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What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is "old"?

 
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[Poll]

What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is "old"?


2015 or 5 years from label vintage
  0% (0)
2010 or 10 years from label vintage
  9% (6)
2005 or 15 years from label vintage
  14% (9)
2000 or 20 years from label vintage
  26% (17)
1995 or 25 years from label vintage
  15% (10)
1990 or 30 years from label vintage
  9% (6)
1980 or 40 years from label vintage
  12% (8)
1970 or 50 years from label vintage
  7% (5)
I only drink Madera\Port from the Jeffersonian era so 100+
  0% (0)
Only wine that is older than me
  3% (2)


Total Votes : 63
(last vote on : 10/19/2020 6:48:02 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is "... - 8/6/2020 11:56:28 AM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4509
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		I find myself having a mental bias to a certain year being the line to which I draw the line between Young and old for wines. How about you?
Post #: 1
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 11:59:08 AM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4509
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		I should add I have the same vintage boundary line today that I did 5 and 10 years ago. :)

-Mark

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Post #: 2
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 12:06:01 PM   
forceberry

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 8/4/2017
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Really depends on a wine. I'd say a Condrieu clocking at +10 yo can be considered old, but I wouldn't say any Bordeaux, Barolo or Barbaresco from the 2000's can be called old yet.

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RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 1:21:45 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2779
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline 		I couldn't find a choice that works.

Whether I consider a wine to be "old" depends on the wine and the producer, at a minimum. Plus, it also depends on what you mean by "old".

Does "old" mean towards the end of its drinking window. or past it's peak, or something different?

I tend to use "aged" or "mature" to refer to a wine that has a good number of years on it. When I call a wine "old", I usually mean that it is on the downside...so drink it soon.

(in reply to forceberry)
Post #: 4
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 1:38:57 PM   
wine247365

 

Posts: 1010
Joined: 5/1/2012
From: OC, CA
Status: offline 		“Old” depends on the variety and region.
Poll rating: “flawed”


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Post #: 5
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 1:52:27 PM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

Posts: 7845
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		Age is just a number.

I like this poll, despite the various critics, because as always it depends and almost everything about wine is subjective anyway. The poll was presented as "where is your mental bias dividing line where a wine is old?" which inherently asks you to make your own judgment with whatever variables matter to you when you think "old".

My line is 15 years. In most of the wines I know and drink, I think of 10 as "mature/ready to drink" and 20 as "maybe over the hill". Plenty of individual exceptions, but 15 matched best for me.

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Post #: 6
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 2:32:13 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3597
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I chose 40 for what I think old is because most collectible wines, in my opinion, will be past their drinking window. They may be drinkable but definitely outside of the window with the exception of port and rare bottles.

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Post #: 7
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 2:36:57 PM   
skifree

 

Posts: 3411
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline 		I went with 10 years as that is when I consider my chards, especially white burgs, to be "old" and my Bordeaux to be drinkable.

If I think about my Huet, the answer is "I'm not sure" - the 1986 I tasted a few years ago felt like it had hardly budged in bottle! So I've "resigned" myself to drinking my Huet young!



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Post #: 8
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 3:12:34 PM   
thesternowl

 

Posts: 1782
Joined: 2/5/2011
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: skifree

I went with 10 years as that is when I consider my chards, especially white burgs, to be "old" and my Bordeaux to be drinkable.

If I think about my Huet, the answer is "I'm not sure" - the 1986 I tasted a few years ago felt like it had hardly budged in bottle! So I've "resigned" myself to drinking my Huet young!




I actually love this and will probably be adopting that philosophy with Huet moving forward!

But Huet and some other outliers aside, I don't think of anything much younger than I am (39) to be considered old. Wine, much like us humans, has a life that is impacted by many factors. A well made wine from a great vineyard (like a person with good genetics) is going to age well or poorly based on conditions. I have had many dry wines that are 30-70 years old that seem like they have decades of life left in them and regardless of age, how can I really call them old?

(in reply to skifree)
Post #: 9
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 4:05:32 PM   
hankj

 

Posts: 4672
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Generally when I see a wine that's 10 year past vintage I feel like it's an older wine, whether or not it's ready to drink. My 2995 BDX for instance might never be ready, but seems like it was born quite a long time ago.

I also tend to prefer wines near the front of the drinking window, so when I see a 1985 Napa Cab for instance it seems old and right away I'm more concerned that it's over the hill than happy that it's well seasoned ....

