Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with Pinot Noir grapes?

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Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with Pin... - 1/31/2016 6:32:27 PM

Rossodio

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My older brother asked me this question - an interesting one. I don't even know if it would work well as a wine, but am interested to know whether such a wine exists out there made from Pinot Noir grapes, from any country.

Anyone out there heard of such a thing?

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 6:40:36 PM

mclancy10006

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Exist=yes
Common=no
Should you drink it=unknown.
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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 6:52:16 PM

GalvezGuy

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If they followed the Kosta Browne method of making Pinot.......

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 9:35:53 PM

vinopkm

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http://www.vanduzer.com/scripts/winepg.cfm?wn=8

Google searches found a couple pinot ports.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 10:18:21 PM

bretrooks

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Hunt Cellars in Paso Robles makes port/fortified wine out of all sorts of grapes, and at least in 2009, they did in fact make a pinot noir port (18.4% on the label).

I don't see evidence of it online, but I've actually had this - someone in my tasting group is a member of their port club and brought this to a blind tasting last year. I recall it working well enough as a dessert wine (alongside fruit tarts, I think) and having an unusual enough profile that there was no consensus guess on what grape might have been used...somehow no one called fortified pinot

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 10:32:33 PM

PinotPhile

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Visited a winery in Palisade, CO. Debeque Canyon. Vintner mentioned a Pinot Noir Port in progress, but not yet available for sale.

Yes, Pinot Noir can be found in CO.

Cheers!

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 1/31/2016 11:51:48 PM

gilrbo

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Yes, it exists (as others have written already).
More examples are from Switzerland:
http://www.donatsch.info/#!pinot-noir-vintage/c17ek
http://www.obrecht.ch/weine.html (scroll down to Pinot Spirito)

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/1/2016 8:20:07 AM

KPB

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Here in NYS there are a lot of people experimenting with other ways of making port-like wines, and I've had them in Oregon too, like the port from Sinnean.

Basically, if you have jammy, sweet, late harvest anything, and you add grappa (spirits) you can end up with a red or white or even pink port. Let the wine oxidize enough and it will seem like a tawny port. But not all ports are created equal.

I would say that this approach is yielding drinkable fortified wines from all over: California, Oregon, NYS, etc. But what I like about real port from Portugal is that they have centuries of experience and are using really great pairings of the choice of wine with the choice of spirits, etc. So whether you prefer a tawny or late bottled style or a vintage port style (I myself am totally into vintage port), frankly nobody comes close to what these wines out of Portugal achieve.

Ironically, people are often unaware of how cheap they can be, too. The issue is that WA or something writes up some totally new release and everyone goes insane and bids up the price of the 2011 VPs. So they do cost a lot: $150 a bottle for a good wine from Taylor or Fonseca or Dow or Graham, for example. But first of all, Portugal releases the "non vintage year" wines under the single Quinta labels and you might find a Quinta da Vesuvio for a fraction of that. It can be every bit as good.

Second, VP matures at a glacial pace and right now, the 1970's and 1980's are just peaking. But weirdly, by the time the wines are at their best, nobody seems to care about them and the prices are often really low, even on the shelves of your local retailer, and certainly at auction. Even more weirdly, because VP is incredibly robust stuff and can tolerate moderate warmth in the cellar and other storage issues, even bottles reported as showing small signs of leaks are often just fine (the corks go bad after 25 years so tiny amounts of leakage are normal for a wine like the 1985 Graham VP, which is totally in its zone right now, or the 1983 Fonseca). You can bid $45 on a bottle like that and might win, because leakers terrify people who bid in auctions, even the tiniest degree of stickiness around the capsule.

You won't find a great $45 port made in the US right now, or at least I never have. And if you did, it would be made from Zinfandel or something like that, probably not a jammy late-harvest pinot noir...

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/2/2016 11:44:54 AM

wineismylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GalvezGuy

If they followed the Kosta Browne method of making Pinot.......

OUCH!

You just had to go there.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/2/2016 6:26:17 PM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GalvezGuy

If they followed the Kosta Browne method of making Pinot.......

Low blow, but funny.

I used to really like Kosta Browne, but switched to lighter, more fragrant pinots. The KB was too big.

Recently, we popped open a 2009 Kosta Brown RRV....it was excellent.

YMMV.....as may your tastes.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/3/2016 6:41:41 AM

River Rat

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Easy way to dispose of declassified juice or something the winemaker just can't get to go dry. Fortify it and triple the price.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/3/2016 10:42:52 AM

KPB

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No, the Sineann port is quite good. Not sure it is pure pinot noir, and actually strongly doubt that it is. On the other hand, Sineann is definitely mostly a pinot noir producer (they also bottle a wonderful Zin, a good Cab Franc and some other wines too, but in volume, PN wins by a lot). They must end up with some late-harvested grapes that got very ripe.

