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[Poll]

Auctions -am I wrong

-25%+ under release price/cost

18% (2)

-20% under release price/cost

45% (5)

-10% under release price/cost

18% (2)

At release price/cost

0% (0)

+10% over release price/cost

0% (0)

+20% over release price/cost

0% (0)

+25%+ over release price/cost

18% (2)

Total Votes : 11

(last vote on : 1/11/2018 5:30:39 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Auctions -am I wrong - 7/17/2015 3:23:58 PM

vinopkm

Posts: 2638
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline

What is the group/forums thoughts on Auctions.
What should the min. bid start at for a bottle of wine. Not what it should close at- I understand auctions and its worth whatever someone is willing to pay.

Ex. 2006 Martinelli Zin G&L on Spectrum Wine Auction- release price/cost is $50... starting bid on their Auction $70.83... $425 for 6 bottles.
To me that is crazy and someone would be dumb to start a bid at that price. This is a guilty pleasure wine for me. Also on top of the $425 is a 20% buyer premium.

There are a couple other examples... A 2006 Banfi Brunello at 10% over release price/cost- prior to the 20% Buyer Premium... I visited the Banfi winery in 2006 so wanted some more bottles.

Am I crazy??? What am I missing- I can see starting at release price and see what happens with the bidding... but to start 10-20% over release price/cost prior to bidding (and then a 20% BP on top of that)- no thank you. And I guess that is why these lots have been renewed the past 2-3 months with no bidding.

What is your reasonable expectation on selling wine in an auction? I know every ones goal is to make money. But these aren't 1st growth wines.

< Message edited by vinopkm -- 7/17/2015 3:24:44 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 7/17/2015 3:28:59 PM

recotte

Posts: 6866
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline

I don't expect the auction cost to have any direct relationship to the release price. My anticipation is that it should be--with buyer premium included--some amount of discount vs. the current retail price. If it's the same or more, I'm more likely to buy retail from a trusted store than roll the auction dice.

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(in reply to vinopkm)

Post #: 2

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 7/17/2015 5:21:27 PM

GalvezGuy

Posts: 5864
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline

My take on auctions is that I will only buy what I could never get at a retailer, especially here in TX. I have had pretty good luck with auction finds. I have only been really what I could called burned once on hundreds of bottles. Generally auction price has no relation to retail or release price. Sometimes it is higher, sometimes it is lower, it all depends on who else is bidding and how much you or they want that particular lot.

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Post #: 3

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 7/17/2015 5:36:07 PM

Chip Merlot

Posts: 529
Joined: 10/13/2013
From: NJ
Status: offline

Agreed, the poll questions don't work for me because I go by current retail not release price.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)

Post #: 4

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 7/17/2015 7:22:53 PM

champagneinhand

Posts: 10281
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline

It all depends. I will cherry pick deals right before the close or have on the past. I got a load of Barolo and Amarone for $20-$30 and that's just how it works sometimes. Sometimes people aren't buying German dessert wines and you can take a chance.

I've only bought one auction item this year and it's a fairly newer release. Other years I've enjoyed deal hunting. Where people aren't focused is what I'll focus on in Summers. See them in the Fall. Caveat Emptor as auctions can hold stingers. Know what you are buying. Look early and follow and decide where you will bail. Bid early at your own peril.

Just my thoughts. I like provenance. So I usually will buy on release but never say never.

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Post #: 5

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 11:26:50 AM

PinotPhile

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline

I am bumping this thread as it is somewhat recent based on a search. Hope this is OK.

Next month, we will be attending a silent wine auction for a nonprofit. First-timers. I have no knowledge of what to expect. Thus far, more than 50 lots are available, typically 2-3 bottles of similar wines. I can easily price compare based on various sources. That said, any thoughts based on your experience on issues such as when to bid, how to bid, etc.? I am fully prepared to walk away if it turns into one of those "high-roller-type" bidding wars. But I might like to participate in addition to learning.

Any input appreciated.

(in reply to champagneinhand)

Post #: 6

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 12:03:45 PM

CranBurgundy

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline

There are a couple things I don't like about auctions.... First off, take "temperature controlled storage" with a grain of salt. Unless the seller is the original owner who bought it on release, has good storage (under 65˚ maximum), AND CAN PROVE BOTH, I don't trust the condition of the wine inside the bottle. I've had too many less-than-ideal wines come from auctions to believe that line. There's a few Berserkers who think auctions are where poor bottles get unloaded, and they probably are right sometimes. Second, auction fever catches too many people. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm not paying what ends up being near or even over retail when I can buy the same wine from a trusted reseller. The hammer price, including the buyer's premium, has to be low enough to make it worth the risk. Vintage Port, some sweet dessert wines, and other fortified wines might hold up better against poor storage so I'm more likely to roll the dice on them than a more delicate white or red Burgundy. Lastly, unless it's an EXTREMELY hard to find wine, there will be another opportunity to purchase soon enough. I don't seek rare bottles anyway, so I never panic-bid. Patience is key to getting good deals.

