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New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/20/2021 5:02:06 PM   
fanglangzhe

 

Posts: 375
Status: offline 		"My impression is the New World wines are likely inflated and the old world wines tend to be a bit more deflated but that might just be that the majority of the members are US folks who enjoy US wines." -mc2 wines.


I find this statement to be very interesting and with some truth to it. The majority of wine drinkers may well prefer the "new world" flavour profile in terms of riper fruit, less tannins, more oak, etc. I disagree with the claim that this is mainly a US phenomena. Such "new world" wines also tend to get higher scores on Vivino and their user base is much less US-centric than CT.

Some of us CTers hate jammy fruit-bombs (including myself) but I think we're in the minority. Wine makers who make fruit-bomb wines are making them because they sell! Such wines may be also easier to make in many regions because of global warming but that's just an additional benefit.

< Message edited by fanglangzhe -- 12/20/2021 5:39:33 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/20/2021 7:50:58 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		The PDC vs AFWE debate.

< Message edited by CranBurgundy -- 12/20/2021 7:51:12 PM >

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(in reply to fanglangzhe)
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RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/21/2021 7:46:40 AM   
fanglangzhe

 

Posts: 375
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

The PDC vs AFWE debate.


Yes, and PDC is winning by a huge margin. Has been for at least the last 20 years. AFWE is and will remain a minority fringe (whose members include myself).

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 3
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/21/2021 8:54:50 AM   
mc2 wines

 

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/31/2012
From: NYC
Status: offline 		I tend to like both depending on the circumstances assuming its a well made wine. I find usually we're spending more for a well made PDC wine (the epitome of this is Hundred Acre which is huge and yet somehow seems to work despite that) than AFWE (where there's good examples in even the $50-100 range depending on the region). And that might not be totally fair. In reality I think I like a wine that's somewhere in the middle of the two. Fruit isn't a bad thing but I like wines to have some balance as well.

Perhaps PDC is winning the broader population, but within the narrower wine circles it seems like folks have mostly turned a bit more old world in style. I think I've been told about a thousand times that all roads lead to Burgundy.


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RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/21/2021 9:26:25 AM   
Wine Grove

 

Posts: 714
Joined: 11/9/2017
From: San Clemente, CA
Status: offline 		mc2 wines, I can't agree with you more, well stated.

(in reply to mc2 wines)
Post #: 5
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/21/2021 10:50:12 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I am very negative about fruit bombs but I don’t associate them purely with California anymore, and conversely, I’ve discovered more and more Napa reds that I love, and yet they often do have a balance in which ripeness can be more evident than with most Bordeaux. So I see a New World style, definitely, and an Old World style perhaps also, but for me your original post seems to be focused on fruit and alcohol over balance, which in my view is a different thing than broader style!

I would phrase it this way: excessive ripeness and a lack of balance results in unappealing wines, no matter where they are made!



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RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 1:52:22 AM   
fanglangzhe

 

Posts: 375
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines
Perhaps PDC is winning the broader population, but within the narrower wine circles it seems like folks have mostly turned a bit more old world in style. I think I've been told about a thousand times that all roads lead to Burgundy.


I agree, but it also depends on which narrower wine circles you're talking about. I'm sure there are wine circles that prefer PDC over AFWE, and think that Burgundy is totally over-rated.

(in reply to mc2 wines)
Post #: 7
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 6:16:22 AM   
DrBad

 

Posts: 724
Joined: 5/4/2018
Status: online 		PDC? Play del Carmen? Professional Darts Corporation? Plasmacytoid Dendritic Cells? Pretty Darn Cute? Couldn't find that acronym anywhere...

I agree Burgundy, IMO, is overrated. Is there any other wine region where people need to gargle to pull out the flavors? Joking (sort of). I do like the wines but for me the price to get into the good wines and the time required to age them where they become enjoyable is prohibitive. I'm also averse to tartness in wine, which rules out a lot of young Burgundy and young Oregon Pinot Noir for me.

As far as New World vs Old world, most people don't have the patience or facilities to age Old World wines like many of them need to be to be appreciated. And people in general, I believe, gravitate towards simpler vs more complex flavors.

I personally enjoy both more subtle wines and big, in your face wines.


quote:

ORIGINAL: fanglangzhe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines
Perhaps PDC is winning the broader population, but within the narrower wine circles it seems like folks have mostly turned a bit more old world in style. I think I've been told about a thousand times that all roads lead to Burgundy.


I agree, but it also depends on which narrower wine circles you're talking about. I'm sure there are wine circles that prefer PDC over AFWE, and think that Burgundy is totally over-rated.

quote:

PDC


< Message edited by DrBad -- 12/22/2021 6:43:51 AM >

(in reply to fanglangzhe)
Post #: 8
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 7:07:14 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 8248
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		Not positive, but I think it stands for “Purple Drinking Cretin”

(in reply to DrBad)
Post #: 9
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 7:47:43 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		The challenge with Burgundy for North Americans is that the really good stuff that cost 70 euros or less are quickly snapped up and don’t really make it of the area. That leaves the more expensive or really expensive stuff that are good to folks with deep pockets.

< Message edited by DoubleD1969 -- 12/22/2021 7:48:15 AM >

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 10
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 8:20:29 AM   
DrBad

 

Posts: 724
Joined: 5/4/2018
Status: online 		Ha! Well, for the record, I prefer the term AFWS over AFWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Not positive, but I think it stands for “Purple Drinking Cretin”



(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 11
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 9:41:42 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline 		Having googled it so you don't have to bother:

Purple Drank Crowd vs Anti-Flavor Wine Elite

The observant might have got a clue to one of them from DrCran's signature.

(in reply to DrBad)
Post #: 12
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 10:06:05 AM   
DrBad

 

Posts: 724
Joined: 5/4/2018
Status: online 		Thank you. Yes, I could have gotten it from the signature which I didn't see.

I did search for "PDC meaning wine" and this definition did not show up. But adding cellartracker brings up a poll from 2017.

AFWS: Anti Flavor Wine Snob. Hey if Cretin' is OK then so is Snob ;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

Having googled it so you don't have to bother:

Purple Drank Crowd vs Anti-Flavor Wine Elite

The observant might have got a clue to one of them from DrCran's signature.


(in reply to Echinosum)
Post #: 13
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 10:57:26 AM   
RedRedMoreRed

 

Posts: 1770
Joined: 3/4/2017
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

Ha! Well, for the record, I prefer the term AFWS over AFWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Not positive, but I think it stands for “Purple Drinking Cretin”




Close but not quite. It's actually:

Purple Drankin' Cretin

_____________________________

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(in reply to DrBad)
Post #: 14
RE: New World vs Old World wine style & their scores - 12/22/2021 7:59:59 PM   
penguinoid

 

Posts: 1058
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines

I tend to like both depending on the circumstances assuming its a well made wine.



I'd agree on this. I tend to prefer old world wines in general, but there are quite a few new world wines I love, including some very full bodied Barossa wines. I'd hate to have to choose.

As for score inflation, I wonder if it's partly that this is more of an issue in the US & Australia vs. what it is in the UK & France? In Australia at least, 90 points seems to mean "good" for a lot of critics and consumers. Below 90 points may as well be "unacceptable", which is a bit absurd.

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Post #: 15
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