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Post #: 10
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 5:46:09 PM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4509
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		For me the year 2000 is the line. Anything that is younger than 2000 seems too young to think about drinking even if it is at peak 5 years ago. "Old" is not the same thing as being in the window or past peak it is just a frame of reference for me more along the lines of I am not even thinking there is any urgency to drink this before it is over the hill.

_M

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Post #: 11
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 5:51:05 PM   
BenG

 

Posts: 844
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline 		I do like this poll as I like old wine. I find for my favorite wine styles, it's in their 20s when they hit their stride and I consider them "old". If the wine is past it, I would term it "too old" although I'd still probably enjoy it. I think of an "older" wine as older than regular wines, so normally from 10 to 20 years, when often it's not quite at its peak.

Vintage Port is an exception and I feel really guilty (and hope that no-one on Cellar Tracker finds out) if I open it before it's 30.

I would consider 2995 BDX still pretty young.

< Message edited by BenG -- 8/6/2020 5:52:39 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 6:57:24 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		I can't give one answer, firstly because of vintage. Good quality 2001 Cabs are just coming into their own, but most of the same producers' 2000 Cabs are on the downslope. Muddying the waters even more is the variety of grape. Nebbiolo and Grand Cru Burgundy is still young at 15 or 20 years, but to me white Burgundy is past the peak drinking stage by that point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

I would consider 2995 BDX still pretty young.


Yeah, so would everyone.... unless their from 1100 years in the future.

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Post #: 13
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 7:10:05 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		I based my vote on reds since that is what most people age. I have had some wonderful 30- year old whites but generally, they do not go past five or ten years around here.

That being said, I said 30. Twenty years is getting there, but is still rather young for a lot of wines that are going to be age worthy.

Now if we start talking about Three Buck Chuck, I would say three years.

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Post #: 14
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/6/2020 7:15:20 PM   
BenG

 

Posts: 844
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

I can't give one answer, firstly because of vintage. Good quality 2001 Cabs are just coming into their own, but most of the same producers' 2000 Cabs are on the downslope. Muddying the waters even more is the variety of grape. Nebbiolo and Grand Cru Burgundy is still young at 15 or 20 years, but to me white Burgundy is past the peak drinking stage by that point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

I would consider 2995 BDX still pretty young.


Yeah, so would everyone.... unless their from 1100 years in the future.


So I'm wondering if that was a typo or did someone just blow their cover (I'm a big fan of the Canadian show Travelers)?

< Message edited by BenG -- 8/6/2020 7:38:25 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 4:19:13 AM   
lockestep

 

Posts: 1964
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Unionville, PA
Status: offline 		I went with 1990. The wines I still have from the 1980's I always mentally approach with caution, hopes but not expectations. Wines from the 90's I expect to still be in fine shape.*

*This, of course, is not intended for expectations of a bottle of Sutter Home White Zinfandel 1992.

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Post #: 16
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 4:19:18 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23493
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		I found myself thinking it was between 10 and 15 years for my cellar. Also, at my age that’s what I’m willing to look forward to being able to actually drink and taste what I am drinking. Very interesting poll.

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Post #: 17
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 10:36:13 AM   
mc2 wines

 

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/31/2012
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Old generally is a positive to me

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Post #: 18
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 12:08:33 PM   
smahk

 

Posts: 1482
Joined: 2/23/2007
From: NY & FL
Status: offline 		For some reason - 1996. I've pulled bottles vintage 2005 and can't believe its 15 years! That seems like just a moments ago.

however - there are many many wines for me that "OLD" is only a plus - First growth, Grange, Unico etc....

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Post #: 19
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 2:12:14 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4654
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I like this thread... it has me thinking about how subjective the idea of age in wine really is. I have some lovely Mordoree Tavel from 2017 and 2018. For a rose, holding them two or three years is pretty edgy, but these babies age well! On the other hand, I wouldn't hold one for 20 years.

With Napa cabs, I get anxious by 15. Obviously some can age for 20, 30, 50 years... but some can't, and I hate to hold a wine in the expectation that it will be amazing only to pull the cork and smell that nasty compost-heap aroma... or hints of madiera... Napa reds shouldn't smell like madiera (or compost!).

Syrah, in a Hermitage or Cote Rotie style, is often not even fun to drink before age 20. Ages sensationally. Yet a southern rhone style of Syrah might be dead 3 years after you buy it.

So... it depends!

