CellarTracker Main Site
Register for Forum | Login | My Profile | Member List | Search

RE: Port Season is officially OPEN!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2023 10:44:18 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
1970 Graham's VP tonight, and it's banging! The sediment would fill a 3 oz. Dixie bathroom cup. Lighter in color than expected, but not lacking in fruit at all. Downright delicious when paired with dark chocolate covered raspberry jellies.

Coined a new word tonight while preparing the bottle.....

rePorting: the act of decanting, filtering, and then pouring Vintage Port back into the bottle.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 151
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2023 11:08:08 PM   
BenG

 

Posts: 841
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

1970 Graham's VP tonight, and it's banging! The sediment would fill a 3 oz. Dixie bathroom cup. Lighter in color than expected, but not lacking in fruit at all. Downright delicious when paired with dark chocolate covered raspberry jellies.

Coined a new word tonight while preparing the bottle.....

rePorting: the act of decanting, filtering, and then pouring Vintage Port back into the bottle.


Thanks for the report. I've noticed that Warre's LBV 2009 has an amazing amount of sediment for a 14 year old. I'll have to get out a Dixie cup next time to measure it.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 152
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/6/2023 11:38:18 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenG

I've noticed that Warre's LBV 2009 has an amazing amount of sediment for a 14 year old.



Warre's makes my favorite LBV Port - 2003. There's still a case of it somewhere in the cellar. I really have to get down there and look at what I have, particularly in Port and Italian.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to BenG)
Post #: 153
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 4:32:50 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11412
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

1970 Graham's VP tonight, and it's banging! The sediment would fill a 3 oz. Dixie bathroom cup. Lighter in color than expected, but not lacking in fruit at all. Downright delicious when paired with dark chocolate covered raspberry jellies.

Coined a new word tonight while preparing the bottle.....

rePorting: the act of decanting, filtering, and then pouring Vintage Port back into the bottle.


Wouldn't that be reDocking the Port??

I have a question. If you wanted to try VP but don't want to wait 40 years, what is the EARLY drinking window for these illustrious wines?

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to CranBurgundy)
Post #: 154
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 6:19:57 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
@khmark, this is a tricky question to answer because many VPs actually are super delicious to drink young, although they won't show any of their mature nuance. So in some sense there is an early drinking window for producers like Taylor and Fonseca and Graham, and then a later one.

If I focus on Graham, where I've consumed something like 120 bottles of the 1985 VP -- an amazing VP -- it seems to me that it first start to come across as a reasonably mature wine quite a long time ago (in the winter we often have a VP open on the counter... and we get lots of winter in Ithaca. So it is not unusual to go through a bottle per week, and we probably drink a total of 10 or 12 per year... maybe 1/3 of those are this specific vintage and VP because we invariably enjoy them and they are often sold at fire-sale prices).

So, that VP is roughly 40 years old, yet I've managed to follow it starting no later than around 1995, age 10. Back then it was sweet and simple although already a nice sweet wine to pair with chocolate desserts. It shed its baby fat pretty quickly: By age 20 it was delicious and, more to the point, already showing some spice on the nose and the more complex flavors that come with age. At this point, I see it as being on its mature plateau and I bet that at age 55 or 60 it will be a tiny bit in decline, relative to all those other data points. Right now it still seems quite lively and healthy, so nowhere near decline.

I was born in 1955 and as it happens, that was a good year for VP. So I've also had a bunch of VPs from that vintage. What you notice is that this aging curve is pretty constant across the top producers. Today, a 1970 VP would be seeming fully mature and a tiny bit fragile, maybe a little amber around the rim. A 1965 VP would probably be noticeably slipping: pale in color, more than a hint of caramel, and less complex. The 1955 VPs are less exciting to me these days: I really enjoyed them 10 or 15 years ago, but no longer am interested in spending a fortune on something so fragile and somehow, so one-dimensional (if you think of VP as one-dimensional on release, a story entirely about sweet fruit juice and brandy, almost a cocktail.... the multidimensional story surfaces by age 20-25 and is very evident at age 40, but fading again by age 50 -- and sooner for a less prestigious VP -- and then basically you are back to a one-dimensional story eventually, that can be very pretty, yet is also very limited in some respects. And keep in mind that I'm focused on the very best producers. The story for some random minor producer would be harder to predict: some hold incredibly well... some just don't. And I'm focused on pristine bottles, whereas with age, more and more will be slightly corked or show other slight defects).

So I would go for a 20 or 25 year old bottle. Try to buy at auction and bid quite low -- the demand is absurdly small for these things, so low bids can actually succeed. Personally I might focus on Taylor, Graham, Fonseca and Dow, but you could also go after Noval. (I myself don't like the Warre style; many do and if you turn out to be a fan, them too).

If you bid on weird never-heard-of 25 year old VPs, you could probably find a bottle for $45, not counting any buyer's fee or shipping. If you go for 6, it might drop to maybe $40/bottle. And honestly, it would not be impossible to succeed in buying six of one of the heavy hitters for that price, too, if the vintage you aim for isn't one of the most famous.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 155
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 6:28:59 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
Oh, and by the way, a corked VP is usually a very drinkable bottle. You smell the TCA on the cork itself and perhaps even the paper label. It might reek of the stuff, to be honest -- a level where any bordeaux would be totally shot.

So you use your ah-so combined with your screwpull or waiter's corkscrew, or Durand (I always use those by now, but you can approximate the Durand with a normal corkscrew and a normal ah-so). Gently ease this crumbling cork out, and the whole kitchen now stinks of TCA.

