Community Tasting Note

• Decanting Queen Does not like this wine: 88 points

  November 25, 2021 - This was the disappointment of the evening and I really can’t understand the high scores. I saved half the bottle (it was that bad..) so I will try again tonight and re-score if it improves.
  Very closed on opening, didn’t really open up until about 3-4 hours in the decanter. Nursed a glass or two over the next few hours so it had up to 6 hours of air and was never particularly good.
  Some nice dark fruit, but not much structure or backbone. Almost syrupy sweet (dare I say new Caymus) at times, with a strange taste on the finish. Seemed bitter or cough syrupy to me. Paul thought it was more of a green/woody aftertaste although I didn’t get anything green. He also commented that it tasted like one of his 5.99 bargain buys. But even then he didn’t finish his glass (and he will drink a 5.99 wine)
  This bottle did not taste like it had an obvious flaw or heat shock. Just not good. And maybe something in the blend giving it that lingering aftertaste (too unpleasant to call it a finish).
  As I said, I will try again tonight and stay open minded!!

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33 Comments

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  11/26/21, 8:24 AM - I was underwhelmed by the 16 when comparing it to previous vintages. Hopefully yours was just an off bottle.

• TXRDW commented:

  11/26/21, 12:20 PM - Funny, but I tried a bottle about a week ago and the same Caymus comparison came to mind. Hoping the sweetness wears off in a few years.

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  11/26/21, 2:58 PM - I just bought some 18 Mt. Brave for $68 thought distribution. Either of you tried yet? WS 95 I had to check it out.

• TXRDW commented:

  11/26/21, 3:49 PM - Never tried it. Seems like their Veeder is also highly regarded. Have you tried either wine?

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  11/26/21, 4:02 PM - Not that I recall. I do like the wine maker Chris Carpenter. He leans towards the more structured wines that will need a decent amount of time to come together.

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/26/21, 7:18 PM - Prior to the ‘15 vintage, The Mascot needed a 24 hour full decant to hit its stride. Perhaps it’s back to its old ways? Looking forward to getting my case in another week or two.

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/27/21, 7:46 AM - I have to say this was significantly better on day 2. The sweetness seemed to have receded and the tannins had a bit more grip. I would not buy more personally, but if I did a longer decant makes sense although feels counterintuitive when you try it on the first day

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/27/21, 7:51 AM - Great input DQ! I’ll likely do a 12ish hour decant with the first bottle (around Christmas ). Cheers y’all!

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/27/21, 7:56 AM - Jaime—very curious to get your thoughts. I think you will like the longer decanted version for sure.

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  11/27/21, 3:12 PM - DQ, final score with consideration to day two?

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/28/21, 6:28 AM - MJP—tough one, maybe crept up to a 91? Some nice things about it on day 2 but still the funny lingering (bitter?) taste?

• #1Winelover commented:

  11/28/21, 8:36 AM - I had a bottle and was very -- very underwhelmed. I did work with it (decanted for 6 hours and since it still wasn't good, left it in the decanted for 3 more hours) but it really only improved slightly. I ended up pouring 1/3 of it down the drain and found another bottle. I just think that The Mascot is not for me. I liked -- but didn't love -- the '14 and '15. I'm going to sell my other bottles.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  11/28/21, 9:58 AM - #1...you have used it for making a pasta sauce rather than pouring it down the drain!
  
  DQ, I have one bottle of Mascot in my cellar, I think a '14 (yes, too lazy to look it up) and four bottles of Maiden....I have yet to taste either....but I do love Harlan, so I will be curious! I know you have had Harlan before, so I am guessing no resemblance whatsoever?

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/28/21, 10:47 AM - The ‘14 Mascot can still handle an 8+ hour decant. Cheers IRBDW!

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/28/21, 10:48 AM - #1 glad to know it isn’t my imagination, but it is a shame that this one didn’t deliver

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/28/21, 10:49 AM - Jason, I haven’t had the ‘14 but from what I have heard it is better than this ‘16. And sadly I don’t think it compares to the Harlan estate. I haven’t tried The Maiden…

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  11/28/21, 2:27 PM - I am surprised Jennifer....I would have thought 16 the better vintage...wonder what happened...I would suspect bad bottle, but from the comments it sounds like too many have shared your experience...too bad.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  11/28/21, 2:27 PM - Cheers Elvis!

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/28/21, 9:47 PM - DQ, I'm surprised, and yet not. I haven't tried one yet, but I had the feeling, given the power of the '14 and '15 that in '16 this could be quite something to behold. I have been disappointed with a few other '16s and '18s but as an afterthought, it came to me that they just weren't ready yet. Do you remember me ragging on one and scoring it quite low and you gently/diplomatically making note that it was probably my fault for opening and scoring it when it just wasn't ready yet? As powerful as these '14s and '15s have been and with the longish decants of 6-24 hours, I was already suspecting that the '16 wouldn't see the light of day from my cellar for at least another year. Hell, I still haven't had the guts to crack a '13 open yet and I know I've voiced to you before that I thought the '18s from Napa were '13s on steroids! It very well could be that this '16 Mascot is comparable to some of the really good '18 Napa cabs and just needs a lot of time? From your note it sounds like it's one of the most disjointed and off putting wines you've had, in forever! I just can't believe these guys could mess up the '16 vintage.....I have a ton of respect for this winemaking team and their fruit. I find it really strange that in a time when others from Napa are releasing their '18s and '19s, these guys have just released their '16s. I think this is really just going to take a lot of time and probably play out like a lot of our '18s are right now. This fruit is just THAT good! This will probably be a long term holder in the cellar, for me.
  