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Post #: 20
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/7/2020 6:15:54 PM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3213
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

So... it depends!


+1

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Post #: 21
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/8/2020 8:33:40 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		I differentiate between aged wines and old wines. 1989 Bordeaux is aged, it is not old.
Of the wines which I like old, as well as aged (Bordeaux, Burgundy, Piemonte, Riesling, N Rhône, Sauternes) I don’t consider them old until at least age 40.

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Post #: 22
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/11/2020 2:39:51 PM   
GalvezGuy

 

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From: Galveston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

I differentiate between aged wines and old wines. 1989 Bordeaux is aged, it is not old.
Of the wines which I like old, as well as aged (Bordeaux, Burgundy, Piemonte, Riesling, N Rhône, Sauternes) I don’t consider them old until at least age 40.

Spot on my friend. I would even go 50 years on some of those and especially on Vega-Sicilia and some Riojas.

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Post #: 23
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/17/2020 12:54:55 PM   
RedLoverJim

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 9/25/2008
From: Hurstville, Texas
Status: offline 		Like most, depends on the wine, producer, etc., yadda yadda. I said 10, because I think if you look at ALL the wines out there, that's probably old for most wines produced/sold, so an unqualified safe answer would be 10 years.

Now for the qualifications: I don't think I, nor most on here, usually drink from that large sampling of wines, but are probably more discerning and so "old" would shift more to the 15, 20 year and beyond mark. I'm not even talking those high end, high priced wines that age for decades, but even looking at some of my quality California Rhone wines, German Rieslings, Bordeaux, Loire (and many others) that I bought for well below the $100 mark, 10 years might be mature for many (and young for others), but I wouldn't call them old.

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Post #: 24
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/18/2020 8:33:34 AM   
dbg

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yup, can’t pick a single answer because it does depend on the wine. And the definition of "old." To me that sounds like a wine past its peak. For me, the key is the age at which a wine is mature, starting to show its best. Some generalizations:

For my taste, in Bordeaux it usually takes around 20 years for the good stuff to predominate. Used to be 10 years back in the 70s and 80s before concentration, alcohol levels, ripeness, and extraction started ramping up. While the stuff from the mid-90s on is more approachable young, it seems to be taking longer to develop the aged tertiary characteristics that I love.

Most California Cabernet from the 80s on has been good to go for my palate by age 5-7, with not much more to be gained by extended cellaring. They add some complexity but they don’t turn into Bordeaux. The classics like Montelena, Ridge Monte Bello, Dunn, Togni (back in the day), La Jota and others are more in the Bordeaux mold, needing 15 years or more to really blossom.

Châteauneuf, the ones I still like that avoid the candied sweetness of over-ripe (to me) Grenache seem best at age 10-20, with a longer tail for some. Northern Rhônes, give them 15 years.

Barolo/Barbaresco, also 15-20 years.

I don’t drink much red Burgundy but I used to live for white Burgs past the 10-15 year mark prior to premox. Now who knows?

Champagne, German Riesling, and Sauternes and Loire stickies all develop over time but I enjoy them at all ages.



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Post #: 25
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/21/2020 7:55:21 PM   
penguinoid

 

Posts: 1055
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mclancy10006

For me the year 2000 is the line. Anything that is younger than 2000 seems too young to think about drinking even if it is at peak 5 years ago. "Old" is not the same thing as being in the window or past peak it is just a frame of reference for me more along the lines of I am not even thinking there is any urgency to drink this before it is over the hill.


I voted for ten years, and interpreted old as meaning, well, aged, not necessarily over the hill or past its peak in any way.

Interesting that an apparently simple phrase can be interpreted in radically different ways

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RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/21/2020 8:17:04 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid


Interesting that an apparently simple phrase can be interpreted in radically different ways


That's why lawyers create 10 page documents for purchase of a vintage car

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Post #: 27
RE: What vintage year\age makes you think the wine is &... - 8/21/2020 9:33:54 PM   
penguinoid

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

Interesting that an apparently simple phrase can be interpreted in radically different ways


That's why lawyers create 10 page documents for purchase of a vintage car


Yes, and with careful definitions of every key term too. It doesn't help that the way words are used in legal documents may not be exactly the same as everyday, colloquial usage (I think, I am not a lawyer!). Then there are often differences between US and UK English, not to mention other versions of English.

Being cynical, I'm tempted to think that lawyers might be tempted to spin out the amount of work they're required to do given their nice hourly rates. I certainly would be

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