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Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 9:20:23 AM

WineGuyCO

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So I just ordered some wines from California. Temperatures here in Colorado the next 8 days will be between 52-62 during the day but 23-37 at night. I talked to Benchmark about what happens to the Wine during the evening and they said it usually stays in one of their facilities. The wine is also boxed and with styrofoam.

Do you think it’s Ok to ship or not worth it because of the low evening temperatures and the risk the wine might NOT be in a facility at night and might still be in a truck. What do you all think? Ship or Hold. I would like to try a couple of these wines over the Holidays. If I wait it’s going to be cold during the days also so I have a short window here. Thanks.

Rick

Post #: 1

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 9:26:43 AM

CranBurgundy

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Better to have low temps than high. I think you have a perfect shipping window according to your numbers.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 9:30:56 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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Wine won't freeze at those temperatures. "Normal" freeze point is 15-20F, depending on alcohol content, residual sugar. Insulation of the package as you describe matter too, but I would not worry about it until 24 hour temps are in the sub-20F range. Super cold, but not freezing, should not damage the wine in the short term.

Caveat: I say this as someone who has frozen 5 gallon carboys at a time by leaving it unprotected on a back patio. Oops

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 9:36:33 AM

CranBurgundy

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Winesicles!

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Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

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Post #: 4

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 9:42:35 AM

WineGuyCO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinCowiche

Wine won't freeze at those temperatures. "Normal" freeze point is 15-20F, depending on alcohol content, residual sugar. Insulation of the package as you describe matter too, but I would not worry about it until 24 hour temps are in the sub-20F range. Super cold, but not freezing, should not damage the wine in the short term.

Caveat: I say this as someone who has frozen 5 gallon carboys at a time by leaving it unprotected on a back patio. Oops

Chris...Thanks for this. Info about the wine freezing temps is very helpful. I’m going to have them ship it based on this. I figured the wine wasn’t going to freeze. Now I will be able to try over the holidays.

Cranburgundy...LOL. The first thing I thought of. I’ve never had a Burgundy Popsicle

Rick

(in reply to ChrisinCowiche)

Post #: 5

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 11:53:55 AM

KPB

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I actually never have problems during the winter and don't even think about it these days. But I do one small thing that makes a difference to me.

If you think about how shipping works in the winter, because many products would break if they freeze, companies are using pretty well-insulated shipping containers. This goes for the wine itself, and actually for the larger cross-country trucks too. So your wine isn't going to freeze out on some highway in an 18-wheeler. Similarly, at the FedEx or UPS warehouse, the workers themselves don't want to freeze, so they will have some form of heating in the space where the parcels are shuffled around. It may get fairly nippy but the wine won't actually freeze up and push the cork out or explode the bottle or something.

This makes the big risk the very last step: when the truck spends an entire day in -3F weather wandering all over the whole county before getting to your house as the absolute last stop. That could be 8 hours in really frigid conditions.

Solution: I always go to the tracker web page (I have logins now for UPS and FedEx) and click to hold my wine at a nearby location. Both will hold it for 5 working days, which is plenty of time. Then I run by their customer service counter and collect it at my convenience. And those places are at a sensible temperature - maybe a bit warm, but not so warm that damage could ever occur.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 11:57:33 AM

CranBurgundy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This makes the big risk the very last step: when the truck spends an entire day in -3F weather wandering all over the whole county before getting to your house as the absolute last stop. That could be 8 hours in really frigid conditions.

Solution: I always go to the tracker web page (I have logins now for UPS and FedEx) and click to hold my wine at a nearby location. Both will hold it for 5 working days, which is plenty of time. Then I run by their customer service counter and collect it at my convenience. And those places are at a sensible temperature - maybe a bit warm, but not so warm that damage could ever occur.

Bingo. My nearest FedEx store is 1.1 miles away, and closest UPS pick-up location is just 4 miles away. I'm in there so often that I'm on a first name basis with most of the staff.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 7

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/11/2019 12:02:10 PM

WineGuyCO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This makes the big risk the very last step: when the truck spends an entire day in -3F weather wandering all over the whole county before getting to your house as the absolute last stop. That could be 8 hours in really frigid conditions.

Solution: I always go to the tracker web page (I have logins now for UPS and FedEx) and click to hold my wine at a nearby location. Both will hold it for 5 working days, which is plenty of time. Then I run by their customer service counter and collect it at my convenience. And those places are at a sensible temperature - maybe a bit warm, but not so warm that damage could ever occur.

