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Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 10:56:17 AM   
gregorymboelter

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/23/2016
Status: offline 		What a difference a vintage makes. I just participated in an unusual three-vintage blind Cabernet wine tasting set up by the Napa Valley Vintners as part of their Premiere Napa Valley promotional event and auction.

The years were 2002, 2003 and 2004, from 12 representative wineries up and down the valley. To me it confirmed that 2003 is an excellent vintage with its own personality, while 2002 and 2004 are stylistically similar to each other, deeper, fatter and more massive than 2003, which has classic Napa Cabernet aromas, pretty fruit flavors and great balance. You pick which style you like, and buy them while they last.

Winemakers around Napa have been quietly griping since James Laube of Wine Spectator gave the 2003 mediocre marks last fall, and advised people generally not to buy the vintage, especially since the prices had not dropped from 2002. He maintained that 2003 counts as the third off vintage in the six years from 1998 to 2003, making it a bad run in general.
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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 11:45:06 AM   
KPB

 

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From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Sounds like a fun event, but I’m surprised that Laub was sounding off about wines that are nearly 15 years old. Is there an active market in aged Napa Cabernet? I actually prefer these wines with a few years on them, but didn’t have the impression that anyone was out there buying them up!

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 11:53:54 AM   
Jenise

 

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From: The Pacific Northest Westest
Status: offline 		And I'm surprised to hear '03 complimented over 02 and 04. '03 was a torrid vintage, super ripe with alcohols off the chart. I steered clear, and would not have been surprised to see Laube say that.

(in reply to KPB)
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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 3:14:01 PM   
PinotPhile

 

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		Interesting. We have had good results w/aging many CA Cabs 10+ years. Not an extensive collection, but most have been from Napa Valley. Vintages 2000-2005. Oakville, Rutherford. Most before I started keeping detailed records. Have not purchased any aged Cabs, though.

More recently, we have been pleased w/Paso Robles Cabs as an alternative to the glam Napa $$$. Tonight, a Fratelli Perata 2003 Cab Sauv, Paso Robles is planned. Looking forward to it with my homemade cuisine.

Big Red Cheers!

(in reply to gregorymboelter)
Post #: 4
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 4:56:34 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		First of all, I've been crowing about certain producers' Cabs from 2003 for years, calling that the single most underrated vintage since the turn of the century.

Second, I'm sure that the 3 "off" vintages in the span he mentions are 1998, 2000, and 2003 because the other 3 in that span were phenomenal for CaliCab. Again, I say that there are some very underrated wines from both '98 and '00.

Lastly, let the critics say how bad 2003 was so I can continue to buy Paul Hobbs To-Kalon for half the price (or less) of their '02.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

Sounds like a fun event, but I’m surprised that Laub was sounding off about wines that are nearly 15 years old. Is there an active market in aged Napa Cabernet? I actually prefer these wines with a few years on them, but didn’t have the impression that anyone was out there buying them up!


Ken, Ken, Ken..... if you've never had a '95, '01, or '02 domestic Cabernet, you're missing the boat. Shafer's Stag's Leap and Arrowood's Reserve Speciale from '95 are stellar. Nearly everything made by a mediocre or better producer in '01 is delicious. I don't think I've ever had an '01 I didn't like. Caymus Special Selection, Corison Kronos and Napa, Togni, Arrowood's Reserve Speciale, Grand Archer, and Monte Rosso, Shafer's Napa and Hillside Select, Dominus, Chateau Montelena..... the list of excellent bottles is endless. And '02 - Lokoya's Diamond Mountain is the single best mountain Cab I've ever bought. If I was using CT back then, I would have given it a 99.

One day soon I'll have to bring an nice aged CaliCab with me if we ever attend the same offline. The good bottles are still wonderful back into the 80's!

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 5:01:34 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I’ve had some great bottles of Harlan and Bryant Family from the 1994 vintage, so I can easily believe you. Honestly, I dropped out of the California market just as the wines really got good, or perhaps was just not cellaring them long enough. I drank a lot of California reds back in Berkeley, in the period around 1980-1982, but back then all the top wines were massive and hard to love, at least on release... I rarely bought the same wine twice...

< Message edited by KPB -- 12/2/2017 5:02:33 PM >

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 5:24:48 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Generally, the better the Bordeaux, the longer it needs to age, and Left Bank is Cabernet based. The same should apply to the higher end domestic Cabs.

