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Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 6:53:10 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		Ok......Maybe somebody should do a poll. I've had enough of these Reynvaan and Cayuse Washington State Syrahs and my comment is....Where's The Beef? Everyone has different tastes but to me, they are different and just Ok. They are a novelty, new hot dot but honestly, Alban, Araujo Eisele & Carlisle Syrahs blow these away. My Opinion.

It was a nice departure, experiment for me to try this Washington State stuff but it's just not for me. It's too soft, too tin/metallic and honestly, I would not even identify these wines as Syrah. These wines are nothing like French Syrah. Not even close. They are their own thing and unique to this area. Maybe over time my tastes will change but as of right now, not a fan.

Rick
Post #: 1
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:39:22 PM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

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Status: offline 		What would the poll ask?

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:44:26 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

What would the poll ask?


If people prefer California or Washington Syrah. I think people will have a preference of one over the other since they are nothing alike. Not trying to be a hater here just one vs the other.

You could do a Burgundy vs California Pinot Noir poll too. Same thing. Totally different. Comments on why people like one over the other would just be informational. As wine consumers there will just be things people like or don't like. Nothing bad, just preferences.

Like AFWE vs PDC. No wrong answer. Just preferences. They are different.

Rick

< Message edited by WineGuyDelMar -- 10/6/2017 7:46:38 PM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:49:27 PM   
mercurius

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

...Washington State Syrahs and my comment is....Where's The Beef?

Don't you mean, where's the bacon and olives?

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:52:08 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

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From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I like Syrah.

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:53:34 PM   
Scott W

 

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From: Sherman Oaks Ca
Status: offline 		Neither one of them are the Northern Rhone imho, but the more I try these rocks Syrahs the less i'm liking the California versions. So I guess currently i'm liking Washington Syrah a bit more YMMV.

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 7:56:05 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mercurius


quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

...Washington State Syrahs and my comment is....Where's The Beef?

Don't you mean, where's the bacon and olives?


Yes, that was better. Look, I'm not trying to knock Washington Syrahs. That wasn't the point. There are lots of great tastes, subtleties in these wines. Bacon fat, saline, blood, leather and tons of nuances but this just isn't the main thing I'm looking for in a Syrah. Others may like all of this stuff. Araujo Eisele vs Cayuse is different planets. Just differences. Not knocking one vs the other.

Rick

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:04:45 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

I like Syrah.


I LOVE Syrah

Rick

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:06:12 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott W

Neither one of them are the Northern Rhone imho, but the more I try these rocks Syrahs the less i'm liking the California versions. So I guess currently i'm liking Washington Syrah a bit more YMMV.


What are your favorite California Syrahs?

Rick

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Post #: 9
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:21:08 PM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
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Status: offline 		I've had syrah's I like from the Santa Barbara region, and many from different areas of Washington.

Apart from the geography factor, I have been as struck as much by the impact of clonal selection and oak usage - so I find it difficult to generalize on this topic

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:21:19 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

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From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		Grange ... mic drop

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:33:10 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Grange ... mic drop


Grange is fine but Australian so it's neither Washington or California. We haven't brought in Rhone either for the same reason. Great Syrah is made all over and Grange is among the greatest. No doubt. There is a price component to this also so comparing $50-$60 Syrahs to $200-$300 Syrahs isn't a direct/fair comparison.

Rick

< Message edited by WineGuyDelMar -- 10/6/2017 8:45:41 PM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 8:42:46 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

I've had syrah's I like from the Santa Barbara region, and many from different areas of Washington.

Apart from the geography factor, I have been as struck as much by the impact of clonal selection and oak usage - so I find it difficult to generalize on this topic


California Syrah alone is a contrast in style in itself as it's grown everywhere. Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez, Santa Maria/Bien Nacido, Edna Valley, Lompoc, Paso Robles, Santa Lucia Highlands/Monterey Co, Santa Cruz, Napa, Sonoma, Russian River etc all with different terroir, flavor profiles. So generalization is impossible just in California with so many contrasting styles.

Rick

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 9:04:14 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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Status: offline 		Great Syrah is made all over and Grange is among the greatest. No doubt. There is a price component to this also so comparing $50-$60 Syrahs to $200-$300 Syrahs isn't a direct/fair comparison.

Rick


Oh for Grange at $200-$300....

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 9:14:14 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Great Syrah is made all over and Grange is among the greatest. No doubt. There is a price component to this also so comparing $50-$60 Syrahs to $200-$300 Syrahs isn't a direct/fair comparison.

Rick


Oh for Grange at $200-$300....


So it's more now which makes it less relevant. I was just guessing but knew it was more. $400 or $500 or whatever is nothing I am buying or comparing most normal Syrahs too. Good for people who buy this. Good for them. $500 for a bottle of wine is never happening for me.