  As an aside, it's funny that they are admittedly for the first time ever, rushing out the '17 vintage this past week to their mailing list. A VERY early release for them, their first ever. I think they know this '16 is going to take time and reading between the lines of their mailing, it's clear the '17 is as ready as it's ever gonna be, so why hold it back from the consumer any longer? Looks like they really want to move the '17s out of their cellar asap. I'm sure they have a crap-ton of '18 waiting in the wings. I cannot fathom how long it will take for that vintage to be drinkable given their standards, their style and the fruit from '18.

• Decanting Queen commented:

  11/29/21, 7:25 AM - Mark, this did not seem like the ‘18 big wine problem. I have had many disjointed unintegrated ‘18s, even some I haven’t rated. But it was clear they needed time. This ‘16 just wasn’t good (to my palate). I hope others have better luck!!! I was beyond disappointed for the price (and I paid retail so not your allocation price)

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/29/21, 7:29 AM - Once I get my bottles, I’ll taste upon opening , at 12 hours, and at 20 hours. I’ll then be able to assess the situation. Y’all have me scared, but typical Mascot needs a full 18+ hour decant in its youth. ‘15 was the only anomaly.

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/29/21, 7:37 AM - I believe you, Jen. I'm just hoping it was a one off.....but I do get a trifle worried when a wine starts showing up early in the secondary retail market after not selling out like it normally would, from the winery, on release.

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/29/21, 7:40 AM - Jaime, I'll be awaiting your thoughts on it, too. I really was thinking of holding them another year.

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/29/21, 7:41 AM - There was a lot more ‘16 than ‘15, so the sales in the secondary market don’t trouble me.

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/29/21, 7:47 AM - Yes J, I know....as much as 50% more but I would have thought, especially coming off a short crop and sitting on a bad year's '17, in their cellars, that the great '16 vintage would have had exessive demand! Apparently, not so?

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  11/29/21, 8:19 AM - I will try to remember to ask when I visit, but I wonder if they use the. same vineyards fr Mascot as they do with Maiden and Harlan Estates? If so, maybe they used more grapes to produce the other wines and much lesser quality grapes were used for Mascot? Is that possible? Just thinking out loud here, and truthfully, I am clueless about how they allocate their grapes/vineyards for each of their wines...I am almost positive they have a different vineyard for the Napa Reserve, but no idea about Maiden or Mascot....

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/29/21, 8:31 AM - Jason, Mascot comes from the leftover grapes of Promontory, Bond and Harlan. I get the message that the mix of vineyards/grapes can change in any given year according to what they use up in the big wines, first.

• AGELVIS commented:

  11/29/21, 8:51 AM - Same vineyards, but the youngest vines…

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  11/29/21, 10:42 AM - Wow....didn't realize they came from all three properties, especially since all three have their own designated wines and although all were/are Harlan properties, they all seem pretty autonomous....I wonder if Mascot sources grapes elsewhere too then?

• Mark1npt commented:

  11/29/21, 4:55 PM - Not to my knowledge...Mascot is Will Harlan's project so all the grapes come from Dad!

• sfbikeguy commented:

  12/2/21, 8:57 PM - Missed today’s Zoom tasting. Any further comments from anyone? I have not picked up my 16s yet. BTW, I’m in the ‘23 hour decant’ camp with the exception of the 2015…. Full disclosure, have not opened a Mascot in a while. Will do for the holidays.

• Mark1npt commented:

  12/2/21, 10:27 PM - sfbg, my '16s just recently arrived. Did not do the zoom today. Not sure why they'd do a zoom with you drinking the '16(which apparently is not ready for prime time yet)to tout the '17, unless they are panicking that nobody out there is going to buy the '17?
  
  I have said for years that Napa SHOULD adopt the BDX pricing structure. We may pay more in the good vintages, but should be expected to pay significantly less for the bad ones. I have yet to find a '17 that is worth its price. And the critics really can't be trusted either. I had a '17 Spottswoode at a big tasting in Austin a while back and it struggled to make a 90, while LPBrown gave it 97+ and others rated it even higher? Sheesh! The high scores must have been for 'effort' in a bad year! I'm sure in a year this '16 will come around and still need a really long decant to do so. I'll be avoiding the '17 like the plague.......

• AGELVIS commented:

  12/3/21, 12:25 AM - I watched the Zoom tasting. They were definitely trying to make the ‘17 seem like it was really special (and rare). They are even doing a full slate of ‘20 bottles because they picked before the second wave of fires. Something is certainly weird. I’ll be skipping the very special ‘17 vintage. Cheers y’all!

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