Swiss People. Very high quality with a good q/p-range you can find in cantons of Aargau (f.e. Meier, Hartmann, ...), Graubünden (Wegelin, Grünenfelder, ...), Tessin (von der Krone, Huber, ...), Wallis (Chappaz, Mathier, ...), Thurgau/Schaffhausen (Bachtobel...) and so on. Ratings: you're talking about Parkerpoints? Yes, there are only a few. BUT: in tastings, Swiss wine won a lot, even against Petrus & Co... (f.e. Vinattieri)... Santé!
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IB71 commented:
8/19/14, 12:59 PM - No Swiss wine has yet been rated by Parker & Co., which makes your reasoning somewhat absurd. Surprisingly, this may change in near future, as Swiss wines will be covered in the October issue 2014 of Wine Advocate. FYI, however, David Schildknecht of Wine Advocate has recently characterized better versions of chasselas as - quoting - "among the most distinctively and irresistibly delicious whites on earth".
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Collector1855 commented:
8/23/14, 6:55 PM - Your confusion of your own acquired taste vs. the collective opinion of the market reminds me of a dinner discussion when I was a student in California back in the 80ies. A Polish student argued with an Italian guy that Polish food was just as good as Italian food. To the relief of all others at the table, the heated debate came to an end when a American student all of a sudden asked: And how may Polish restaurants exist outside of Poland?
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IB71 commented:
8/23/14, 10:38 PM - Wrong again. You start your review by claiming that Swiss wines rarely recieves 90+ scores. No shit Sherlock - they never get rated at all! Therefore the whole premise of your argument is very weak. It is basically your own negative view on Swiss wine that you seek to justify, rather than that of any critic. Later you claim that chasselas is a table grape - and therefore unsuitable for fine wine production. No logic there either, as the first quality does not automatically rule out the second - i.e. muscats. And what is this about me confusing my own acquired taste with those of others? Sorry, I don't get it...
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Collector1855 commented:
8/24/14, 12:46 AM - Time for you to go back to the drawing board for you as well. Look at my original points once again and instead of getting emotional, embark on understand them, all three, plus the positive trend on Gantenbein and a few other quality renegades. Study the wine industry, quality, prices, local & international demand, tasting notes or the absence there of, reasons for it. Then buy some oenology books, understand grape varieties, terroir types, production methods, etc. (On grape varieties, which seems to be your forte, may I recommend for example Jancis' 1250 page thick industry standard "wine grapes", p229). You know, it is not impossible to get knowledgeable about wine, but it is a bit of work. You will then slowly see how the facts unfortunately get in the way of your points... leider ä bizzeli lästig.
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IB71 commented:
8/24/14, 2:11 AM - "You know, it is not impossible to get knowledgeable in wine, but it is a bit of work though." No need to get emotional, eh? Patronising comments like that says it all for me - you're simply not worth wasting time on.
But now that you have brought in Jancis Robinson et al.'s book (which - surprise, surprise! - is in my house too), I will end my contribution to this "debate" by quoting an equally respected wine writer, namely Hugh Johnson: "Watch out for Chasselas. After successes of indigenous grapes, Chasselas is next." (Pocket Wine Guide 2014). In the same book Dézaley (FYI the epicentre of chasselas) is rated 3-4 four stars (same as Meursault), while Dézaley top-producer, Louis Bovard, is rated 4 stars (same as Coche-Dury). Hugh Johnson clearly needs to consult your highness, as he fails to understand, that Chasselas is just a table grape. Over and out. -
Collector1855 commented:
8/24/14, 2:21 AM - Enjoy reading p. 229 then - best with a glass of Chasselas...
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boillatm commented:
10/10/21, 9:34 AM - Good evening. I came across this note as I would like to share a bottle of this wine with a good friend of mine that has never tasted a Gantenbein wine. This will be a first for me too.
Having a look at the heated discussion from 7 years ago, I was wondering what is your current view on the quality of Swiss wines. I am Swiss myself but was never so convinced about our local production. However, there seems to be a move toward more quality and I think for example that with regard to Pinot noir, a lot is going on especially in the German speaking part.
That said, based on this article https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/swiss-wines-home-and-abroad, there is still a lot of work to do!
And yeah, Chasselas will always taste awful. -
Collector1855 commented:
10/10/21, 10:10 PM - Hi, good questions and yes there are some good news. While 90% (down from may be 95%) of all Swiss wines are still cheap quaffers there are more quality producers today. The core issue of the country remains because the industry structure is set-up to produce lousy wine. The two largest wine producing cantons Vaud/Valais still have cooperative systems in place where you deliver grapes by the kg and not by quality. All these guys deliberately produce apero quaffers. They continue to lobby heavily in Bern to get protected from foreign wines. Just recently did an outrageous bid wanting to force all wine importers to also buy Swiss wine... In short, they are terrible people who have no interest whatsoever to produce quality wine, just to make easy money. Switzerland, like Beaujolais will therefore always suffer from "bad branding" because the ratio of lousy vs. good wine is unfavorable. HOWEVER, and is is a big however, the list of producers who are fed up and do things differently has steadily grown and now we have many names beyond Gantenbein: Donatsch, Studach, Fromm, Eichholz etc. for Pinot, Germanier for Syrah, Zuendl, Monti for Merlot di Ticino, Chappaz for indigenous whites, to name a few. The most sought after Swiss wine today comes from Neuchatel, hey presto! It's a top Pinot Noir. I tasted it a few times, very difficult to find: Jacques Tatasciore's "Domaine de la Rochette, Pinot Noir Les Rissieux". It regularly auctions for >300 CHF.
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boillatm commented:
10/16/21, 1:41 PM - Good evening. Thanks for your very interesting response. I'll ask you again in 7 years ;).
We had the Gantenbein yesterday and I really enjoyed it even though I am not so fond of Pinot noir. It was followed by a Haut-Bailly 1990 that was sublime. Looking at the TNs for that wine, I believe you liked it as well :) -
Collector1855 commented:
10/16/21, 7:01 PM - Yes, Haut Billy is a great wine. I actually worked there in a sabbatical in 2006. Love the Chateau and the team around Veronique. Pinot is an acquired taste. Like most of us, I started out with CabSav, Merlot and Syrah. I noticed that most people who get the hook on Pinot almost exclusively consume Pinto for 2-3 months and that re-calibrate their palate. I had that phase too. It did the trick. You become more used to a red wine that feels like a white wine on the palate. You also get used to more fruit and less oak. I remember drinking a very good Pontet Canet after having had lots of Pinot for a while and my first reaction was: Is this from Chile? Why is there so much oak? It took me a few glasses to calibrate back to Bordeaux. Such is the wine journey :-)