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ORIGINAL: atlantean

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ORIGINAL: hankj

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ORIGINAL: BRR

hankj, I just have to comment here, because you know I love you. It's not that any of us have a problem with the fact that you truly don't like a lot of what WA State has to offer. That's great, and you shouldn't drink what you don't like. It's just that you appear to take any opportunity you can find to mention your distaste for so many WA Wines and, at times, it tip-toes on hinting that those of us that love them just don't know what we're drinking and have poor palates. Color me sensitive, but that's just my two cents. Go and drink your greeny, leany meanies and be happy!

Not trying to rub it in Brandon! And there are a lot of Washington wines I like!

I do though feel like the WA wine industry A) invents AVA's for marketing purposes from some mostly indistinct terroirs, and B) along with wildly overblowing annual differences (boy this 3000 gdd year sure is leaner than last year's 3250), local collectors then to some extent falsely believe that they accutely and accurately perceive these differences.

I can see how my occassional but regular pointing out "wait a minute, the emperor might not be fully dressed" (along with my refrain about WA's all around hot climate, so overdone is overkill and unfortunately done too often) can be seen as calling taste into question. But I also know that we all have different palates. People seem to love 2007 Quilceda Creek. To me it seems like a hot mess wall of muddled noise that will never come around. I really hope that doesn't make you or any other connoisseurs enjoy it any less, nor rue the $200 it cost! Lord know a cavalcade of winos are out there more than ready to take it off your hands at a profit if you've had enough.

The Washington wine industry, on the other hand, if they hear my voice and don't like it, tough isht. Just because I live here doesn't mean I have any obligation to support their $$$ driven mythologies. In fact I'd argue that random voices like mine persistently complaining about their big hot corporate steak house red trend of the 1990's and 2000's helped prompt change for the better. Beer the same - every time I walk into a Seattle bar (like twice a week) and am faced with a list of 8 syrupy super hoppy local options and 1 badly made pilsner, I'm gonna ask why they don't have an interesting dry lighter bodied ale on hand for those of us who don't consider chili dogs haute cuisine.

In short I'm truly happy for you and everyone else whose palates track to WA as a whole! My critiques are really directed at the industry in the hopes of flexing the market maybe just a little more to my palate. Probably I'm just shouting into the void, but if I do nudge the battleship even a little it's worth it.

Having shared30+ blind tastings with you I can say I usually found your comments passionate and thoughtful. Sometimes I agreed and learned something. Sometimes I knew that different strokes for different folks. Do miss the monthly events.

That being said middle of the road emplacement 12 Walla2 on the menu tonight.

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Opened up a 2009 Betz La Serenne tonight and decanted 3 hours. Again, my frame of reference for Syrah is Araujo Eisele and Carlisle Papas Block. This wine was more what I was used to unlike The Rocks AVA.

That being said, I found the wine tart, thin and not nearly as rounded of a Syrah compared to what I'm used to. This wine is not over ripe by any means but I found it not quite as full as California Syrah. There was also an alcohol component that wasn't quite integrated. I am not making any judgements yet because it's still early in my comparison. I need to try more Washington Syrah because it's different, no doubt. More to come.

Rick

Thanks for the note WGDM! It's amazing someone would think an Eastern Washington wine was thin. Maybe even "lean". I've been told they were all big blobby messes and all of Eastern Washington was just like Red Mountain.

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ORIGINAL: hankj

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Opened up a 2009 Betz La Serenne tonight and decanted 3 hours. Again, my frame of reference for Syrah is Araujo Eisele and Carlisle Papas Block. This wine was more what I was used to unlike The Rocks AVA.

That being said, I found the wine tart, thin and not nearly as rounded of a Syrah compared to what I'm used to. This wine is not over ripe by any means but I found it not quite as full as California Syrah. There was also an alcohol component that wasn't quite integrated. I am not making any judgements yet because it's still early in my comparison. I need to try more Washington Syrah because it's different, no doubt. More to come.

Rick

Thanks for the note WGDM! It's amazing someone would think an Eastern Washington wine was thin. Maybe even "lean". I've been told they were all big blobby messes and all of Eastern Washington was just like Red Mountain.

Touche Chris. Re: Betz I've found their wines to be all over the map in weight, style and quality, from one of the very best WA Syrah's I've had to a few that were outright lousy. At least the winemaker is going for it- not at all a play it safe and find the middle approach ...

