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Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 3:51:24 AM   
Sean McGrath

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 11/3/2020
From: US in NL
Status: offline 		I'm looking for advice on European PN regions (or wines) that are not Burgundy.

I have a self-imposed constraint of buying European wines for drinking here in the Netherlands, and would like to widen my horizons re. Pinot Noir. Burgundy is too expensive to be my only source.

I get good PN from Süd Tirol and am wondering whether there are other regions that you all would recommend. Let's say good quality PN up to about €50.

cheers,
Sean

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 5:10:28 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14828
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		Sancerre Rouge, esp in a warmish vintage
Irancy
Lots of German (but becoming expensive)


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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 5:43:07 AM   
Eduardo787

 

Posts: 1569
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
Status: offline 		A few months ago I asked a question about German & Austrian PN. I got a lot of help and someone here pointed me to someone that specializes in German pinot. Contacted him and I bought 12 bottles in the $25-$60 range. This Christmas I opened 2 bottles and they were very good. Thorle is the pinot I opened and it might be a good try for you to drink. I was looking at pricing in Europe and they are much cheaper over there so you might end up with $15-$35 range. I actually loved those 2 bottles finding them sweeter than any Burgundy definitely less sweet than a Sonoma pn. Maybe it´s more like a Oregon thing, but heck I only tasted 2 bottles and I might be wrong asuming all pinot from Germany is this way

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 7:39:29 AM   
Sean McGrath

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 11/3/2020
From: US in NL
Status: offline 		Thanks, both. Now that you mention it, I think I remember your post Eduardo -- I'll look it up.

Actually, I don't see your PN post, Eduardo. Do you remember the title?

< Message edited by Sean McGrath -- 12/27/2022 8:19:44 AM >

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 7:57:12 AM   
pclin

 

Posts: 1912
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: Exile in my own country
Status: offline 		I only bought Furst and Keller Pinot Noirs.

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 8:20:36 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4664
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Belgium and Switzerland are both producing PN within Europe these days. I’ve had good Swiss wines, but have not yet encountered a Belgian one worth looking for. It could happen, though: the limestone ridge that runs under champagne extends into Belgium and with the warming climate, conditions are starting to become favorable for growing grapes in some areas. As for Switzerland, the Valais has produced PN for decades and there are quite a few good producers. The only issue will be price: they may cost just as much as the ones from Burgundy!

I might look for PN from north of Lyon, in the Beaujolais region. There isn’t any wall preventing wineries from working with PN up there, and the climate has become way more favorable. Has to be a thing…

< Message edited by KPB -- 12/27/2022 8:21:04 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 8:22:04 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4664
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		PS: even better suggestion: just drive down and taste inexpensive wines from solid producers. Any French winery has some less expensive wines for their neighbors to buy. And those can be quute good!

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Post #: 7
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 8:33:46 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4664
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Also, watch for wines from Domaine Guffens-Heynen and their négociant business, Maison Verget. Many will be white wines, but this is a Belgian producer in burgundy who sells mostly in Belgium. Drive down to Knokke-Heist and you easily will find them. Tremendous quality for the price!

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Post #: 8
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 8:47:47 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3225
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		Plenty of German spätburgunder fromPfalz and the Ahr (sometimes labelled pinot noir as well), anything from 10 euro’s to 100+
Robert Weil, Müller-Cattoir, Dr Birkweiler, Christmann,Waßmer, Giegerich, Meyer-Näkel.

Savoie has some cheapish pn from 10 euro’s or so

Austria has several, I am waiting to open a bottle from Fritsch.

Finally there are several richer style from the Languedoc available in supermarkets



< Message edited by jmcmchi -- 12/27/2022 8:49:13 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 9:44:16 AM   
Ibetian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pclin

I only bought Furst and Keller Pinot Noirs.


I’ve never had Furst and Keller, but I love Furst and Ten 😉

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Post #: 10
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 2:43:07 PM   
cellardweller

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline 		You should definitely consider Alsace. They have been producing PNs in Alsace since the Middle Ages and PN is the only recognized red grape in the Alsace AOC and has recently been added to several Grands Crus designations. They are very well priced for the quality and although historically they have tended towards a lighter style, you can now found more deeply concentrated PNs. Furhermore,many are certified organic or biodynamic.