Rick

< Message edited by WineGuyDelMar -- 10/6/2017 9:21:41 PM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 9:51:54 PM   
recotte

 

Posts: 6867
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Status: offline 		There’s so much variation within both WA and CA that posing the question this way is too broad brush. The question, to me, would be more insightful if it was based around style. Are we talking bacon fat, blood and minerals from the Rocks? Something riper from Red Mountain? Cooler or warmer climate Syrah from CA, which can push things leaner or richer? So different.

My cellar is bursting at the seams with WA Syrah, ‘tis true, but really, if it’s well made, I’m probably going to like it, regardless of where it’s from.

I am not ashamed to admit: I <3 Syrah



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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 9:57:49 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

Posts: 3797
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		So far I was only talking about Reynvaan Rocks. I have not had any Red Mountain Syrah. I love Syrah also. For me it's #2 behind Cabernet Sauvignon. There is room for all styles of Syrah but at this point I prefer Alban, Araujo, Carlisle & other California Syrahs.

Rick

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Post #: 17
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 10:09:07 PM   
peeks13

 

Posts: 470
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From: Wilmette, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

There’s so much variation within both WA and CA that posing the question this way is too broad brush. The question, to me, would be more insightful if it was based around style. Are we talking bacon fat, blood and minerals from the Rocks? Something riper from Red Mountain? Cooler or warmer climate Syrah from CA, which can push things leaner or richer? So different.

My cellar is bursting at the seams with WA Syrah, ‘tis true, but really, if it’s well made, I’m probably going to like it, regardless of where it’s from.

I am not ashamed to admit: I <3 Syrah




I have been quite happy with syrahs at the $15-20 range. On sale (of which they often are) at $10, quite a steal for fruit and black pepper spiciness. Syrah has been undervalued and I will take full advantage.

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Post #: 18
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 10:12:02 PM   
recotte

 

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Status: offline 		I think you’d prefer Red Mountain to the Rocks (Reynvaan, Cayuse, Proper). Distinctly WA and different from the CA Syrahs you’ve noted, but stylistically will be more similar.

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/6/2017 10:17:10 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

I think you’d prefer Red Mountain to the Rocks (Reynvaan, Cayuse, Proper). Distinctly WA and different from the CA Syrahs you’ve noted, but stylistically will be more similar.


I'd like to try for comparison. What producers? I'm just not a fan of that metallic rocks taste so far. I do like the lower alcohol part of it. Some of the other flavor profiles are fine.

Rick

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Post #: 20
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 4:53:29 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23486
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		Washington... Rocks or Red Mountain... or Yakima

Producers in my cellar:

Andrew Will
Buty
Cote Bonneville
Delille
Efeste
Force Majeure
No Girls
Proper
Rasa
Rotie
Sleight of Hand
Trust
and coming along nicely Goat Rocks.


< Message edited by musedir -- 10/7/2017 5:12:58 AM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 5:08:29 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		I really love the Cayuse style, but am not as big a fan of most other WA Syrahs; I find them too hot. I'm waiting for a visit, when Chris can open my eyes to some restrained versions. I have also grown to dislike high ABV Califorina versions. I no longer buy Saxum, Alban, Booker etc. Right now I prefer Copain, Carlisle, Arnot-Roberts etc.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Grange ... mic drop

Chave...[/thread]

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Post #: 22
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 6:29:28 AM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

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From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		I think recotte says it best, very hard to generalize in either region when both have some very diverse styles, both driven by growing area and producer. To my palate, Red Mountain is close to some (hotter) Paso Syrah I've tried. Cooler sites in Yakima Valley, Chelan, Ancient Lakes, Naches Heights can produce a leaner style with still good aromatics and depth. Walla Walla can produce very different Syrah hills vs valley vs The Rocks, that's why The Rocks got it's own AVA. That one is located in Oregon, btw, though most of the wine world thinks of it as Washington.

Some WA producers that make Syrahs from diverse sites and AVA's include Betz, Efeste, Mark Ryan, Gramercy, K Vintners, Avennia, Bunnell, Sleight of Hand, Syncline, Dunham, Kevin White, Maison Bleue (across vintages), Rasa, CT Barrel wines.

I've really enjoyed most of the California Syrah I've tried. Same for Aussie mostly and France. But the main thing I recognize is they are all very diverse too. That's one of the things that make Syrah my favorite grape.

And the best Syrah is grown in Washington.

< Message edited by ChrisinSunnyside -- 10/7/2017 6:57:06 AM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 7:57:46 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		To add to ChrisinSunnyside's thoughts, Mark Ryan and Gorman can be thought of as at one end of the spectrum (big, full throttle), Savage Grace at the other end (less power, more restraint). I used to buy a lot of Bunnell a couple of years ago when he was selling '07, '08, '09 as current releases (his tended to be more mature on release)

I like to compare what different makers do with one vineyard (e.g. Bouschey or Red Willow) -CiS' list has several who would let you do that

Final thought; for a consistent widely available Washington syrah, it's hard to beat the Grand Estates from Columbia Crest at $10 or so

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 8:09:41 AM   
jmcmchi

 

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quote:

WineGuyDelMar

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Great Syrah is made all over and Grange is among the greatest. No doubt. There is a price component to this also so comparing $50-$60 Syrahs to $200-$300 Syrahs isn't a direct/fair comparison.

