RE: Which wines are not for everybody ?

CellarTracker Main Site

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> RE: Which wines are not for everybody ?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/18/2024 11:24:05 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

There is a lot of interest in Australia, and vines have been imported but are still in quarantine. (I thought there were already one or two producers, but this was my mistake. Apparently Chalmers Nursery have been trying to import it for over a decade, but faced issues finding virus-free stock). UC Davis seem to be in the process of registering it and starting to propagate it for production in the US. It's likely it will cope better with increasingly warmer and drier conditions than either Pinot noir or Nebbiolo, and thus might get increasing levels of interest from producers outside Italy.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It'll be interesting to see where it successfully makes good wine...

Yes, will be interesting to see. There are some regions in Australia with basaltic soil that may suit it, and of course we'll likely see it planted on radically different soils to those found on Etna too. Either way, it hopefully should lead to some distinctive wines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte
and whether anyone is brave enough to plant a new vineyard on an active volcano elsewhere in the world.

That sounds like a challenge -- I hope someone takes it up

Maybe someone in NZ or South America might be willing to try?

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 31

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/18/2024 12:48:15 PM

ChrisinCowiche

Posts: 7853
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline

Many of the pacific rim volcanos are technically active, even if not spewing lava constantly. The ones near me have foothills, ancient flows, etc... that are indeed planted, but the slopes of main volcanoes themselves in WA are too cold. Some in OR/CA Shasta/Lassen? maybe. HI for sure, but don't if folks have tried.

_____________________________

http://www.cellartracker.com/new/user.asp?iUserOverride=102173

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 32

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/18/2024 1:48:58 PM

BornToRhone

Posts: 3131
Joined: 2/14/2012
From: The Big D, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone
I'll add another wine which I have only tried once, so there may be better ones out there.

Torrentes.

To me, it tasted like a fancy bathroom liquid hand soap, kinda flowery and soapy. Echh!

Them’s fighting words

Oops! For my health I guess I better try a different Torrentes, then!

_____________________________

-- The answer may not lie at the bottom of a bottle of wine, but you should at least check. --

(in reply to jmcmchi)

Post #: 33

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/18/2024 1:53:59 PM

bretrooks

Posts: 2871
Joined: 9/27/2009
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline

The team behind Rhys are/will be experimenting with Nerello Mascalese at a site in Sonoma (as well as Nerello Capuccio, Carricante, and Nebbiolo). I haven't followed the project, but I'm all for it.

https://www.aeriswines.com/california/

_____________________________

WSET L3 in Wines
My Cellar

(in reply to BornToRhone)

Post #: 34

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/18/2024 4:12:54 PM

jmcmchi

Posts: 3222
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmcmchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone
I'll add another wine which I have only tried once, so there may be better ones out there.

Torrentes.

To me, it tasted like a fancy bathroom liquid hand soap, kinda flowery and soapy. Echh!

Them’s fighting words

Oops! For my health I guess I better try a different Torrentes, then!

Piles of good Argentinian stuff

(in reply to BornToRhone)

Post #: 35

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 1:49:29 AM

Sir LaL

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/23/2018
Status: offline

Some specific wines that I have found very divisive at tastings are Bressan (from Venezia Giulia) and his versions of Pinot Noir (Pinot Nero) and Schioppetino. They are some of the most distinct wines stylewise that I have tried. Lovers of Burgundian and/or Californian pinots are in for an experience with Bressans version of the grape. I am a great fan of the wines, but it is not for everybody.

Mollyddoker is very divisive stylewise as well but for different reasons.

Müller Catoirs version of Muscateller is in my experience also very divisive but I think it has more to do with the grape and not the style. Because there seems to be different reactions when it is served blind versus served open. People seem to be more positive when it is served blind.

I don´t know about the availability of the mentioned wines outside Europe - however Mollydooker should be widely available.

Best regards
Lars Lundgaard

(in reply to jmcmchi)

Post #: 36

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 3:39:31 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone
I'll add another wine which I have only tried once, so there may be better ones out there.

Torrentes.

To me, it tasted like a fancy bathroom liquid hand soap, kinda flowery and soapy. Echh!

He shall drink of the brook... De torrente in via bibet (Handel)

What you write isn't the name of a grape, but there are a number of grapes of similar name to that. And indeed it is a particularly difficult area with quite a lot of grape varieties sharing the same and slightly different names, Torrontés, Torontel, and Terrantez being the most common. So its a bit hard to guess what you might have had.

