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[Poll]

What determines a “cult” wine?


Price
  9% (14)
Lengthy waiting list
  20% (30)
Feeding frenzy on release
  16% (24)
Flippability
  10% (15)
Nonstop “buzz” on wine boards
  8% (13)
Points from a heavyweight critic (are there any?)
  4% (7)
Rock star winemaker
  4% (7)
Scarcity
  17% (26)
Other?
  6% (9)


Total Votes : 145
(last vote on : 9/6/2018 7:32:21 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 4:36:52 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		Great question by WGDM in another thread.
How does a wine achieve cult status?

Multiple selections enabled

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Post #: 1
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 4:48:02 PM   
Chip Merlot

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 10/13/2013
From: NJ
Status: offline 		{It's the best wine you'll ever taste} + {You can't have any} = cult

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 2
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 4:55:08 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		I went with lengthy waiting list, flippability, scarcity, and feeding frenzy on release (only applies to those who do not hold allocations).

I think waiting list and flippability are really the two tops reasons it is a cult.

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Paul

I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

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Post #: 3
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 5:07:24 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		All of the above. None of the above. The real question is:

Why does one brand elevate to Cult status while another with the same qualifications doesn't achieve it?

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Purple Drankin' Cretin.

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(in reply to mtpisgah)
Post #: 4
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 5:12:27 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

All of the above. None of the above. The real question is:

Why does one brand elevate to Cult status while another with the same qualifications doesn't achieve it?



I think it helps if you always spell the winery in CAPITAL LETTERS.

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Paul

I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 5
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 5:16:26 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mtpisgah

I think it helps if you always spell the winery in CAPITAL LETTERS.


Where's the Like button when you need it?

Going in the opposite direction, another good sign that a wine has achieved Cult status is if you get booted from the list and demonstratively make the first letter of the name lower case instead of a capital letter just for spite (sour grapes if you'll pardon the pun).

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to mtpisgah)
Post #: 6
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 5:18:17 PM   
skifree

 

Posts: 3407
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline 		Scarcity, high price, and perception that the wine is special (critics notes and scores, notes and scores from people you trust).

It is weird how price comes into this equation, no $40 wine is considered a cult wine even if it is limited production and is considered special.

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Post #: 7
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 6:02:05 PM   
dontime

 

Posts: 9515
Joined: 8/11/2009
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		For me it has something to do with how well the price holds up in the secondary market.

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non regna il silenzio"

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Post #: 8
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 6:39:03 PM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

Posts: 7845
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		Does the quality of the wine even matter? Apparently not since it failed to be a poll choice.

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Post #: 9
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 6:42:40 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		There is only one cult wine, MacDonald.

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(in reply to ChrisinCowiche)
Post #: 10
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 6:52:21 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3594
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I’d add Scarecrow, Screagle, Rayas, DRC, Juge, and a No. Rhône producer whose name escapes me.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 11
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 6:57:59 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

There is only one cult wine, MACDONALD.



FIFY

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Paul

I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 12
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 7:18:16 PM   
Chip Merlot

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 10/13/2013
From: NJ
Status: offline 		MTPISGAH, you forgot to drop the mic.

(in reply to mtpisgah)
Post #: 13
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/30/2018 7:25:47 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Okay, all this "sourcing" and "mic drop"ping needs to end. It's getting too expensive, and the feedback is hurting my ears.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

Does the quality of the wine even matter? Apparently not since it failed to be a poll choice.


No, silly man, it doesn't really matter. Who buys cult wine to actually drink it?



_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to ChrisinCowiche)
Post #: 14
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 2:29:49 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

Does the quality of the wine even matter? Apparently not since it failed to be a poll choice.


No, silly man, it doesn't really matter. Who buys cult wine to actually drink it?

True; otherwise price (and demand) would drop in a "poor" year ( or maybe an extra factor is "every year is a great year" - ooops, that is Bordeaux)


(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 15
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 3:42:25 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

I’d add Scarecrow, Screagle, Rayas, DRC, Juge, and a No. Rhône producer whose name escapes me.

Gonon?
Allemand?
Clape?

SQN, Cayuse (at least Frog), Overnoy, maybe Pingus or Unico, Masseto, Giacosa singles, Saxum and Saxum maybe (although much of the buzz is fading), LOTS of Burgs which I can no longer afford.

Harlan, one of the original cults is pretty easy to find/easy list to crack

Star faded--Kosta Browne, Sea Smoke, Hourglass, Ovid, Futo

Some people would still consider Lewelling to be a cult wine (in spite of reasonable price) because it is such a difficult list to crack.

< Message edited by S1 -- 8/31/2018 3:48:24 AM >

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Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 16
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 4:14:27 AM   
Franklin 10

 

Posts: 1419
Joined: 12/8/2011
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline 		Feeding Frenzy and Flippability and not just for the fun alliteration.