Rick


Oh for Grange at $200-$300....


So it's more now which makes it less relevant. I was just guessing but knew it was more. $400 or $500 or whatever is nothing I am buying or comparing most normal Syrahs too. Good for people who buy this. Good for them. $500 for a bottle of wine is never happening for me.

Rick


Nor me; in the early 90's I splurged about $40 (at then exchange rates) on a bottle of Grange and drank it some 15 years later when it was going for $600+. I liked it a lot but would have cried if I had paid the then-going rate


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Post #: 25
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 10:52:28 AM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 7250
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From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

There’s so much variation within both WA and CA that posing the question this way is too broad brush. The question, to me, would be more insightful if it was based around style. Are we talking bacon fat, blood and minerals from the Rocks? Something riper from Red Mountain? Cooler or warmer climate Syrah from CA, which can push things leaner or richer? So different.

My cellar is bursting at the seams with WA Syrah, ‘tis true, but really, if it’s well made, I’m probably going to like it, regardless of where it’s from.

I am not ashamed to admit: I <3 Syrah




Oh yeah, well I F'n LOVE Syrah! So there!

Just looked at CT, 50% of my Red cellar is Syrah based. No surprise there.

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Post #: 26
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 11:44:49 AM   
hankj

 

Posts: 4672
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From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		I've had a lot of the cult WA Syrahs at this point. Was silly in love with them for a while, but 30 or 40 samples in I'm getting over it. That sulfurous Rocks funk is unique but now hits me as something of a novelty: "interesting" is fading and not sure there's actually much straight up deliciousness behind it. Now that the funk's not novel I'm annoyed at the flabbiness some bottles of the Christophe wine show, and by how that fat and density with age lends itself to rancio (my new favorite descriptor). Maybe we've all dated this person, or in my case been this person ;)

Will try 8-10 more in a couple of weeks, very curious about where that take the overall impression, hopefully up! Would like to remain in the interesting palate culty connoisseur club. In some ways though lately a glass of Syrah from Saviah, Mackey, Bunch Grass, Dunham makes me at least as happy as Cayuse, Reynvaan, and the like.

California conversely makes yummy Syrah, some too fat, or tart, or over oaked, or boozy. But the good ones are the type of wine where I you see the bottom of the glass quicker than you thought. LM, Neyers, Foley, Shafer - give a bottle to your boss and know it will be enjoyed and not poured down the sink. My only gripe is that a lot of the yummy CA Syrahs have a slight manufactured in laboratory aspect to them, seem like a lot of levels were adjusted post-facto. The fruit though comes across as really too notch, as good as WA or better.

< Message edited by hankj -- 10/7/2017 11:47:49 AM >

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RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 12:44:24 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2774
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline 		+1 on the Washington syrahs. I tend to prefer Washington syrahs. They tend to be a bit less earthy/meaty and a bit fruitier. I prefer that flavor profile.

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Post #: 28
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 1:42:54 PM   
PinotPhile

 

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		I have tasted a few WA Syrahs, and so far have been impressed. Especially Red Mountain. None yet in the cellar, but do have 3 of the DryCab DuBrul from Rasa pending for 2018.

No experience w/Northern Rhone. Above my pay grade.

Looking at my recent TNs, I have particularly enjoyed those listed below. A bit of input from the frugal corner.

Kingston, Casablanca Valley, Lucero, 2011. Drank 2017. This is a candidate for our red of the year.

Navarro, Mendocino, 2011. Drank 2017.

Jip Jip Rocks, Shiraz, Limestone Coast, 2005. We had this in 2016 at 11 years; screwcap. Still so, so impressive.

Castoro Cellars, East Meets West, Paso Robles, 2010. Drank 2016.

Adelaida, Paso Robles, 2005. Drank in 2015.

Big Red Wine Cheers!

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Post #: 29
RE: Syrah.. Washington Vs. California - 10/7/2017 2:37:57 PM   
Franklin 10

 

Posts: 1419
Joined: 12/8/2011
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline 		CT tells me its WA by almost 3:1. If looking at Walla Walla vs. CA, its 1.5:1.

I try never to get really focused on a particular characteristic (varietal, style, region, etc.) purposefully trying to avoid fatigue and big palate swings.

We find Syrah the most flexible for our meal pairings and enjoy quite a variety of styles. Probably the best California Syrah we've had came from the 2010 vintage and Bien Nacido Vineyard (Paul Lato).

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