Community Tasting Note

• Badmonkey wrote: 95 points

  August 19, 2017 - Although awfully young for a Howell Mtn cab, I'm considering buying more to lay down but wanted to see where this vintage is at first. Primarily dark black fruit with a touch of red - blackberry, dark currants, and a little dark cherry. Smooth mid-palate coupled with nice depth and flavors of dark berries and a little spice. Fairly long/deep finish. Decanted for three hours and drank over another two. Improved a little with time. According to WS, best from 2018 through 2030, however, I'm inclined to give this vintage at least another one to two years because it's a big wine and the fruit needs some more time to soften-up. I believe Parker under-estimated this wine with his 93 rating. In my opinion, more so in line with the WS rating of 95 - although I also expect it to get better with more time. 100% cab.

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24 Comments

• RayT commented:

  8/19/17, 8:36 AM - Badmonkey I am a big Howell Mountain fan and had been considering buying this also. Most Howell Mountain wines are in the $80 to $100 range. Do you think this was worth the extra money. The only Tor I have drank was their regular cab and it was just ok for what I paid for it.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/19/17, 9:25 AM - RayT, I hear you. I personally don't like paying over $100 for a cab unless it is derived from Beckstoffer or I know for a fact it is of similar quality. I've exchanged notes with Csimm in the past that for whatever reason you can usually find Tor's higher-end cabs at discounted prices in the secondary market especially through winebid. I know some individuals are reluctant/hesitant to use winebid because of concerns about storage and care otherwise but knock on wood I've had really good luck. I actually unloaded 7 cases a couple years ago and took the proceeds on credit. Nonetheless, winebid has the 2014 Tor Cimarossa at $85 which with their premium is around $100 which is a pretty good price and worth it in my opinion.

• RayT commented:

  8/19/17, 5:53 PM - Badmonkey thanks for the info. I have yet to buy wine on bid. I have been contemplating it but I have been concerned with buying flawed wine. I am ok with getting a bad bottle occasionally as long as the discounts pick up the difference. $85 is definitely a good price for that wine. I will have to start giving it more serious consideration.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/19/17, 7:37 PM - Once again, I've had a really good experience with winebid, however, I can understand and appreciate anyone's apprehension. For what it's worth, they did thoroughly examine the bottles that I sold.

• michigan dogs commented:

  8/20/17, 5:59 PM - badmonkey, I have yet to open the first of my case. I bought on the WS review, although I have had great luck with Tor, and beli1eve they compete well with premium Napa cabs. Too old to drink cheap wine!

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/20/17, 6:28 PM - Michigan dogs, I'm jealous that you have a case of Tor. I picked-up a couple bottles of the Cimarossa and To-Kalon but I'm thinking about buying more. I've always enjoyed the style of their higher-end cabs. Take care.

• bplant13 commented:

  8/20/17, 8:10 PM - So great to hear Badmonkey! I discovered and fell in love with Tor after I came across the 2011 Cimarossa which I found at Total Wine for $75, and have been hooked ever since. Their mailing list is overpriced and I'm of the same thought to get them through secondary markets (although the wine shop in my office building has the 13 Cim at $175). I've got some 12s, 13s, and one 14, as I try to grab at least one or two from each vineyard every vintage, but I may have to look to add one or two more of the 14 Cim! :)

• bplant13 commented:

  8/20/17, 8:13 PM - @RayT, I've been buying off of Winebid for 3 years now, purchasing well over a 200 bottles, and drinking at least 50-75 of them, and have never had a bad wine. I typically stick to recently released wines, but even a 1997 Brunello last year was in perfect shape.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 5:14 AM - bplant13, I really like the profile of the 14 Cimarossa - although it will clearly benefit from a couple years. I actually picked-up another bottle from winebid last night. Hopefully I continue to have the same luck with that service. As you also noted, I've purchased quite a bit of wine through winebid and thankfully I haven't had a bad bottle yet.

• RayT commented:

  8/21/17, 7:59 AM - Bplant13 thanks for the info on winebid. I am a numbers guy so that is comforting that you have bought that many bottles with no issues. You guys have convinced me to give it a try. I have followed a few threads about Tor saying it can be had on the secondary market for a reduced price.

• csimm commented:

  8/21/17, 10:56 AM - I just saw this thread... Funny. I just bought two bottles of the '14 Tor Cimarossa last night from WineBid. I saw Badmonkey's bid on there too but I didn't want to overbid him on his bottle :)

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 11:32 AM - csimm, I noticed your bids towards the end of the day as well. I usually don't put in bids that early but there were 6 bottles at $85 and it was my daughter's birthday so I figured I would bid on one. I was planning to bid on another but I didn't get a chance to get online before the bidding was over - I usually wait towards the very end of the auction. I'm surprised the price dropped that low. Have you ever had Anthem's Beckstoffer Las Piedras cab? I noticed a bunch of bottles for the 2012 vintage on winebid at $80 which is a pretty good price for a Beckstoffer Las Piedras cab. Jeff Ames is the winemaker. WS rated it 93 points but I don't trust WS. Unfortunately Parker didn't rate that vintage.