(in reply to Ibetian)
Post #: 11
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/27/2022 10:02:01 PM   
Eduardo787

 

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From: Monterrey Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

Thanks, both. Now that you mention it, I think I remember your post Eduardo -- I'll look it up.

Actually, I don't see your PN post, Eduardo. Do you remember the title?


Help with German pinots. Right now it´s on page #7

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I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

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Post #: 12
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/28/2022 1:40:51 AM   
Sean McGrath

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 11/3/2020
From: US in NL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

Thanks, both. Now that you mention it, I think I remember your post Eduardo -- I'll look it up.

Actually, I don't see your PN post, Eduardo. Do you remember the title?


Help with German pinots. Right now it´s on page #7


Thanks.

_____________________________


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Post #: 13
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/28/2022 8:17:11 AM   
Sean McGrath

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 11/3/2020
From: US in NL
Status: offline 		Thanks all, this has been very helpful. I'll update after I've tried a few.

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Post #: 14
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/28/2022 3:59:08 PM   
Wine Grove

 

Posts: 714
Joined: 11/9/2017
From: San Clemente, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

I'm looking for advice on European PN regions (or wines) that are not Burgundy.

I have a self-imposed constraint of buying European wines for drinking here in the Netherlands, and would like to widen my horizons re. Pinot Noir. Burgundy is too expensive to be my only source.

I get good PN from Süd Tirol and am wondering whether there are other regions that you all would recommend. Let's say good quality PN up to about €50.

cheers,
Sean


How accessible are Oregon or Central coast CA wines for you? While two different styles, There are very good pinots at reasonable price points in those 2 regions.

(in reply to Sean McGrath)
Post #: 15
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/28/2022 7:43:59 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 7251
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

A few months ago I asked a question about German & Austrian PN. I got a lot of help and someone here pointed me to someone that specializes in German pinot. Contacted him and I bought 12 bottles in the $25-$60 range. This Christmas I opened 2 bottles and they were very good. Thorle is the pinot I opened and it might be a good try for you to drink. I was looking at pricing in Europe and they are much cheaper over there so you might end up with $15-$35 range. I actually loved those 2 bottles finding them sweeter than any Burgundy definitely less sweet than a Sonoma pn. Maybe it´s more like a Oregon thing, but heck I only tasted 2 bottles and I might be wrong asuming all pinot from Germany is this way


I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the Spatburgunder Eduardo

(in reply to Eduardo787)
Post #: 16
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/30/2022 7:23:23 PM   
slaughterer

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 7/4/2010
From: Frankfurt am Main
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Plenty of German spätburgunder ....
Robert Weil, ...




Just to avoid somebody expending effort on trying to buy a PN from Robert Weil: Weil does not make any PN, only Riesling. The other recommendations are good though.

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Post #: 17
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/30/2022 8:21:24 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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Joined: 8/6/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaughterer


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

Plenty of German spätburgunder ....
Robert Weil, ...




Just to avoid somebody expending effort on trying to buy a PN from Robert Weil: Weil does not make any PN, only Riesling. The other recommendations are good though.


Strange since I drank a Robert Weil Spätburgunder Trocken Junior Unique 2017 in Berlin last year

(in reply to slaughterer)
Post #: 18
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 12/31/2022 9:58:48 PM   
Paul852

 

Posts: 2656
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Ah - well Robert Weil Junior (aka Weinhaus Robert Weil) appears to be the negociant off-shoot of Weingut Robert Weil. So you're both sort of correct.

See the website for details.

< Message edited by Paul852 -- 12/31/2022 10:00:36 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/1/2023 8:35:00 AM   
jmcmchi

 

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Joined: 8/6/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul852

Ah - well Robert Weil Junior (aka Weinhaus Robert Weil) appears to be the negociant off-shoot of Weingut Robert Weil. So you're both sort of correct.

See the website for details.