Others seem to think you the Argentinean variety Torrontés, which is in fact 3 distinct but closely related varieties, which have longer names to distinguish them. If it was Argentinean, I think you have been unlucky, because I have had some very delicious Torrontés - not sophisticated but enjoyable. And not at all soapy, but certainly aromatic, similar to Albarino. Bodegas Etchart in Cafayate is an excellent producer. But cheaper, nastier ones came out of the woodwork once the good ones got their reputation.

Then Torrontés is grown in Galicia, but that is something else, and is sometimes called Torontel to distinguish it. Chilean Torrontés/Torontel may well include both the Argentinean and Galician. Then something with that name, also sometimes referred to as Terrantez, is found in more southerly parts of Spain, the Canaries and Madeira. Whilst generally identified with the Galician, given the large difference in climate I'm suspicious. And Terrantez is also found in the Azores, but I'm reasonably sure that is something else again.

I hadn't been talking about whites, because Eduardo doesn't drink them. But clearly there are a lot of challenging white varieties.

Rhone whites are notable. Marsanne can be rather gluey, and I mostly avoid wines with very much of it for this reason. And Roussanne often tends to taste a bit sherried after a small number of years in bottle, once the florality of youth has passed - the polite term is nutty - sometimes misleading people into thinking it has become prematurely oxidised. But it does tend to regain its balance after some more years. So drink early or late with Roussanne-dominated wines. Some Portuguese white wine varieties, especially from Alentejo, have a similar trick.

Dry rieslings, especially from Australia, can be very acidic. I do love riesling, but when they are very dry, I find the acid too much until they have had a long time in bottle. I have some Aussie dry rieslings I am keeping until they are into their teens, to hope they will tone down that acid and let me enjoy the bit I like.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to BornToRhone)

Post #: 37

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 4:30:55 AM

eyewino

Posts: 370
Joined: 8/29/2018
From: Northern Iowa
Status: offline

I'll play and add a more obscure variety:

Lacrima - often seen as Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Extremely floral with strawberry and vanilla notes, medium bodied, low tannins. One glass is fun for me. A full bottle...challenging. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought a magnum of it a couple of years ago.

_____________________________

-Don

In Vino Veritas

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 38

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 7:55:56 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretrooks

The team behind Rhys are/will be experimenting with Nerello Mascalese at a site in Sonoma (as well as Nerello Capuccio, Carricante, and Nebbiolo). I haven't followed the project, but I'm all for it.

https://www.aeriswines.com/california/

Sounds like an interesting project -- thanks! It'd be interesting to try their wines, if/when they become available.

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to bretrooks)

Post #: 39

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 7:59:01 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
Rhone whites are notable. Marsanne can be rather gluey, and I mostly avoid wines with very much of it for this reason. And Roussanne often tends to taste a bit sherried after a small number of years in bottle, once the florality of youth has passed - the polite term is nutty - sometimes misleading people into thinking it has become prematurely oxidised. But it does tend to regain its balance after some more years. So drink early or late with Roussanne-dominated wines. Some Portuguese white wine varieties, especially from Alentejo, have a similar trick.

I guess it highlights how divisive they can be, but both Rhône white wines and oxidative white wines are styles that I appreciate and look out for.

I've not really had any Marsanne I'd describe as gluey, though that could be luck on my part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
Dry rieslings, especially from Australia, can be very acidic. I do love riesling, but when they are very dry, I find the acid too much until they have had a long time in bottle. I have some Aussie dry rieslings I am keeping until they are into their teens, to hope they will tone down that acid and let me enjoy the bit I like.

Yes, much as I enjoy Australian rieslings, some do push the acidity and austerity a fraction too much, even for me. I've not had the chance to try many with bottle age, but it'd be interesting -- I'd guess they'd improve

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 40

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 8:06:25 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyewino
I'll play and add a more obscure variety:

Lacrima - often seen as Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Extremely floral with strawberry and vanilla notes, medium bodied, low tannins. One glass is fun for me. A full bottle...challenging. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought a magnum of it a couple of years ago.

Interesting -- not one I'd heard of.

I thought initially I might have tried it, but I've tried a Lacryma Christi del Vesuvio. The spelling here is critical -- it's a completely different wine that's a blend of Piedirosso and/or Sciascinoso with Aglianico

.

Always fun when two very different wines have near-identical names

< Message edited by penguinoid -- 1/19/2024 8:09:54 AM >

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to eyewino)

Post #: 41

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 9:14:26 AM

jmcmchi

Posts: 3222
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
Dry rieslings, especially from Australia, can be very acidic. I do love riesling, but when they are very dry, I find the acid too much until they have had a long time in bottle. I have some Aussie dry rieslings I am keeping until they are into their teens, to hope they will tone down that acid and let me enjoy the bit I like.