• csimm commented:

  8/21/17, 12:21 PM - I haven't had Anthem. I honestly haven't been fully impressed with Ames' wines outside of Tor (and even some of the Tor wines are spotty in my opinion). The Tor BTK Cab and the Cimarossa are the two I feel safe with. Some others (e.g.: Melanson) have been worth purchasing, too. Rudius, for example, has had a couple of quasi-hits, but a lot of misses. I really like Jeff, but I wouldn't say I follow him as a winemaker the way I might follow Mike Smith, TRB, Pott, or Bevan. But even with those folks, I don't like all of what they do. Anyway, that sub-$100 pricepoint is really nice if you can find a gem here and there. I don't trust Wine Spectator either, so I'm not sure if Anthem would be a good wine. LPV is obviously a good site, but I just recently had two bad experiences with good sites but not good end product in the wine: Lithology BTK and World's End Missouri Hopper - no bueno at all!

• michigan dogs commented:

  8/21/17, 12:47 PM - A friend just closed on his home, so we will be opening a Tor Cimarossa amoung others. Welcome to join us tonight if you live within 100 miles of Bloomfield Hills, Mi. A couple big wine geeks will be in attendence

• michigan dogs commented:

  8/21/17, 12:50 PM - Badmonkey, I just saw your comment that you trust Parker over WS. I don't trust Parker's rating on anything. It is one reason I'm on Cellar tracker.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 12:50 PM - I noticed your note on the World's End Missouri Hopper. I had a 2013 World's End Money Talks Beckstoffer Georges III cab yesterday and I was underwhelmed. I only paid $50 a bottle through wineaccess so it wasn't terrible for the price but nowhere near the quality of Myriad or Alpha Omega. I believe it's probably more about the winemaker's Bordeaux style - it clearly needs more time. However, I'll likely refrain from buying their cabs going forward. Take care.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 1:00 PM - Michigan dogs, when are you planning on holding this tasting? As I believe I mentioned before, I coach high school soccer and the season recently started so the evenings are difficult right now. As for Parker, I don't always agree with him but I believe my palate and preference for big/bold cabs aligns more with his tastes than anyone else. With WS, I find their ratings to be awfully inconsistent and I believe Galloni/Vinous tends to favor more of an "old world" profile which isn't usually my thing.

• RayT commented:

  8/21/17, 1:03 PM - Badmonkey I probably agree with you. I also drank a 2013 World's End if six was nine which was actually a decent bottle for $30 but I have had no inclination to drink another bottle as it was on the boring side.

• michigan dogs commented:

  8/21/17, 1:07 PM - Badmonkey, last minute celebration, doing it tonight. My kids, now the grandchildren, are all serious soccer players. Each of my kids played on State championship teams in soccer.

• RayT commented:

  8/21/17, 1:40 PM - Michigan Dogs I am with Badmonkey about going with Parker. It is mostly about the palate. He likes big and bold and if it can be drunk early so much the better. That usually fits my tasting preferences but I have for sure had some misses from him. I use CT in a similar fashion. I find people who enjoy a similar style of wine as I do then use their cellar and tasting notes as a way to find new wines. Enjoy your wine!

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 4:48 PM - RayT, it's interesting to me that the source for many of the World's End wines are from some highly respected vineyards and they are able to keep the costs down. However, the quality isn't what I would expect from those vineyards - at least the ones that I've had so far. Although once again, I believe a lot of that has to do with the winemaker's style. I have a couple more bottles of the Money Talks - hopefully they come around with some more time.

• Badmonkey commented:

  8/21/17, 4:51 PM - Michigan dogs, as always, please keep me in mind with future tastings - I'm determined to make one sooner than later. Impressive in regards to the soccer accomplishments. My oldest daughter got to the State Cup semi-finals last year but unfortunately no championship. Hopefully this year. Take care.

• bplant13 commented:

  8/22/17, 7:22 PM - CT is just as, if not more powerful than the pros... You find the ones that have a similar palette and latch on! That's why I'm conversing with you fine gents!!! ;)

• csimm commented:

  8/22/17, 8:33 PM - I couldn't agree more. Thanks all for the exchange of information and the valuable feedback on your experiences with these wines. Always much appreciated!

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