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Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/2/2017 5:31:46 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		On a slightly different tack, when I saw the thread title....

quote:

Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages


.... I thought we were going to hear a story about tasting through the highest regarded vintages of Cabernet Sauvignon.

Or, we'd all get a chance to name our 13 favorite vintages of CS, in which case mine would be in rough order:

2001
1995
1987
2003
1993
2002
2014
2009
2012
2013
2007
2005
2010

(based on domestic / US Cabs)

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 8
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/11/2017 1:17:50 PM   
kevin23610

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline 		With the exception of 2011, most California vintages are all pretty good. I rarely hear anyone asking what vintage a Napa cab is from anymore, just what winery its from.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 9
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/11/2017 2:30:15 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		The original purpose of vintage was to show how old the wine is..........

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/11/2017 2:40:04 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		I'm loading up on 2013. I think this is going to turn out as one of the Great Vintages of California based on my experience so far which is limited.

Rick

(in reply to jmcmchi)
Post #: 11
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 4:03:00 AM   
Franklin 10

 

Posts: 1419
Joined: 12/8/2011
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline 		Is this like a word association thread? The title doesn’t match the OP but some interesting thoughts about Napa Cab vintages and how they age.

We had a 1987 Silver Oak CS Alexander Valley from magnum on Saturday. It was terrific and probably in the middle of a broad mature drinking window with the fruit still singing.

I agree with Rick about 2013 Napa and have gone relatively long on some bottles I expect to age well for (what I’m planning to be) the last time.

I had a chance to compare some of the apparently hyped ‘97s to some other 1990s earlier in the year and have to agree with Cran about the ‘95s. That makes me worry (a little) about the ‘07s.

Of course, I’m a believer in the 2010s. I think there’s a balance between ripeness and structure to carry them though they may not match the 2013s in the long run.

Having said that, I haven’t really had disappointment with 2001-2009 in general. Haven’t tried any 2000s. Haven’t gotten much joy out of 2011.

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 2:31:51 PM   
PinotPhile

 

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Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		Just read this somewhat thought-provoking post. My impression has generally been that Old World wines are more subject to variation by vintage. New World less so, but there are clearly better years than others.

https://vinepair.com/articles/86-the-83/

Cab Cheers!

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Post #: 13
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 4:15:08 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I agree that the top wines from 2013 are really good. I sort of came back to Napa wines starting around 2008, and would say that 2010-2013 were all good, and all rather similar in quality too. The wine community seems to look for quick answers, "2013 is best!" but I'm not sure I've seen much evidence of that. The issue centered on subsurface groundwater and questions of how salty it has become: as a drought takes hold, you get shrinking pools of water in some areas, subsurface streams in others. Those pools concentrate minerals -- salt, and also mineral salts (table salt isn't the only kind of salt). So wines can become quite saline, and you definitely saw that by 2015. I think the phenomenon was already emerging by 2013 in some areas of Napa.

2016 was the driest of all, and you definitely have some rather tannic, saline wines with noticeable bitterness that probably won't vanish with aging. You need to judge whether your favorite wines started heading that way in 2013, or later. Most seem to have gotten there by 2016.

2017 should ease up considerably. We all will need to taste wines before buying, due to the risk of issues caused by the fires, but the vines had plenty to drink after that long dry period. I would think that 2018 might even have issues with overproduction and excessive moisture, since these things play out slowly.

Anyhow, this focus on 2013 is fine, as far as it goes. But I think it is very much a wine by wine situation, given the very dry period we're talking about...

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 4:16:15 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		PS: As noted elsewhere, the 2006 wines have stood out for me both back in 2008, and now in some of the late releases, like from Verite's library collection. But you spend a lot of money to buy those wines today!

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 4:28:47 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

My impression has generally been that Old World wines are more subject to variation by vintage. New World less so, but there are clearly better years than others.


I'd somewhat agree with that, and include that the producer makes a big difference in the consistency. I've found that the French seem to just let the vintage play out, particularly with Burgundy, and the Germans seem to make a much more consistent wine every year, especially with Riesling. This probably has something to do with the variety of grape also, where Riesling may be more consistent than Pinot Noir.