Bingo. My nearest FedEx store is 1.1 miles away, and closest UPS pick-up location is just 4 miles away. I'm in there so often that I'm on a first name basis with most of the staff.

I always do this now. That is...……..have the wine sent to my nearest FedEx or UPS location. In the case of FedEx it is less than a mile and UPS a little over a mile. Thanks for all of the responses everyone.

Rick

(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 8

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 4:00:45 PM

penguinoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinCowiche

Wine won't freeze at those temperatures. "Normal" freeze point is 15-20F, depending on alcohol content, residual sugar. Insulation of the package as you describe matter too, but I would not worry about it until 24 hour temps are in the sub-20F range. Super cold, but not freezing, should not damage the wine in the short term.

Caveat: I say this as someone who has frozen 5 gallon carboys at a time by leaving it unprotected on a back patio. Oops

Chris...Thanks for this. Info about the wine freezing temps is very helpful. I’m going to have them ship it based on this. I figured the wine wasn’t going to freeze. Now I will be able to try over the holidays.

Cranburgundy...LOL. The first thing I thought of. I’ve never had a Burgundy Popsicle

Rick

I guess you all remember this picture that was on a lot of wine sites last year? An actual Burgundy popsicle

http://www.grapewallofchina.com/2018/02/17/drc-in-the-prc-ice-sculpture-frozen-treat-or-usd15k-shipping-error/

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 5:55:10 PM

mtpisgah

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From: South Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinCowiche

Wine won't freeze at those temperatures. "Normal" freeze point is 15-20F, depending on alcohol content, residual sugar. Insulation of the package as you describe matter too, but I would not worry about it until 24 hour temps are in the sub-20F range. Super cold, but not freezing, should not damage the wine in the short term.

Caveat: I say this as someone who has frozen 5 gallon carboys at a time by leaving it unprotected on a back patio. Oops

Chris...Thanks for this. Info about the wine freezing temps is very helpful. I’m going to have them ship it based on this. I figured the wine wasn’t going to freeze. Now I will be able to try over the holidays.

Cranburgundy...LOL. The first thing I thought of. I’ve never had a Burgundy Popsicle

Rick

I guess you all remember this picture that was on a lot of wine sites last year? An actual Burgundy popsicle

http://www.grapewallofchina.com/2018/02/17/drc-in-the-prc-ice-sculpture-frozen-treat-or-usd15k-shipping-error/

I had not seen that before today. That bottle obviously went through much worse conditions than typical shipping in the USA, or anywhere. Would the wine have been ok if they had let it thaw before opening it? Assuming to did not come out do the box already broken?

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 6:49:19 PM

WineGuyCO

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I’ve never seen that picture either but it’s too painful to look at. I thought 8€ for a scoop of gelato in Oia Santorini Greece was bad.

Rick

(in reply to mtpisgah)

Post #: 11

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 8:21:28 PM

mclancy10006

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From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
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that is an $11,000 popsicle...
-M

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Post #: 12

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 10:24:36 PM

penguinoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah

I had not seen that before today. That bottle obviously went through much worse conditions than typical shipping in the USA, or anywhere. Would the wine have been ok if they had let it thaw before opening it? Assuming to did not come out do the box already broken?

As a guess, I'd say the bottle broke as a result of the wine freezing. Unlike most liquids, water expands when it freezes -- hence why cold weather can damage household plumbing. My explanation for this is "something something hydrogen bonding something something".

It's quite possible the wine would still have been drinkable if thawed carefully and drunk immediately (though again, I'm guessing) but I doubt you'd have been able to keep it for any length of time.

I think the weather in northern China -- especially north-western China -- can be very extreme, with both extreme hot and cold conditions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

I’ve never seen that picture either but it’s too painful to look at. I thought 8€ for a scoop of gelato in Oia Santorini Greece was bad.

Painful is the right word...

< Message edited by penguinoid -- 11/12/2019 10:25:57 PM >

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 10:37:14 PM

recotte

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I've accidentally frozen a beer when forgetting about it after putting it in the freezer for "just 20 minutes" to chill, and I can tell you, after thawing, it just don't taste right. Part of that is the loss of carbonation, but I think the alcohol separates from the water and solids when freezing, due to the different freezing points, so when it thaws, it just isn't right. I imagine the same problem may occur after defrosting the DRC-sicle.

