2015 Domaine Courbis St. Joseph Les Royes

Community Tasting Note

blackcrowb wrote:

85 Points

Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - As a fan of the northern Rhone for decades, St Joe was always one of my favorites because there was no economic sense in new barrels so it always had the purest fruit. While this has a beguiling bouquet of raspberry, raw meat and hot tar the overwhelming oaky barrel taste on the palate is a kick to the family jewels. Exhibit A for Parkerization

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Comment posted by samatoid:

9/18/2019 5:21:00 AM - Does your aversion to oak extend to 1st growth Bordeaux, Guigal, virtually all top Spanish wines, etc...? Its a delicious wine now (though a tad bitter from the oak) , but it will improve with age. Even Jancis Robinson doesnt heckle the wine for this reason - she liked it quite a bit. It is helpful to me sometimes when a wine gets trashed since I can then pick alot up cheaply (which is true in this case $28), but it still seems unfair.
Comment posted by blackcrowb:

9/18/2019 7:48:00 AM - I find the Guigal La-Las all but undrinkable. They taste more of oak than retsina taste of pine. Even when the oak integrates it still hits a fake note for me. The last time I bought Lafite it cost me 45. dollars so I can't comment on modern iterations. Numanthia's 200% new oak doesn't need comment as well. My philistine preferences have served my pocketbook well. I have always preferred regular bottlings to riservas, house versions of Champagnes over vintage and when I was more of a scotch drinker none of the single malts ever tasted as good as a Dewars on the rocks.
I don't like it either when someone disagrees with my taste. I have had to deal with a lot of people telling me a wine I like stinks, especially from my wife.
Comment posted by samatoid:

9/18/2019 10:46:00 AM - Thanks blackcrowb. I have run into people who criticize winemakers for heavy use of oak, but I dont often see Guigal tagged for it. I personally think his regular Condieu is overoaked. Domaine de Chevalier certainly doesnt skimp on the oak - I am waiting for mine to integrate - I think will be an excellent wine eventually(I see you liked the 2009).
Anyway you appear to be somewhat consistent in hating oak, but it is not just Parker who likes it when used well.
Comment posted by samatoid:

4/30/2021 3:31:00 PM - The aversion to oak seems to me very much like the fad of hating gluten. In both cases there is truth. But for me I like both.
Comment posted by blackcrowb:

4/30/2021 4:31:00 PM - I have owned a bakery for over 30 years so gluten has been at the top of my food pyramid for that long. For many years I bought a 1000lbs of grapes and made my daily drinking wine. One year I decided to class it up by adding toasted oak chips. One handful became two became 3 .....Anyway I tried to drink the 50 gallons I had destroyed and ever since even barely delectable oak makes me nauseous. A home wine making idol once said" you can age your wine in wood or in glass but you will always prefer glass." More winemakers should take that advise. Thanks for your comment.
Comment posted by blackcrowb:

4/30/2021 6:20:00 PM - Oops, that's not how food pyramids work.
Comment posted by samatoid:

4/30/2021 7:12:00 PM - A baker and a winemaker! I'm sure you know most grapes can't handle oak well, but that doesn't mean that oak never makes a wine interesting. I would guess that the grapes that could handle oak well would be fairly expensive if available at all?