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ORIGINAL: dsGris

2009 Betz Family Syrah La Serenne - USA, Washington, Columbia Valley, Yakima Valley (8/10/2016)
This may be a bad bottle, but it is terrible. I hold off on trashing a wine that has gotten a lot of acclaim. All I get is bitter stems and green blackberries. Out of deference to others I will not rate tonight, but mix with some cran/raspberry/laCroix for a wine cooler. NR (flawed)

Posted from CellarTracker

This one was a bit better.

2010 Betz Family Bésoleil - USA, Washington, Columbia Valley (3/26/2016)
Dark purple ruby with red plum, cedar nose. Dry, crisp red fruit, lightly woody tannins, medium to full body and fruit, a bit of astringent acid with the tannins. Old world style, muted but not restrained fruit balanced well with the acid and tannins, a touch of bitter on the finish. 89pts on opening.
After a couple of hours, the rough edges have softened giving bright red berry, raspberry and red currants with well balanced acid and smooth tannins. More on the fruity than austere side and a joy to drink now. (92 pts.)

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Tonight was a 2011 Force Majeure Collaboration III Syrah. My notes are as follows. Decanted 2 hours and tasted an hour after decant. Way more balanced that the 2009 Betz La Serenne without the green stemmy disjointed taste. That being said it is thin, still tart and not as rounded and full as the Cali Syrahs we are used to. Light mouth feel. No glycerin. Smells like Syrah but is lacking in structure.

Maybe I'm expecting too much or maybe Washington State Syrah is just not for me. Just to be sure, opened and decanted a 2012 Carlisle Papas Block Syrah for comparison. This was a complete butt kicking by the Carlisle. So much more full, extracted and heavier mouth feel. Maybe we just like the more extracted Cali Syrahs which is what we're used to?? Don't know. For those that like both styles would just like confirmation to what we're tasting but still haven't been wowed by a Washington Syrah. Maybe it's not going to happen. Maybe we just prefer the heavier weight Cali style. Have some Myriad and Quivet Syrah coming next week which might confirm our style of preference. So far it's Cali all the way.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Tonight was a 2011 Force Majeure Collaboration III Syrah. My notes are as follows. Decanted 2 hours and tasted an hour after decant. Way more balanced that the 2009 Betz La Serenne without the green stemmy disjointed taste. That being said it is thin, still tart and not as rounded and full as the Cali Syrahs we are used to. Light mouth feel. No glycerin. Smells like Syrah but is lacking in structure.

Maybe I'm expecting too much or maybe Washington State Syrah is just not for me. Just to be sure, opened and decanted a 2012 Carlisle Papas Block Syrah for comparison. This was a complete butt kicking by the Carlisle. So much more full, extracted and heavier mouth feel. Maybe we just like the more extracted Cali Syrahs which is what we're used to?? Don't know. For those that like both styles would just like confirmation to what we're tasting but still haven't been wowed by a Washington Syrah. Maybe it's not going to happen. Maybe we just prefer the heavier weight Cali style. Have some Myriad and Quivet Syrah coming next week which might confirm our style of preference. So far it's Cali all the way.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Tonight was a 2011 Force Majeure Collaboration III Syrah. My notes are as follows. Decanted 2 hours and tasted an hour after decant. Way more balanced that the 2009 Betz La Serenne without the green stemmy disjointed taste. That being said it is thin, still tart and not as rounded and full as the Cali Syrahs we are used to. Light mouth feel. No glycerin. Smells like Syrah but is lacking in structure.

Maybe I'm expecting too much or maybe Washington State Syrah is just not for me. Just to be sure, opened and decanted a 2012 Carlisle Papas Block Syrah for comparison. This was a complete butt kicking by the Carlisle. So much more full, extracted and heavier mouth feel. Maybe we just like the more extracted Cali Syrahs which is what we're used to?? Don't know. For those that like both styles would just like confirmation to what we're tasting but still haven't been wowed by a Washington Syrah. Maybe it's not going to happen. Maybe we just prefer the heavier weight Cali style. Have some Myriad and Quivet Syrah coming next week which might confirm our style of preference. So far it's Cali all the way.

Rick

Well, I'm not even gonna try to explain that 2011 is thought to be the leanest WA vintage in the past decade or so. I do own a few bottles of the wine you just drank, so will open one soon to see what my palate thinks.

WGDM, I think you clearly have a CA Syrah suited palate. I'm a bit baffled since I can't tell the wide difference between the WA wines and the CA examples I've tried, but there is obviously something missing for your palate vs. what you like in CA Syrah. It would be interesting to do a blind tasting with you someday with some bigger WA Syrah along side some CA favorites of yours and talk about the differences.

