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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/28/2022 7:41:59 AM   
KPB

 

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Portugal is a fantastic country to visit. My wife and I were there for three weeks right before Covid shut everything down and had a blast. Small enough to visit the whole country in that amount of time and still feel that you saw Porto and Lisbon, and even to visit the southern coast. Tons of sites to visit -- churches, museums, you name it. Fantastic wines and restaurants, and amazing port from "micro producers".

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/28/2022 10:34:14 AM   
bacchus

 

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I have no designated driver to take me home, and my automous driving car is still at the factory. If anyone wants to do a port tasting, we can pick a location near a motel 6.





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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/28/2022 12:15:36 PM   
ClausP

 

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oh, by the way the season opened here in Denmark on tuesday with the first tasting of the season in The Vintage Port Club here in Odense.

A great technical tasting to see if there is any difference between magnums and normal bottles.

A lineup Dow's in 6 vintages: 63, 70, 80, 85, 94 and 03,

The result was a bit unclear but to me at least the two oldest vintages shoved a bit fresher in mag than regular.

To me the wotn was the 70 in mag as both of the 63s seemed in some transitionary phase and the 94s are still quite shut down.


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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2022 7:50:09 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

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Hi Claus,
Thanks for the updates on the Dow. What gave you the impression was shut down? I had a 2000 recently; while it was still showing primary notes, it was very enjoyable over several hours with a decant.

I have to admit that port has been growing on me recently. Contemplating on pulling the trigger on 30- or 40-yr tawnies to enjoy for the holidays.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2022 9:09:07 AM   
ClausP

 

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I think it was mainly that they weren't giving up much on nose or palate without a lot of aeriation in the glass,
maybe I was also a bit biased as Dow normally is slow to develop and the '94 vintage in general also have been quite slow to open up

The 2000 is generally cosidered to be more like the normal "classic" vintages, so not surprising that it is showing ok to good at 22 years.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2022 10:25:14 AM   
KPB

 

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Claus, you have quite a nice club! I have not tried the 03 Dow -- what did you think of it? That is a VP I can still find at low prices here. I love the 03 Taylor and Graham... honestly for VP I have a sweet tooth and the two are just the ultimate in sweet decadent richness.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2022 10:57:17 AM   
ClausP

 

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I thought it was quite good, but maybe a little on the light side given it's age, so maybe not one for the long haul.

It is indeed a very nice club that I was very happy to become a member of back in 09-10 when my wine hobby started to accelerate.
The club has been around since 89 and has been actively bying and storing VPs since then, so tastings are always very good value.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/10/2022 8:44:14 AM   
khmark7

 

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Anyone purchasing the new Port styled wine offering from Rasa??

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/10/2022 8:45:24 AM   
Hollowine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Anyone purchasing the new Port styled wine offering from Rasa??


I plan to get a couple bottles. My neighbors love port and it will help me keep from burning up my VP's when I visit them. Plus I enjoy supporting Pinto and Billo

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/12/2022 5:55:36 AM   
khmark7

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hollowine


quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Anyone purchasing the new Port styled wine offering from Rasa??


I plan to get a couple bottles. My neighbors love port and it will help me keep from burning up my VP's when I visit them. Plus I enjoy supporting Pinto and Billo


Per the website, "the grapes are foot-treaded and punch down". Sounds like a Jackie Chan movie!

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/15/2022 12:57:04 PM   
brettlaurvick

 

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Recently had a 1977 Graham's from magnum. Just not my thing. Not sure if it was decent or over the hill. Felt thin and alcohol stood out to me

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/15/2022 4:48:15 PM   
KPB

 

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Old VP can easily become corked, but hides the TCA way more than a normal bottle. You might not pick it up at all… But it does mute the wine

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/26/2022 3:54:06 PM   
fasteddie35

 

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Merry Christmas All ! Had the 1994 Fonseca last night. It is singin' right now. Decanted about an hour before serving. Lots of gunk in the bottle. But right in the sweet spot !!! Cheers, Ed

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/18/2023 7:27:37 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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It's that time of year again.... the nights are cooler and it gets dark earlier each evening, so I'm declaring the start of Port Season! I'm kicking things off with a bottle of Quinta Das Carvalhas Reserva Tawny.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/19/2023 4:22:23 AM   
khmark7

 

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Realizing that I have very little Porto and I did not do a good job at replenishing stocks after last winter. I do have a few domestic Port styled reds from Michigan etc that are pretty good, but I will have to restock. I'm sure there's an exception clause somewhere in the Moratorium rules

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/19/2023 5:36:19 PM   
wine247365

 

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Just returned from a Portuguese vacation and spent a few days in Pinhao on the Douro River. I'd put the mind-boggling beauty of that area at the top of my list, right next to Napa. Also drove the road north out of Pinhao up the mountain and the views there beat those of Tuscany...truly amazing!