Take a paper towel, moisten, and gently swab the inner neck of the bottle and the top rim. If cork fell in, immediately decant (no splashing) through a fine strainer like a tea filter, then wash the bottle with water (shake well to dislodge sediment!), let it drip dry for a few seconds, and gently strain back into the bottle.

The TCA character will be surprisingly muted and may manifest mostly as a slightly minty aroma on the VP. Compared with one that isn't corked, you would notice that the fruit is a tiny bit inhibited too. But unless the TCA went nuts in the bottle itself, which is a rare thing (usually it stays in the cork), or you neglected to clean the neck of the bottle (the TCA can have a very strong residue there), the actual fungal reek will often be hard to notice unless you look for it. Air can help too: on day one the TCA could be evident... on day two, sometimes much less so.

This said, I do dump out perhaps one bottle in 20 or 25 due to TCA that is at such a high level that the VP is not drinkable.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 156
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 8:24:39 AM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

If you wanted to try VP but don't want to wait 40 years, what is the EARLY drinking window for these illustrious wines?


The only issue you'll have drinking VP young is with the tannin. There are people that tannin REALLY affects, and others that it doesn't bother at all. If you can drink young Cab without being bothered by the drying sensation, you probably could drink young VP at any age.

....or, you could PM your Port Concierge and see if he'd part with a 2003 Warre's LBV or 2007 Taylor Fladgate LBV Port. It all depends on whatcha got to swap.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 157
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 10:42:33 AM   
BenG

 

Posts: 841
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline
Good information. Thanks Ken.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 158
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/7/2023 12:48:40 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
Some young VPs are very tannic; those are definitely not what I would call this "new" style. But VPs like the Taylor 2016, 2011 and 2003, or Fonseca 2011 (or 1994, if you tried that young), or almost any Grahams VP -- they are rather sweet and lush on release. Soft tannins that add to that lushness without having a dry "underripe persimmon" character. Closer to Amarone, really, but without a raisin character.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to BenG)
Post #: 159
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/14/2023 6:56:11 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
Another glass of 1970 Graham's, but this time with chocolate covered pretzels. It's not bad per se, but the salt isn't meshing as well as I had hoped. Guess I'm buying some more chocolate covered raspberry jellies tomorrow.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 160
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 12/15/2023 4:08:26 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11412
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

Oh, and by the way, a corked VP is usually a very drinkable bottle. You smell the TCA on the cork itself and perhaps even the paper label. It might reek of the stuff, to be honest -- a level where any bordeaux would be totally shot.

So you use your ah-so combined with your screwpull or waiter's corkscrew, or Durand (I always use those by now, but you can approximate the Durand with a normal corkscrew and a normal ah-so). Gently ease this crumbling cork out, and the whole kitchen now stinks of TCA.

Take a paper towel, moisten, and gently swab the inner neck of the bottle and the top rim. If cork fell in, immediately decant (no splashing) through a fine strainer like a tea filter, then wash the bottle with water (shake well to dislodge sediment!), let it drip dry for a few seconds, and gently strain back into the bottle.

The TCA character will be surprisingly muted and may manifest mostly as a slightly minty aroma on the VP. Compared with one that isn't corked, you would notice that the fruit is a tiny bit inhibited too. But unless the TCA went nuts in the bottle itself, which is a rare thing (usually it stays in the cork), or you neglected to clean the neck of the bottle (the TCA can have a very strong residue there), the actual fungal reek will often be hard to notice unless you look for it. Air can help too: on day one the TCA could be evident... on day two, sometimes much less so.

This said, I do dump out perhaps one bottle in 20 or 25 due to TCA that is at such a high level that the VP is not drinkable.


I will try this next time, heck i have plenty of spare bottles to use since I make my own wine. Thanks.

My bottle of Fonseca bin 27 was probably the most corked bottle I've opened in the last few years so it went down the drain.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 161
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 1/15/2024 12:10:53 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3594
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
Bump.

2000 Fonseca VP with bacon-butternut squash risotto. Great pairing. Not sure it will work with a much older port or a very young one. Fonseca was just at the right stage.

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 162
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 1/15/2024 1:51:23 PM   
wadcorp

 

Posts: 9330
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
Just finished off a Graham's 10-Year Tawny.

First victim of port season…

.

_____________________________

"Wine is light held together by moisture."
— Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 163
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 1/15/2024 6:27:38 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
Looking forward to the mixed case of white ports I ordered from Roy Hersh’s FLOP sale. He has excellent taste… I bet these will be very interesting.

< Message edited by KPB -- 1/15/2024 6:28:01 PM >


_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to wadcorp)
Post #: 164
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 2/22/2024 5:10:53 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11412
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline
As Port season is winding down.....opened an Australian NV Tawny from Buller. Soft, fruity and boozy....will probably sip on this for a few weeks.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 165
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 2/22/2024 5:22:30 PM   
recotte

 

Posts: 6866
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline
In the depths of a SoCal winter earlier this week (it was in the '50's and raining), I opened a 375ml of 1977 Dow's VP. Fantastic with homemade molten lava cake.

_____________________________

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 166
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 2/23/2024 7:39:33 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4649
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
I remember how impressed I was with the 1977 Dow during a year we spent in Paris in 1995-1996. Amazing how these VPs just hang in there and even improve, decade after decade!

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to recotte)
Post #: 167
RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! - 2/24/2024 8:35:42 PM   
BenG

 

Posts: 841
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline
Bought quite a few bottles of Warres LBV 2009 (probably mentioned before). Previous bottles had huge amounts of sediment. Fourth night of opening and it is drinking magnificently.

Edit: I did mention it before. It's starting to take effect.

< Message edited by BenG -- 2/24/2024 8:36:46 PM >

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 168
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> RE: Port Season is officially OPEN! Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.094