I know I've trained my palate with what I drink (and enjoy) the most, and everybody should do the same imo particularly when the entry point and access for some varieties/regions is quite expensive. I know I've never gone down the Burgundy path after trying several examples at tastings, and even have just a few OR Pinots that I'll buy to avoid too much costly fly casting. Same with Nebbiolo. I like it some of the time, but don't have enough patience or funds to learn it enough to differentiate and seek out favorites.

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My wife told me last night that I shouldn't expect to be Wowed with EVERY bottle I drank. I said, Why not? Is that too much to ask when spending the money we spend for these wines?

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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My wife told me last night that I shouldn't expect to be Wowed with EVERY bottle I drank. I said, Why not? Is that too much to ask when spending the money we spend for these wines?

Bingo. I agree we should expect a wow experience when investing $50+ in a bottle of wine. For the less than wow experience I can afford $20 or so, but not $50, and certainly not approaching $100+ especially when experimenting.

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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My wife told me last night that I shouldn't expect to be Wowed with EVERY bottle I drank. I said, Why not? Is that too much to ask when spending the money we spend for these wines?

Bingo. I agree we should expect a wow experience when investing $50+ in a bottle of wine. For the less than wow experience I can afford $20 or so, but not $50, and certainly not approaching $100+ especially when experimenting.

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ORIGINAL: dbg

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

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My wife told me last night that I shouldn't expect to be Wowed with EVERY bottle I drank. I said, Why not? Is that too much to ask when spending the money we spend for these wines?

Bingo. I agree we should expect a wow experience when investing $50+ in a bottle of wine. For the less than wow experience I can afford $20 or so, but not $50, and certainly not approaching $100+ especially when experimenting.

In my experience $50 is no guarantee of a WOW, unless you count "WOW, that was a lot of money for a wine that wasn’t much better than ok." Over time, as I’ve learned what I like and what to expect from various producers, the hit rate has gone up. There’s still an occasional surprise dud. And I know there are some unexploded munitions resting in the cellar that are highly unlikely to be WOWs.

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I would expect it to be lighter in weight and body than a syrah grown 500 miles to the south in warmer weather.

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hankj

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I would expect it to be lighter in weight and body than a syrah grown 500 miles to the south in warmer weather.


Farther north yes, but Eastern Washington is hotterEastern Washington is hotter than basically all of the NorCal wine country, including Napaincluding Napa.

On the Davis Index Napa might be higher as it stays warm later in the evening compared to Eastern WA, but it is hot in summer in the Eastern part of our state!

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Agreed. Than add a factor that really counts in Wa - the lower night temperatures that allow more acidity than you would expect otherwise

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

My note on 2011 Force Majeure III:

89 points. Nose is blackberry tar lavender, palate is medium to lightweight blackberry, short finish, drying tannins. Pretty direct varietal correct $20 Syrah. Unfortunately it cost almost 3 x that much.

I have no idea what people are tasting that they think warrants 93 point average. Very underwhelming.

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ORIGINAL: Slye

You should sign up for secret santa some year.......

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ORIGINAL: BornToRhone

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: wine247365

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

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ORIGINAL: BornToRhone

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Force Majeure

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ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

Force Majeure (2009 Force Majeure Syrah Collaboration Series Reserve Ciel du Cheval Vineyard)

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ORIGINAL: wine247365

Force Majeure

Wasn't that a Chuck Norris movie?

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ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

Well...Finally a Washington Syrah I can get my arms around. I still need to drink more Reynvaan but it's a different style. Opened a 2009 Betz La Cote Rousse Red Mountain. I like it YAY !!! So far I'd give it a 90 but only been opened an hour.

Nice dark purple, nice fruit and more of a Syrah that I'm used to but not as sweet and over ripe which I really like. The only knock I have is it has a certain dryness or dried out taste but not horrible? Is this dried tannins? Trying to think if this is something I've tasted before but don't think so. Would like other opinions on what this dryness is. It was worse on opening and seems to be getting better though.

This will be great with pepperoni homemade pizza. Diet is out the door. Eff It....Holiday Season has started

Rick

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WineGuyDelMar
Well...Finally a Washington Syrah I can get my arms around. I still need to drink more Reynvaan but it's a different style. Opened a 2009 Betz La Cote Rousse Red Mountain. I like it YAY !!! So far I'd give it a 90 but only been opened an hour.