As a port novice, I got exposed to some interesting things and wanted to share them with this group to hear others thoughts.

In no particular order...
1) most ports run about 90-130 mg/L of sugar with the driest of white ports possibly made down in the 40's of sugar mg's/L,
2) they're now making Rose' ports,
3) one Quinta said 25 years ago their production was 90% port and 10% red DOC wine and lately, it's reversed to ~90% red wine and ~10% port as port consumption's declined,
4) if the governing institute over vintages doesn't declare a year to be a vintage year for Douro, a house can declare a vintage year for their wines without disclosing that it's any different than a universally declared one and lastly
5) the 3 greatest universally declared vintages were 2017, 2011, and 1963.

RE #4, for consumers that know less about port this seems a bit unethical in that the consumer might buy it thinking the word "Vintage" has extra significance when it doesn't. I know it moves product, but it's still seems unethical. Thoughts???

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/19/2023 8:09:58 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wine247365

Just returned from a Portuguese vacation and spent a few days in Pinhao on the Douro River.


I just flew in from Portugal, and boy are my arms tired.

ba - dum - tsh!

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/20/2023 5:41:36 AM   
Paul852

 

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FSP today is some Graham's 10 year old tawny, which is going nicely with some roquefort.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/20/2023 4:50:12 PM   
recotte

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

I'm sure there's an exception clause somewhere in the Moratorium rules



Alas, no, but such a good reason to break your streak!

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/20/2023 4:50:52 PM   
recotte

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul852

FSP today is some Graham's 10 year old tawny, which is going nicely with some roquefort.


Nothing to critique about that pairing. Cheers!!!

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/23/2023 12:15:05 AM   
nwinther

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wine247365
RE #4, for consumers that know less about port this seems a bit unethical in that the consumer might buy it thinking the word "Vintage" has extra significance when it doesn't. I know it moves product, but it's still seems unethical. Thoughts???


Unethical? Not sure I'd use such a word, but I'm a sucker for classifications, and IIRC in the old semi-fascist days of Portugal, the IVDP (or its forerunner) had a sort of final say if vintage was Vintage, and usually only two or three vintages pr. decade was Vintage.
Now every year is vintage, if not for the "Grand Vin", then for the second label or the Single Quintas of the same label and it seriously waters down the "specialty" of true Vintage.
Personally, I'd like it more if so many years were Vintage - say three pr. decade. Rest goes into LBV or Tawny.

But today, the difference between a Vintage and an LBV or Crusted can be difficult to distinguish, if at all, once you mix producers.

I know it's in the money and that's why things are changing. But it's a bit like France - if you decide to make wine in Jura, you have to follow these specific rules in regards to grapes etc. - you can't just do whatever. If the world taste is not with this specific type, tough luck. You can't just plant Riesling or Pinot Noir.
And I really love that difference, value-driven approach, even if it doesn't pay.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/23/2023 5:50:56 AM   
KPB

 

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I don’t agree about the greatest vintages. For me 1955 and 1970, then 1977. Since then I’ve been excited about 1994, 2003, 2011 and 2016 but only time will really tell!

I also don’t agree with your criticism of the term “vintage”. A port house can’t use this designation very frequently, so deciding to put it on a label is a major thing. I believe the limit is three times per decade. It isn’t marketing, per se. It genuinely sends us a signal that for this particular producer, this is an exceptionally strong year.

I should add that my experience is mostly focused on Graham, Taylor, Fonseca, Dow, Noval a few others, which is a long list but not remotely as extensive as for professionals who attend port tasting events and have tried thousands of wines (I'm at around 500 bottles of VP consumed total, and in fact 125 of them are just the Graham 1985, which obviously counts as just 1). So very possibly people who taste more broadly end up with a perspective on vintage years that wouldn't apply to someone who is as limited in their focus as me. For my wife and me, it really comes down to what we might enjoy sipping on a cold fall or winter night, and we have never really gone out trying to taste everything or anything like that.

But within these producers we definitely have tasted a lot of vintages, at least back to around 1945. In the end we decided we actually prefer our VP a bit less delicate and shifted deliberately away from ancient stuff -- I don't think I have anything older than 1970 right now, and when we run out of 1970 and 1977, I won't be restocking those even though the two vintages have decades of life remaining. The really old bottles just are very expensive and even though we love them, the bottom line is that they aren't so amazing that it is worth thousands of dollars to buy more!

