quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnNezlek
I think for the money (and the accessibility), LBV typically represents a good value.
Two of my favs (based on TNs) are Quinta do Castro and Smith Woodhouse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
I think we established in a previous thread that QdCastro is unfiltered. I have found pictures of a Smith Woodhouse 2009 LBV clearly saying unfiltered clearly on it. Though I think the SW label is not much in use any more now that Symingtons, who own it, have bought Cockburns, a better known label.

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7
Thinking I should purchase another 10 or 20 year tawny....in the name of science of course. Still remember the hotel bar in Boston serving me a 30 yr tawny the night before the Boston Marathon a few years back. That didn't suck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG
We did a Grahams tasting when we were in Porto, which included the 10, 20 and 30 year port. 20 year was a huge improvement on 10. 30 was a bit better than 20 but hard to justify the price (around twice as much). We also liked Taylor Fladgate 20 year old, which we had after dinner in Braga.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnNezlek
I think for the money (and the accessibility), LBV typically represents a good value.
Two of my favs (based on TNs) are Quinta do Castro and Smith Woodhouse.

Let me introduce to you, if you are unaware of it, the concept of Crusted Port.

LBVs are of course vintage wines, not NV. And there is a big difference in style between filtered and unfiltered LBVs. In my view unfiltered LBVs are much better, to the extent that I wouldn't drink a filtered LBV, not even from leading houses like Taylors. Out of LBVs, only unfiltered LBVs are proper port in my view. I think we established in a previous thread that QdCastro is unfiltered. I have found pictures of a Smith Woodhouse 2009 LBV clearly saying unfiltered clearly on it. Though I think the SW label is not much in use any more now that Symingtons, who own it, have bought Cockburns, a better known label.

But these unfiltered LBVs, being the thing most close to proper vintage ports, do benefit from aging, good ones for 20 years or more. You can drink them on release, and they can be delicious on release. But often they are intended to be aged in bottle for a time, often a decade or more. I'm sure people would recommend this for top ones like Warres LBV. So they aren't really drink-it-now wines like true NV productions. Though there are also, in general, NV wines worth aging - like champagne for example.

But there is an NV version of unfiltered LBV. It is even quite an old idea. It is called Crusted Port. It is essentially a cross-year blend of unfiltered LBVs. It rather fell out of fashion for a while. But it's coming back, and there's quite a bit on the market now, and even from leading houses like Grahams and Fonseca. It doesn't actually cost very much different from LBVs of that quality.

So for me, Crusted Port is the only kind of NV port (tawnies aside) I would drink. Because it is the only kind of NV port that is proper port.

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ORIGINAL: khmark7

Crusted? Never seen this. This gives me another reason to visit my local wine shop. Curse you!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts
Here's a link to a good summary of the different styles of Port wine:

https://www.vivino.com/wine-news/the-types-of-port-wine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ClausP

Not really sure I think it's worth chasing the crusted ports, they are 30-50% more expensive than lbv of the same age, and not really offering much extra in drinking pleasure.
You are basically paying for the producer to bottle age the wine for at least three years, which off course is more expensive than keeping the juice in a giant vat for more or less the same time.

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ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

ORIGINAL: ClausP

Not really sure I think it's worth chasing the crusted ports, they are 30-50% more expensive than lbv of the same age, and not really offering much extra in drinking pleasure.
You are basically paying for the producer to bottle age the wine for at least three years, which off course is more expensive than keeping the juice in a giant vat for more or less the same time.

Agree. Proper Vintage from smaller producers isn't expensive enough for it to make a difference (IIRC, Crusted was a VP "replacement" for the British customers, where unfiltered ruby from "off-vintage" vintages were blended and commanded a smaller price than the proper stuff, but still required some ageing. Later, LBV swooped in (at the behest of restaurants, or so I've read who couldn't afford storing VP for 20+ years, and probably didn't see the charm in crust?) and covered that end of the market - again at a lower price than proper VP.

As the use of second-wines and single quinta bottlings in off-vintage years took off with practically all producers, along side filtered and unfiltered LBV, crusted (re?)appeared on the market sort of as a nostalgic product, rather than the need to fill a gap in the port market. At least that's my take on it. And I don't appreciate (and drink) nearly enough port, let alone ruby port, to really justify diving into crusted. I have plenty of mature VP's and access to affordable new VP to really bother.
I'm much more interested in the newer white colheitas etc. that began appearing 10+ years ago.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

We did a Grahams tasting when we were in Porto, which included the 10, 20 and 30 year port. 20 year was a huge improvement on 10. 30 was a bit better than 20 but hard to justify the price (around twice as much). We also liked Taylor Fladgate 20 year old, which we had after dinner in Braga.

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ORIGINAL: Echinosum
I hadn't noticed colheita white ports. On searching I find they are available here, but not very much. And it's seems to be pretty much all Kopke. I've tended to think of white port as being rather limited in terms of quality - Taylor sells its Chip Dry, and that's it, for example. I don't mind having an aperitif of white port when in Portugal, but when I arrive home I'd rather spend my money on sherry. It always made me wonder why they didn't try harder to make better versions, it must be possible, and perhaps that's what's now happening.

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ORIGINAL: Jenise

I love port and own several dozen vintage bottles but almost never open them because the quantity's daunting for just the two of us. Among NV's, the Fonseca is my favorite (she said, to stay on topic).

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ORIGINAL: Jenise

That's right, I'm going to serve real port to a whole room full of happy holiday diners for $42, all-in, and they'll feel pampered. How could that not be my favorite???

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ORIGINAL: fingers

Jenise, my younger colleagues would say you're "crushing it!"

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ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

Was my take on White port too, until recently: It was a (semi)dry cheap whatever from the bottom shelves.
Only later, I realized it's widely used as a base for many aged tawnies and I can recommend you try an aged whits (they come in 10yo etc. as well). It's a very full, pleaseant experience

White port and tonic with a fresh basil leaf, on ice, is a very pleasant summer afternoon patio cocktail.

(in reply to nwinther)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers
Jenise, my younger colleagues would say you're "crushing it!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenise

Dow's Tawny is only $16/750 ml.

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ORIGINAL: Jenise

quote:

ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

Was my take on White port too, until recently: It was a (semi)dry cheap whatever from the bottom shelves.
Only later, I realized it's widely used as a base for many aged tawnies and I can recommend you try an aged whits (they come in 10yo etc. as well). It's a very full, pleaseant experience

White port and tonic with a fresh basil leaf, on ice, is a very pleasant summer afternoon patio cocktail.

Agree. However there is just SO much else, that is a pleasant summer afternoon (or just afternoon) drink, that I never make that one myself.

_____________________________

What I lack in size I make up for in obnoxiousness.

(in reply to Jenise)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nwinther

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
I hadn't noticed colheita white ports. On searching I find they are available here, but not very much. And it's seems to be pretty much all Kopke. I've tended to think of white port as being rather limited in terms of quality - Taylor sells its Chip Dry, and that's it, for example. I don't mind having an aperitif of white port when in Portugal, but when I arrive home I'd rather spend my money on sherry. It always made me wonder why they didn't try harder to make better versions, it must be possible, and perhaps that's what's now happening.

Was my take on White port too, until recently: It was a (semi)dry cheap whatever from the bottom shelves.
Only later, I realized it's widely used as a base for many aged tawnies and I can recommend you try an aged whits (they come in 10yo etc. as well). It's a very full, pleaseant experience, and while perhaps less complex than the aged red (tawny), you are in for a good time. Makes sense why they might be interesting in their own right (as colheitas/aged).