Yes, much as I enjoy Australian rieslings, some do push the acidity and austerity a fraction too much, even for me. I've not had the chance to try many with bottle age, but it'd be interesting -- I'd guess they'd improve

It can be challenging to get the timing right but Clare rieslings around 10 years can be exquisite

A similar experiment in NZ - 2005 Framingham Dry Riesling - is a good example of undrinkable young, beautiful at 10

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 42

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 12:08:23 PM

KPB

Posts: 4661
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyewino

I'll play and add a more obscure variety:

Lacrima - often seen as Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Extremely floral with strawberry and vanilla notes, medium bodied, low tannins. One glass is fun for me. A full bottle...challenging. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought a magnum of it a couple of years ago.

Agreed! But there is an exception to that rule: there is a white variant that grows on the slopes of Mt Vesuvius and produces a wine called Lacrima Christo. When vacationing south of Naples many years ago in Vico Equense our hotel had a restaurant right on the bay, the volcano off in the distance, and fishermen would pass in boats from time to time hunting for octopus. Behind us, the steep trail to the local abbey. And they would pour Lacrima Christo white with these amazing seafood preparations. OMG. If only I could travel back in time and experience that again...

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to eyewino)

Post #: 43

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 2:21:18 PM

BobMilton

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: offline

I look at the title of this thread and think the answer is obvious - all wines are not for everybody. Would anyone here drink barefoot cellars? So any wine you name has at least one person who does not care for it.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 44

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/19/2024 10:37:34 PM

recotte

Posts: 6874
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretrooks

The team behind Rhys are/will be experimenting with Nerello Mascalese at a site in Sonoma (as well as Nerello Capuccio, Carricante, and Nebbiolo). I haven't followed the project, but I'm all for it.

https://www.aeriswines.com/california/

Sounds like an interesting project -- thanks! It'd be interesting to try their wines, if/when they become available.

Based on CT, it looks like they’ve released two vintages, 2018 & 2019. I signed up for their mailing list. I’ll be interested to see what they offer and their pricing.

_____________________________

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 45

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 3:53:11 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: penguinoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyewino
I'll play and add a more obscure variety:

Lacrima - often seen as Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Extremely floral with strawberry and vanilla notes, medium bodied, low tannins. One glass is fun for me. A full bottle...challenging. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought a magnum of it a couple of years ago.

Always fun when two very different wines have near-identical names

The first time I had Lacrima di Morro d'Alba - someone else chose it in a restaurant - I assumed it was from Alba, and so yet another of the many obscure minor grapes of Piemonte. I knew well that one of the five Barolo villages is called La Morra, which made it really look like that, though I did wonder why it was now Morro rather than Morra. Of course, when I looked it up, I found Morro d'Alba is a village near Ancona in Marche, half way down the eastern side of Italy, and the grape is pretty much only found around that village.

That first one I had was quite expensive, and very delicious. But it has turned up in British supermarkets recently at rather lower prices. My father recently arrived with a supermarket own-label bottle at a worryingly modest price. He said he'd had a few bottles and he liked it. Makes me worry his palate is finally going, as I thought it was horrible. After a glass, I opened something else, and told him to take the remainder of the bottle away when he left, as I didn't need any cooking wine that week.

But as we know well, cheap versions of even the most noble varieties are often filthy. Pinot Noir most especially. In fact pinot noir is a signal case of "not for everybody", even when it's good. I remember once turning up at an office bring-and-share wine-tasting event with a really rather nice Californian pinot noir, and found that most people hated it.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 46

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 4:11:07 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton
I look at the title of this thread and think the answer is obvious - all wines are not for everybody. Would anyone here drink barefoot cellars? So any wine you name has at least one person who does not care for it.

When Barefoot launched in Britain, some time in the 90s iirc, they put really good stuff in the bottles, and won some Gold Medal awards at European wine shows. I bought every bottle I could find of the first edition of Barefoot Merlot as bottled for the British market. It was hard to find, as there wasn't much of it about. Of course, it was being sold at a loss, so they didn't bring very much of it. Then when it reappeared a few months later, it was a faint shadow of the original, and I never bought it again. I knew that they'd done that good old put-good-stuff-in-the-bottles-to-start-with-get-good-reviews trick that many mass market branded wines try when they launch here. Gallo did it. Jacobs Creek (an Australian downmarket brand) did it. Etc.

But you should be aware that they do have distinct market-specific bottlings of these things. What you get in your Barefoot bottle in California is not necessarily the same thing as I get here in Britain. It isn't impossible that in Britain it is positioned a bit more upmarket than in California. Many international brands have different market positioning in different national markets.