Nice research

Thanks

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Post #: 20
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/3/2023 6:27:51 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1
Sancerre Rouge, esp in a warmish vintage
Irancy

"Warmish" is the right word, meaning maybe avoid the very hot vintages, as well as the cool ones, should we see their like again - even 2017 was "warmish".

There's a red Sancerre I occasionally buy and enjoy, when it isn't from a mean vintage, but which was clumsy and heavy in a recent very hot vintage. Previously it had succeeded in being ethereal and lightfooted, which I think is what red Sancerre ought to be about, even though it is located only a short distance due west of the Cote d'Or.

I have had some lovely Irancy in the past, but not seen it recently. Again, it was a beautiful, lightfooted wine in a warmish vintage.

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 21
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/3/2023 9:03:29 AM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
Status: offline 		Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?

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Post #: 22
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/8/2023 4:52:23 AM   
Sean McGrath

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 11/3/2020
From: US in NL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?


Yes!

Burgundy is such a hodgepodge of small production that I've never really managed to get my head around it. So I pretty much rely on WS which severely limits my choice.

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/8/2023 8:48:42 AM   
NorthWillis

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/11/2022
Status: offline 		This may already have been mentioned, but you may want to look at Alsace. I know that Boxler produces a PN that garners good reviews.

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/8/2023 9:52:04 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14828
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From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?


Yes!

Burgundy is such a hodgepodge of small production that I've never really managed to get my head around it. So I pretty much rely on WS which severely limits my choice.

Top of my head…
Bouchard Beaune 1er Cru Beaune du Château
Numerous wines from Chandon de Briailles
Camus-Bruchon
Digioia-Royer
Lots of Jadot
Pavelot
Guillemot
Lots of regional Bourgogne from good producers (Barthod, Carillon, Lamarche, Mongeard-Mugneret…)

Look to Fixin and Marsannay in the north, and Givry, Santenay, and Monthelie in the south.

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

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Post #: 25
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/11/2023 1:15:36 AM   
penguinoid

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?


Yes!

Burgundy is such a hodgepodge of small production that I've never really managed to get my head around it. So I pretty much rely on WS which severely limits my choice.

Top of my head…
Bouchard Beaune 1er Cru Beaune du Château
Numerous wines from Chandon de Briailles
Camus-Bruchon
Digioia-Royer
Lots of Jadot
Pavelot
Guillemot
Lots of regional Bourgogne from good producers (Barthod, Carillon, Lamarche, Mongeard-Mugneret…)

Look to Fixin and Marsannay in the north, and Givry, Santenay, and Monthelie in the south.


I'd add Mercurey and Rully in the south to that list too. There's plenty of affordable but good 1er cru wines from both villages. Faiveley's Mercurey 1er Cru Clos des Myglands is one example, as would be any of Jaeger-Defaix's Rully 1er crus.

I visited Maison Faiveley last year and was actually impressed at how good their Bourgogne level wines were at about €17 a bottle from the winery. (I've seen them priced at as much as €30 a bottle, which is less impressive, though). If you can find them at a decent price, they'd be good everyday wines.

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/11/2023 9:16:56 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?


Yes!

Burgundy is such a hodgepodge of small production that I've never really managed to get my head around it. So I pretty much rely on WS which severely limits my choice.

Francois Lumpp --- out of Givry. They are on the bigger side of things, but I think they have everything well-balanced.

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Terroir is not a flavor.

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Post #: 27
RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/13/2023 9:43:25 AM   
penguinoid

 

Posts: 1066
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quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean McGrath

quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Have you any interest in Burgundy recommendations that are €50 or less?


Yes!

Burgundy is such a hodgepodge of small production that I've never really managed to get my head around it. So I pretty much rely on WS which severely limits my choice.

Francois Lumpp --- out of Givry. They are on the bigger side of things, but I think they have everything well-balanced.


I've not had much luck with the Givrys I've tried, so I will have to look them up. One advantage of them being a larger producer is their wines might be easier to actually find.

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RE: Best PNs in Europe (well, except for...) - 1/16/2023 2:25:03 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
Status: offline 		Good luck with the hunt; do note: there are a couple different Lumpp's out of Givry. I speak only of Francois.

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Terroir is not a flavor.

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Post #: 29
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