But this also limits the range of experience I've had with other producers (Warre, for example -- I just don't love their style, but maybe I've never had their best VP at the ideal age).

One remark I'll end on is that if you get into older VPs, buy them in mixed lots at auction. Very few people go to the trouble to see what a mixed lot of VP contains so there can be gems buried in excellent but less renowned parcels -- you might find six Quinta da Noval and one of the six turns out to be Nacionale, for example. Very much worth the effort. And then if you also aim for less famous vintages you often discover genuinely amazing bottles. Port handles heat and other cellaring problems rather well, so even bottles with a little evidence of leakage can be fine (yet will generally be really cheap!). Given that a 50 year old cork is definitely going to be spongy or bone dry, that sequence is very common -- great bottle, some leakage, costs almost nothing, and yet the wine is glorious!

The other comment is that old VP sometimes does become corked. Oddly, something about the way VP is made sort of absorbs or binds most of the TCA, leaving a slightly minty character and maybe slightly muting the wine, but not to a point you wouldn't enjoy it. So the rate of defects in very old bottles is quite low, unless you consider even this to be a massive defect.

< Message edited by KPB -- 10/23/2023 6:48:51 AM >


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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/24/2023 12:58:47 AM   
nwinther

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB
I also don’t agree with your criticism of the term “vintage”. A port house can’t use this designation very frequently, so deciding to put it on a label is a major thing. I believe the limit is three times per decade. It isn’t marketing, per se. It genuinely sends us a signal that for this particular producer, this is an exceptionally strong year.


I don't have a problem with the term "Vintage". I have a problem with producers releasing vintage-years most years (or too many). The original term was indeed to signify something exceptional. Something that happened once or twice pr. decade. But Taylor released four "classic" Vintage-vintages in the 2010's, three Vintage "Vargellas"-vintages two "Vargellas Vinha Velha"-vintages and one "Terra Feita"-vintage.
(2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019).
LBV is released every year.

Point is, that the "exceptional" has become the regular. And while that in and of itself isn't bad, the idea of the "exceptional" is watered down. Add to that, a Vintage Port in produced in any and all years in recent decades from one or other producer. Personally I'd prefer that they put "near-vintage" harvests into (unfiltered) LBV, Crusted or kept it for Colheita/Tawny, to maintain the exclusivity of a true Vintage Port. Now, to me, it's practically just a style of port that may be more expensive but in no way "exceptional".


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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/24/2023 8:22:20 AM   
Tpety

 

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My favorite place to open a Colheita or Fine Tawny is out in the ice fishing shack on the lake when it's sub zero outside and I have no where to go for days. I always start the season with a vintage Champagne and a vintage port to celebrate the season opening.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 10/24/2023 11:09:30 PM   
nwinther

 

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My favourite place is when I open a Colheita or Fine Tawny.

A place of mind, a state of bliss.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 11/12/2023 8:32:10 PM   
khmark7

 

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1st Port styled wine of the season is a red from the Lake Michigan shoreline. Fenn Valley Classic styled Port. It's just what I needed after a crappy day at work.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 11/13/2023 6:34:52 AM   
KPB

 

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We have a 1997 Dow VP open, really in a lovely place right now. In fact the bottle has been open for a few days. It was tight on day one but since then, each time we take a glass it only seems to integrate and improve. Tonight will probably be our last, and best, two glasses from it.

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 11/13/2023 1:58:57 PM   
grafstrb

 

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Anyone holding Graham's 1983 should get into them now! I ran into a singleton at one of my local wine shops this weekend -- immediately snapped it up, remembering how wonderfully it was showing when a friend opened a bottle a couple months ago. Absolutely divine!

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 11/14/2023 3:21:47 AM   
nwinther

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

1st Port styled wine of the season is a red from the Lake Michigan shoreline. Fenn Valley Classic styled Port. It's just what I needed after a crappy day at work.


Wait! You guys have a season for port?

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RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 11/14/2023 5:47:34 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: grafstrb

Anyone holding Graham's 1983 should get into them now! I ran into a singleton at one of my local wine shops this weekend -- immediately snapped it up, remembering how wonderfully it was showing when a friend opened a bottle a couple months ago. Absolutely divine!

Thanks for the tip! Picked up a couple of bottles as an early Christmas present to myself. Lol

Sadly, I don’t have any mature ports left. With limited discretionary funds, I’ve been very selective with purchases.

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