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Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to PinotPhile)
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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 4:53:55 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14825
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		I buy from my Calif mailing lists every year, but vintage matters. Vintages have personality, even in a region known for consistency.
Anyone who blind tastes '11 & '12 Burgundy, and announces that vintage doesn't matter, has the palate of a yak.


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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 7:28:11 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		This “ignore vintage” thing: I don’t agree: in Napa, heat and drought yield wines with a very different character than in a cooler year with more rain during the winter months. And you even have to look at the prior year, because the vines remember in various ways that shape the subsequent vintage!

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 7:38:32 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
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From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyDelMar

I'm loading up on 2013. I think this is going to turn out as one of the Great Vintages of California based on my experience so far which is limited.

Rick


I went deep on 2012, bought the same wines in 2013 (although a lesser amount of each because '13 might take 10 - 15 years to come around), and then most of the same wines from the 2014 vintage. '12 is gonna be peaking years before '14, then '13 will follow afterwards. Of all 3 years, I like '14 the best for most of the wines we buy regularly. However, there are a few that got cut because of their '14.

quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

I buy from my Calif mailing lists every year, but vintage matters. Vintages have personality, even in a region known for consistency.
Anyone who blind tastes '11 & '12 Burgundy, and announces that vintage doesn't matter, has the palate of a yak.



The same for California - I've put the same wine, but one bottle from 2011 and one from 2012, next to each other for friends who needed to find out just how much variance is possible from one year to the next.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 19
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/13/2017 11:21:01 PM   
grafstrb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

Interesting. We have had good results w/aging many CA Cabs 10+ years. ...

For my preferences, Cabernet Sauvignon needs at least 10 years of age before it starts getting interesting.

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/14/2017 10:57:13 AM   
PinotPhile

 

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Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

I buy from my Calif mailing lists every year, but vintage matters. Vintages have personality, even in a region known for consistency.
Anyone who blind tastes '11 & '12 Burgundy, and announces that vintage doesn't matter, has the palate of a yak.


And Cran, and Ken:

I am not at the collecting level where I buy from the same vintners year after year. I do, though, have some producers that are so consistently reliable that I have bought their wines multiple times over the last decade or more. Navarro (Mendocino, for PN, Riesling, Gewurz), San Felice for Chianti Classico, Banfi for a few basic Italian reds, Milbrandt for WA reds, Chalone for Pinot Noir + Chenin Blanc + Pinot Blanc, Trimbach for Alsace whites. I did my small equivalent of backing up the truck for a few 2014 vintage CA Pinot Noirs, too.

With the exception of Trimbach and maybe Jadot Beaujolais-Villages, not really enough experience w/France to have reliable producers. I'm OK with that -- removed France from my cellar strategy a few years ago. Dabbled, only that, for Burgs.

There is no substitute for a skilled, caring winemaker. Art and science. VinePair is not a key source for me, and article seems an over-simplification. So only a somewhat agree it gets. Still, interesting as this is winestream media.

< Message edited by PinotPhile -- 12/14/2017 3:53:54 PM >

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RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/15/2017 9:18:21 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb


quote:

ORIGINAL: PinotPhile

Interesting. We have had good results w/aging many CA Cabs 10+ years. ...

For my preferences, Cabernet Sauvignon needs at least 10 years of age before it starts getting interesting.


Not sure I agree with this. For Old World Cabs yes but for the New World Cabs no. I like (Generalizing)! California Cabs at 6-7 years minimum to 10 years max depending. Dunn Howell Mountain needs 10 years plus but Kobalt no. Just had a 2012 Kobalt that blew my mind. For all of you wine guys please try and find this and drink it. It's so damn good. 100% Cab in a New World style. Like Silver Oak Napa on steroids. Honestly, Kobalt is one of the best Cabs on the market. Think Spottswoode but more approachable. I'll put this producer against anybody. Read my CT review on it. CSIMM is a friend of mine and a great taster. Read his reviews of it. Bad monkey too. If you guys are not on Kobalt you are missing out.

Rick

(in reply to grafstrb)
Post #: 22
RE: Top 13 Cabernet Wine Tasting Vintages - 12/16/2017 11:58:36 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I’ll try to find the Kobalt, but from the reviews I suspect it isn’t really my favorite style of cab. I look for a kind of focus in the mid-palate and tend not to be excited by wines that come off as heavy or exotic...

< Message edited by KPB -- 12/16/2017 11:59:07 AM >

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