Keeping track of NV champagnes

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Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/18/2024 2:09:58 PM

Jenise

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So I just added some Pierre Peters BdB Cuvee Reserves to my cellar. NV's are annoying because there are all these scores there, including critic ratings, but comparing what I find in the bottle to what anyone else thinks of it is a fruitless task (no pun intended) because we're maybe not really talking about the exact same wine. At the higher end, it matters.

In order to salvage something meaningful from ratings and especially tasting notes by others, would it make any sense to add disgorgement dates as a proper data field just like delineations for other wines by vintage and vineyard?

< Message edited by Jenise -- 2/18/2024 4:45:08 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/18/2024 2:32:57 PM

grafstrb

Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenise

So I just added some Pierre Peters BdB's to my cellar. NV's are annoying because there are all these scores there, including critic ratings, but comparing what I find in the bottle to what anyone else thinks of it is a fruitless task (no pun intended) because we're really talking about the exact same wine. At the higher end, it matters.

In order to salvage something meaningful from the ratings, would it make any sense to add disgorgement dates as a proper data field just like delineations for other wines by vintage and vineyard?

There is a fairly detailed, and lengthy, thread on Wine Berserkers right now about this exact situation. The basic summary is this: for now, nothing is going to change, but Eric/CT is aware of this problem, and is trying to come up with a solution. For the time being, the best we can all do is be as detailed as possible in our tasting notes, including as much technical information as possible, including disgorgement dates and any available information re: base year / vintage blends.

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(in reply to Jenise)

Post #: 2

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/18/2024 3:08:21 PM

DoubleD1969

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This is why I only buy Krug lol

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Post #: 3

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/19/2024 9:07:27 AM

xyc

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One of the points I tried to post about CT, many wines misidentified, esp NV Champagne. Site owner not interested in site Faultline's, he owns it, we only visit.

(in reply to Jenise)

Post #: 4

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/19/2024 10:08:36 AM

Jenise

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From: The Pacific Northest Westest
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Excuse me, but I have to object to your post. The owner of this site is VERY interested in correcting and improving the data base, that's why he has a whole forum dedicated to reports on same from users! I saw one of your complaints about what you called a misidentified wine and the fault was yours: you weren't searching the right name/spelling. And you didn't even put that complaint in the right forum!

(in reply to xyc)

Post #: 5

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/19/2024 7:48:27 PM

Paul852

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As Jenise says, this is rubbish - I report many misplaced photos, wine dupes and other issues, mainly via the "Report" links on the CT website, but also via the Wine Data Corrections forum here for more complex issues.

Every single time it is acted on rather rapidly, sometimes with an explanatory email from Andrew (especially if I've got something wrong or there are complexities I wasn't aware of).

Yes, Eric can be a bit touchy in response to criticisms of the site (even those intended constructively), but I have absolutely no problem with the way the underlying database is maintained.

(in reply to xyc)

Post #: 6

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/19/2024 9:41:36 PM

Eric

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From: Seattle, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xyc

One of the points I tried to post about CT, many wines misidentified, esp NV Champagne. Site owner not interested in site Faultline's, he owns it, we only visit.

Incorrect. And just as brusque as the one support ticket you raised. Report problems on individual wines. There is a link on every page.

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(in reply to xyc)

Post #: 7

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/20/2024 10:01:15 PM

grafstrb

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From: LAla land
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xyc

One of the points I tried to post about CT, many wines misidentified, esp NV Champagne. Site owner not interested in site Faultline's, he owns it, we only visit.

You should ask for a refund!!

_____________________________

Terroir is not a flavor.

(in reply to xyc)

Post #: 8

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/21/2024 6:08:40 PM

WineGuyCO

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WoW…Somebody might be banned before Cran.

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Post #: 9

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/21/2024 10:04:32 PM

recotte

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Getting back to the original point, I totally agree that it's a problem, and I can also see how it's a sticky wicket to solve.

On Valentine's Day, I opened a NV Laurent-Perrier Champagne Cuvée Rosé Brut. Yes, a rosé on Valentine's Day, very cliché, but also delicious and fantastic with the massive Alaskan king crab legs we had with it. But I digress. In my tasting note, I wanted to include the disgorgement date and base vintage. Scoured the bottle, and nada. I did a little googling, and Laurent-Perrier doesn't publish this information for their NV wines. There is a code on the cork that can be used to deduce the calendar quarter and year of disgorgement, but that's as close as you're going to get. Some houses are transparent, some, not so much.

From a data capture perspective, this lack of consistency is highly problematic when there's such a disparity in what's available. Then getting users to actually input information with any sort of coherency? Ugh, the IT professional in me just got an ulcer.

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(in reply to WineGuyCO)

Post #: 10

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/24/2024 8:41:17 AM

Hollowine

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From: Hood River, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

Getting back to the original point, I totally agree that it's a problem, and I can also see how it's a sticky wicket to solve.