I don't think Pete would ever bottle something he didn't think was his very best. But I suspect that his port is a blend with perhaps a lot of Zinfandel in it, and this makes sense: Zin is a wine much more like the kind of wine they start with in Portugal for the real vintage port... PN would never be rich and ripe enough, even though it can get pretty powerful and jammy.

I just find that for my palate, the Portuguese version typically holds more interest....

< Message edited by KPB -- 2/3/2016 10:45:37 AM >

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/3/2016 10:52:00 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

No, the Sineann port is quite good. Not sure it is pure pinot noir, and actually strongly doubt that it is. On the other hand, Sineann is definitely mostly a pinot noir producer (they also bottle a wonderful Zin, a good Cab Franc and some other wines too, but in volume, PN wins by a lot). They must end up with some late-harvested grapes that got very ripe.

I don't think Pete would ever bottle something he didn't think was his very best. But I suspect that his port is a blend with perhaps a lot of Zinfandel in it, and this makes sense: Zin is a wine much more like the kind of wine they start with in Portugal for the real vintage port... PN would never be rich and ripe enough, even though it can get pretty powerful and jammy.

I just find that for my palate, the Portuguese version typically holds more interest....

I agree regarding Peter Rosback and Sineann. I've never sampled a port he made, I don't think, but the PN-based Ice wine he has made a few times, I found quite interesting and good to boot.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/3/2016 1:04:57 PM

GalvezGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

quote:

ORIGINAL: GalvezGuy

If they followed the Kosta Browne method of making Pinot.......

Low blow, but funny.

I used to really like Kosta Browne, but switched to lighter, more fragrant pinots. The KB was too big.

Recently, we popped open a 2009 Kosta Brown RRV....it was excellent.

YMMV.....as may your tastes.

For me Kosta Browne is more about a palate shift than anything else. I used to drink and buy a lot of KB, now I just find them too big for anything other than a cocktail party. I do think you could make a decent port from their raw juice.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/3/2016 4:01:31 PM

Old Doug

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I realize it's a generalization, but pinot noir seems pretty "light" to me, to be made into port. Heck, quite a few off-dry champagnes are made with pinot noir and chardonnay, blended together, eh?

Not that a port really has to be "heavy," but when I think of the common port wine grapes, they seem like fairly heavy-hitters. Given that it's likely going to be fortified, would pinot noir stand up to that, well enough?

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/4/2016 10:44:06 AM

cp5i6x

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Doug

I realize it's a generalization, but pinot noir seems pretty "light" to me, to be made into port. Heck, quite a few off-dry champagnes are made with pinot noir and chardonnay, blended together, eh?

Not that a port really has to be "heavy," but when I think of the common port wine grapes, they seem like fairly heavy-hitters. Given that it's likely going to be fortified, would pinot noir stand up to that, well enough?

you could make a white port

pinot might be more interesting than gouveio. though the tradition malvasia grapes might still be better

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/4/2016 3:26:21 PM

Old Doug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cp5i6x

you could make a white port

pinot might be more interesting than gouveio. though the tradition malvasia grapes might still be better

Good points, CP. I've heard of white port but never tasted it; some people compare it to sake which doesn't entice me much. Have seen "Taylor Chip Dry Port," too, and it's the level of sweetness that I see as really in play. In the end, if it's a Pinot Port, then I'd hope for some real concentration of the grape flavors.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/4/2016 5:02:27 PM

jmcmchi

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White port exists - the French drink it as an aperitif. It's a pretty good alternative to sherry

Pinot Noir in port style? Sure, but they are expensive grapes to put into a fortified wine. I'll stick to an LBV

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/4/2016 7:34:14 PM

KPB

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White port is nothing like Sake! Much closer to sweet red vermouth.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 2/5/2016 5:35:11 PM

budh

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Also rosé port (but pretty hard to find in U.S.). People in Portugal were drinking lots of white and rose ports as aperitifs when I was there last October. Chilled, they make a nice drink. Even add some frozen blueberries or raspberries for color and flavor.
On thing that makes Port so distinctive is the very heavy extraction that they do right after harvest. That is why they still use lots of foot-treading (and the mechanical processes that replicate it) in the Douro. By stomping the hell out of the grapes for a day or two, they get lots of color and flavor before all the sugar ferments away. So a Pinot or similar grape is either going to be really light, or they will have to add sugar later to make it sweet.

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 3/2/2016 8:46:10 PM

robertgeorgey

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Yes, it does exist but it is known to be a very light and transparent wine. It is very rarely used to make wine. You could find Pinot Noir wines at this online site. http://www.wine.com/v6/Pinot-Noir/wine/list.aspx?N=7155+124+143

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RE: Does it exist - wine made just as Port is, but with... - 3/4/2016 10:28:12 AM

champagneinhand

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I've had White Port from NY State. I have had a sample of NV white port when the Taylor Fladgate/Fonseca rep did a port seminar a few years back. They were really pushing their Solera type port Bin 27, I think. It was the bin that they just keep adding too, while filling from the bottom. It was very good with chèvre and with Roquefort cheese.

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