As for the shipping conditions that Rick is inquiring about, the only additional note is that exposure to cold temperatures may result in the formation of tartrate crystals in the bottle, which are innocuous.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/12/2019 11:18:51 PM

penguinoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

I've accidentally frozen a beer when forgetting about it after putting it in the freezer for "just 20 minutes" to chill, and I can tell you, after thawing, it just don't taste right. Part of that is the loss of carbonation, but I think the alcohol separates from the water and solids when freezing, due to the different freezing points, so when it thaws, it just isn't right. I imagine the same problem may occur after defrosting the DRC-sicle.

Good point. I've not tested this with wine, so I'm not entirely sure either. I can't imagine it'd do the wine any favours.

It's not entirely related, but I'm reminded that people used to use so-called "freeze distillation" to make stronger versions of wines, beers, and ciders (hard ciders if you're American), such as applejack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

As for the shipping conditions that Rick is inquiring about, the only additional note is that exposure to cold temperatures may result in the formation of tartrate crystals in the bottle, which are innocuous.

Yes, that's a good thing to keep in mind. They can be mistaken for fragments of broken glass, which are not so harmless, so it's best to be sure which one it is.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/13/2019 6:59:07 AM

KPB

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That photo underscores the importance of not having the wine go out in an unheated truck for the final delivery.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/16/2019 6:19:17 AM

lockestep

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I check the route. If the truck is going through the northern tier of states I'd hold off if I saw single digits/teens at night. Otherwise consider the mass being shipped in large trucks - it will take a long, long time to get your bottles down to freezing. I've had no problem with December and late February shipments to the east coast.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/16/2019 6:38:27 AM

ImUrHuckleberry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockestep

I check the route. If the truck is going through the northern tier of states I'd hold off if I saw single digits/teens at night. Otherwise consider the mass being shipped in large trucks - it will take a long, long time to get your bottles down to freezing. I've had no problem with December and late February shipments to the east coast.

How do you check the route ahead of time? I've recently had multiple cases ship from Cali on the same day, and when I watched the tracking I noticed that they ended up taking drastically different routes on their way to New Hampshire. Some went through Arizona before heading north, while others went more northerly from the start and then through the upper midwest.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/17/2019 6:11:43 AM

ramwines

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I'm a little surprised at what sounds like multi-day truck shipments across the country in the middle of winter. I always use 2-day shipping which I believe always means shipment by air vs. a long truck route. Typical Monday shipments arrive on Wednesday with very little truck time involved. Is this simply a shipment cost issue or am I missing something.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/17/2019 6:19:08 AM

ImUrHuckleberry

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I usually do ground from Cali to NH and it is due to cost. But I typically buy from places that will hold my bottles, and then I ship large ground shipments in the spring and fall. Sometimes I'll buy something I want right away, and then I do overnight or 2 day if I'm worried about the weather at that time.

I wish wine.com wasn't so expensive because they offer free shipping with a cheap annual membership, and those shipments must originate on the east coast because they only take 1 to 2 days to reach NH. But they're so expensive that it's mostly not worth it. Most of the retailers I like to buy from are on the west coast so shipping is always a concern.

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RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/18/2019 4:37:19 AM

khmark7

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From: Chicago suburbs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

This makes the big risk the very last step: when the truck spends an entire day in -3F weather wandering all over the whole county before getting to your house as the absolute last stop. That could be 8 hours in really frigid conditions.

Solution: I always go to the tracker web page (I have logins now for UPS and FedEx) and click to hold my wine at a nearby location. Both will hold it for 5 working days, which is plenty of time. Then I run by their customer service counter and collect it at my convenience. And those places are at a sensible temperature - maybe a bit warm, but not so warm that damage could ever occur.

Bingo. My nearest FedEx store is 1.1 miles away, and closest UPS pick-up location is just 4 miles away. I'm in there so often that I'm on a first name basis with most of the staff.

Yeah, my nearest UPS location is almost a 40 minute drive.

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Post #: 21

RE: Shipping To Cold Climates This Time Of Year - 11/18/2019 7:11:58 AM

CranBurgundy

Posts: 8272
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From: Philly / South Joizey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Yeah, my nearest UPS location is almost a 40 minute drive.

That sounds like just a short jog for you!

_____________________________

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Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 22