On Valentine's Day, I opened a NV Laurent-Perrier Champagne Cuvée Rosé Brut. Yes, a rosé on Valentine's Day, very cliché, but also delicious and fantastic with the massive Alaskan king crab legs we had with it. But I digress. In my tasting note, I wanted to include the disgorgement date and base vintage. Scoured the bottle, and nada. I did a little googling, and Laurent-Perrier doesn't publish this information for their NV wines. There is a code on the cork that can be used to deduce the calendar quarter and year of disgorgement, but that's as close as you're going to get. Some houses are transparent, some, not so much.

From a data capture perspective, this lack of consistency is highly problematic when there's such a disparity in what's available. Then getting users to actually input information with any sort of coherency? Ugh, the IT professional in me just got an ulcer.

Wait... you don't like Champagne...

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 11

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/24/2024 9:13:03 AM

DoubleD1969

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Isn't the point with NV Champagne is that it's a consistent style and not built to age? Otherwise, the juice would be part of the vintage bottling. I'm not sure if it is worth the money and effort to provide any more details (e.g., % varietals, % vintage, etc.) with a few exceptions like Krug.

(in reply to Hollowine)

Post #: 12

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/24/2024 9:21:34 AM

Paul852

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From: Hong Kong
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Isn't the point with NV Champagne is that it's a consistent style and not built to age? Otherwise, the juice would be part of the vintage bottling. I'm not sure if it is worth the money and effort to provide any more details (e.g., % varietals, % vintage, etc.) with a few exceptions like Krug.

Not really - house style evolves over time. To pick an example that I happened to drink this evening... the Thienot Brut NV has a TN from 2022 where the dosage was 9g/l, and my bottle today was 4g/l.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

Post #: 13

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/24/2024 10:50:01 AM

ericindc

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Honestly, unless there is some disgorgement date or some other identifier, not much you can do. I generally just mark on the bottle when I bought it. It gives a general idea how old it is.... but then I age even NV champagnes.

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Post #: 14

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/24/2024 10:53:55 AM

sastewart

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Joined: 8/16/2012
From: Greater Nashville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul852

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Isn't the point with NV Champagne is that it's a consistent style and not built to age? Otherwise, the juice would be part of the vintage bottling. I'm not sure if it is worth the money and effort to provide any more details (e.g., % varietals, % vintage, etc.) with a few exceptions like Krug.

Not really - house style evolves over time. To pick an example that I happened to drink this evening... the Thienot Brut NV has a TN from 2022 where the dosage was 9g/l, and my bottle today was 4g/l.

Also, to my taste many benefit from at least a couple of years of age.

When I purchase Champagne I always add disgorgement date to the purchase note so that if I have made several purchases over time I know what order to drink them in.

At this point I think the best we can do is to add the disgorgement date (when available) to the tasting note.

(in reply to Paul852)

Post #: 15

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/25/2024 3:24:17 AM

Echinosum

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Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenise

So I just added some Pierre Peters BdB Cuvee Reserves to my cellar. NV's are annoying because there are all these scores there, including critic ratings, but comparing what I find in the bottle to what anyone else thinks of it is a fruitless task (no pun intended) because we're maybe not really talking about the exact same wine. At the higher end, it matters.

In order to salvage something meaningful from ratings and especially tasting notes by others, would it make any sense to add disgorgement dates as a proper data field just like delineations for other wines by vintage and vineyard?

Some NV wines on CT do have individual bottlings identified. And that is really down to the users rather than CT staff to create that. These individual wines are created by users who want to use them. And sometimes other users follow them, and in other cases they become zombie wines that others don't use.

So really, this is up to you. If you can be bothered creating these individual bottlings, as individual wines on CT, then they are there for you and others to use. And you will have to hope that others use them properly. But plain NV versions will remain for those who can't be bothered.

I had a discussion with Eric once, when I complained to him about the nonsensical drinking windows for NV wines. He patiently explained to me that they debated this issue at length some long time ago, and admitted it wasn't an ideal solution, but they had decided it was the best compromise.

But these drinking windows make a lot more sense when an NV wine is an individually identified NV wine, rather than a repeated reissue generic NV wine. Once I saw that, I realised that Eric was right. Because it is too much to ask the users always to correctly distinguish between different kinds of NV wine.

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Post #: 16

RE: Keeping track of NV champagnes - 2/29/2024 10:59:08 AM

Rossodio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericindc

Honestly, unless there is some disgorgement date or some other identifier, not much you can do. I generally just mark on the bottle when I bought it. It gives a general idea how old it is.... but then I age even NV champagnes.

Aging NV champagnes... this is the way to go. Does it always lead to a better experience? No. Do many of them benefit from true extended aging? No. But sometimes it is remarkable how much a bottle of NV can improve with a few years.

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