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Post #: 7

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 12:50:44 PM

wineismylife

Posts: 6490
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Arlington, TX
Status: offline

I keep it simple. I review the lots being offered. I pick the ones I'm interested in. I determine what is the maximum I want to pay for each lot. I offer up to that amount within the final minutes of the auction and if I win I win. pretty simple and straightforward.

Remember: you indicated this is an auction for charity (non-profit). Although we all like to get a good deal when we can the focus here is the charity, not how cheap you can get it.

< Message edited by wineismylife -- 1/10/2018 12:52:06 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 1:52:49 PM

Scott W

Posts: 955
Joined: 11/20/2012
From: Sherman Oaks Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

I am bumping this thread as it is somewhat recent based on a search. Hope this is OK.

Next month, we will be attending a silent wine auction for a nonprofit. First-timers. I have no knowledge of what to expect. Thus far, more than 50 lots are available, typically 2-3 bottles of similar wines. I can easily price compare based on various sources. That said, any thoughts based on your experience on issues such as when to bid, how to bid, etc.? I am fully prepared to walk away if it turns into one of those "high-roller-type" bidding wars. But I might like to participate in addition to learning.

Any input appreciated.

I have found that these auctions people just bid random high amounts because they want to support the "cause" so you will rarely find a bargain. That being said I usually throw money at a few items to show my support and if I actually win anything (not often) it's a bonus.

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Post #: 9

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 2:07:24 PM

CranBurgundy

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline

Doh! Missed the whole "charity" thing.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to Scott W)

Post #: 10

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 6:33:00 PM

skifree

Posts: 3406
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline

I have attended several charity events with silent wine auctions, and have donated wine as well.

My experience is that expensive wines go for well less than what they are worth - especially if they are not well know to the audience at the auction. For example, there were 2 bottles of 2007 Kongsgaard Hudson Valley Syrah among many other items at an auction for a local theatre group. I did not know the wine, looked it up on CT on my phone, and quickly bid and won it for $63 even though average price on CT is $136.

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Post #: 11

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/10/2018 7:23:21 PM

gman

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline

I look at charity auctions differently than regular commercial ones. For charity auctions, if it's a wine I'd have any interest at all in drinking, I'll continue to bid on a wine until it reaches at least its market value. if it's something I really like I'll continue to bid beyond that up to about 20% over market value. It is for charity after all.
For retail auctions it's a different deal. Regardless of what the starting bid is I'm looking for a discount off of retail since I have no recourse for bad bottles. This includes whatever the vig is. I will say that more and more auction houses are raising their opening bids close to the retail so when you factor in the vig you're already at or above low retail. This totally eliminates the value of buying at auction. Case in point is WineBid, they have totally lost sight of what the auction model is and the average weekly number and quality of the auction lots have gradually dropped off over the last couple of years.

< Message edited by gman -- 1/10/2018 7:24:37 PM >

(in reply to skifree)

Post #: 12

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/11/2018 11:06:41 AM

PinotPhile

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline

Thanks to all who have responded thus far. Good ideas, as usual.

My current plan is to narrow the list down to 6 to 10 lots in which I have an interest based on varietal, vintage, and source of donor. For example, some wines are winery-donated with the vintner attending the event. Then, at the auction, I will physically inspect the target list for fill level, bottle condition, etc. And, later, if bidding seems appropriate given what I know about retail pricing and the cause, I may participate and set a total amount for bids "not to exceed".

It's about the cause, the experience, and the learning. But no point in setting us up to take home wine we would not purchase in any other circumstance. There are always, always other opportunities to get vino.

Sounds like a plan...ya think?

(in reply to gman)

Post #: 13

RE: Auctions -am I wrong - 1/11/2018 4:15:23 PM

midpalate

Posts: 606
Status: offline

I don't like to buy at auction unless it comes in at under 1/2 of current retail, or release price (whichever is lower), including the buyer premium. Needless to say: 1) that means I'm pretty selective about what I bid on, and 2) I get insanely good deals.

Edit: I also missed the "charity thing". But the above goes for my buying strategy (which is why I'm probably not a good customer for a charity auction :-)

< Message edited by midpalate -- 1/11/2018 4:16:07 PM >

(in reply to vinopkm)

Post #: 14