The word “cult” has such negative connotations, I’ve never felt comfortable thinking of a desireable wine in that way.

While I’m sure the quality is assumed, its telling that it isn’t in the list of questions (a choice I agree with). I’ve gotten a lot of great ideas from this board and gotten on Cayuse list and purchased MACDONALD without tasting them but the same is true for most wines I get to age. Recommendations from a trusted palate are compelling, not frantic gushes or expectations of profit.

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(in reply to S1)
Post #: 17
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 5:26:31 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11412
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		My perception/experience of Cult wines in the USA = overblown, overripe, overhyped, overscored.



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Post #: 18
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 6:53:51 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

My perception/experience of Cult wines in the USA = overblown, overripe, overhyped, overscored.




add "overpriced"

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 19
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 7:02:42 AM   
wineismylife

 

Posts: 6490
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Arlington, TX
Status: offline 		What determines a cult wine? A bunch of wine goobers calling it a cult wine.

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Post #: 20
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 7:13:02 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 8242
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

My perception/experience of Cult wines in the USA = overblown, overripe, overhyped, overscored.




Would have never guessed that Two Buck Chuck could make the poll

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 21
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 7:20:52 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3594
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife
What determines a cult wine? A bunch of wine goobers calling it a cult wine.

Winner winner chicken dinner

(in reply to wineismylife)
Post #: 22
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 7:29:19 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		MacDonald isn't overpriced. Just impossible to get an allocation. In fact, it being somewhat less expensive is part of the reason that we all thing that CranBurg is such a bastard for getting one. The SOB not only gets an allocation, but doesn't spend a fortune on it. Is this fair? Is this the way the world should work? Honestly: don't I deserve an allocation? I think so...

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Post #: 23
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 7:41:59 AM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		There are several better reasons to curse me other than merely getting on the MacDonald mailing list.

Besides, I share. I brought a 2014 to a Ct CT offline, and we are swapping a bottle one day when our paths cross.

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Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 24
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 8:07:56 AM   
PinotPhile

 

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		Glad we could choose multiple options. Mine were price, lengthy wait list, scarcity, feeding frenzy. Looks like I'm within the general consensus.

And, cult wines are something I generally avoid. So many well-priced options out there. There's always an exception, but quite rare from the frugal corner.

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 25
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 8:58:05 AM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

And, cult wines are something I generally avoid. So many well-priced options out there.


Usually, I'm in agreement with you. There are quite a few reasonably priced wines that my wife and I thoroughly enjoy which are under $50 a bottle. It's great to see the insanity has left Rieling and Vouvray untouched so far. You can drink world class whites from JJ Prum, Huet, JC Pichot, Max Ferd Richter, and others in the $20 to $40 range. The only exceptions for us are a couple of Burgundy producers, and for me there's a few $75 to $175 Cali Cabs (since my wife isn't a fan of tannic reds), of which I've bought less and less of each year.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to PinotPhile)
Post #: 26
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 11:50:36 AM   
Wine Grove

 

Posts: 709
Joined: 11/9/2017
From: San Clemente, CA
Status: offline 		Based on the Options, my opinion is SCARCITY (or low production) is the most important factor. No wine could be "cult' with a lot on the market. then a combo of Quality, Wait time, Price,and perception.

I agree with SKifree

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 27
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 1:27:51 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Seriously, to me cult needs to connote an insider-community with arcane handshakes and other special knowledge/access. The cultists can feel special as a result. Secrecy is also a property of many cults -- those who know, smile but don't comment in public.

So beyond that, sure, the wine may be scarce (but some aren't), may or may not cost a fortune. Yet to me there are many scarce expensive wines, like DRC La Tache or Leroy Richbourg, but this doesn't cause them to be cult wines.

There is also some element of fanaticism involved. I for example am a Rayas fanatic. The wine is widely known, scarce and expensive, but even so, not allocated in a controlled way. Too expensive for my normal wine budget. Yet I do sometimes seek it out and buy it to feed my obsessive habit. JL Chave too (both Blanc and Rouge).

< Message edited by KPB -- 8/31/2018 1:30:59 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 1:27:59 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

Based on the Options, my opinion is SCARCITY (or low production) is the most important factor. No wine could be "cult' with a lot on the market.


I offer Shafer Hillside Select as a counter argument. Schrader (or schrader, as those who have been booted from the list call it) isn't exactly scarce either. The owner used to put some of his bottles on the secondary market himself, just to take advantage of the frenzy (or so the story goes).

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to Wine Grove)
Post #: 29
RE: What determines a “cult” wine? - 8/31/2018 3:58:37 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

Cults are unicorns.

One of the LWSs had HSS for $310 right now.

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Paul

I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 30
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