One of my neighbours drinks little else but Barefoot Malbec. (I'm not really aware of Malbec being much grown in California, so I was a bit surprised.) Knowing that normally I would never touch a wine that cheap, she nevertheless brought some along one day to see what I think. As I said to her, I could understand why people like it. And if there was nothing else at someone's barbecue or whatever, I would drink it. It's not horrible, not at all. It's pleasant, unchallenging, has a bit of concentration. But from the point of view of those of us who like proper wine, it is exceedingly uninteresting. Prosecco is a huge seller in Britain these days, and I can describe that in similar terms. It's what the mass-market drinks and wants, something pleasant, simple and unchallenging. That wine was perfectly excellently constructed for the mass market. See my signature text.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 47

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 7:35:52 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyewino

I'll play and add a more obscure variety:

Lacrima - often seen as Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Extremely floral with strawberry and vanilla notes, medium bodied, low tannins. One glass is fun for me. A full bottle...challenging. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought a magnum of it a couple of years ago.

Agreed! But there is an exception to that rule: there is a white variant that grows on the slopes of Mt Vesuvius and produces a wine called Lacrima Christo. When vacationing south of Naples many years ago in Vico Equense our hotel had a restaurant right on the bay, the volcano off in the distance, and fishermen would pass in boats from time to time hunting for octopus. Behind us, the steep trail to the local abbey. And they would pour Lacrima Christo white with these amazing seafood preparations. OMG. If only I could travel back in time and experience that again...

Yes, that's the same as the Lacryma Christi del Vesuvio I mentioned earlier. Both red and white wines are produced, but it's different grapes to Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. Lacrima di Morro d'Alba is from the Lacrima grape, while Lacryma Christi del Vesuvio is a blend of a number of different grapes (not including Lacrima).

It's like Vino Nobile di Montepulciano vs. Montepulciano d'Abruzzo again ....

< Message edited by penguinoid -- 1/20/2024 7:36:22 AM >

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 48

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 7:40:09 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
But you should be aware that they do have distinct market-specific bottlings of these things. What you get in your Barefoot bottle in California is not necessarily the same thing as I get here in Britain. It isn't impossible that in Britain it is positioned a bit more upmarket than in California. Many international brands have different market positioning in different national markets.

The same is true for Yellowtail, too. I gather the versions made for the US market has more residual sugar than the version for the Australian market, for example.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
One of my neighbours drinks little else but Barefoot Malbec. (I'm not really aware of Malbec being much grown in California, so I was a bit surprised.) Knowing that normally I would never touch a wine that cheap, she nevertheless brought some along one day to see what I think. As I said to her, I could understand why people like it. And if there was nothing else at someone's barbecue or whatever, I would drink it. It's not horrible, not at all. It's pleasant, unchallenging, has a bit of concentration. But from the point of view of those of us who like proper wine, it is exceedingly uninteresting. Prosecco is a huge seller in Britain these days, and I can describe that in similar terms. It's what the mass-market drinks and wants, something pleasant, simple and unchallenging. That wine was perfectly excellently constructed for the mass market. See my signature text.

I once tried the (Australian market) Yellowtail Merlot as part of a blind tasting at uni. There were some decent Merlot and Merlot blend wines in the lineup, including a couple from Bordeaux. It honestly wasn't awful -- quite plush and fruity. Perfectly acceptable given the price, even if there are other wines I'd prefer overall. As you say, perfectly constructed for its target market.

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 49

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 10:42:17 AM

BobMilton

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton
I look at the title of this thread and think the answer is obvious - all wines are not for everybody. Would anyone here drink barefoot cellars? So any wine you name has at least one person who does not care for it.

When Barefoot launched in Britain, some time in the 90s iirc, they put really good stuff in the bottles, and won some Gold Medal awards at European wine shows. I bought every bottle I could find of the first edition of Barefoot Merlot as bottled for the British market. It was hard to find, as there wasn't much of it about. Of course, it was being sold at a loss, so they didn't bring very much of it. Then when it reappeared a few months later, it was a faint shadow of the original, and I never bought it again. I knew that they'd done that good old put-good-stuff-in-the-bottles-to-start-with-get-good-reviews trick that many mass market branded wines try when they launch here. Gallo did it. Jacobs Creek (an Australian downmarket brand) did it. Etc.

But you should be aware that they do have distinct market-specific bottlings of these things. What you get in your Barefoot bottle in California is not necessarily the same thing as I get here in Britain. It isn't impossible that in Britain it is positioned a bit more upmarket than in California. Many international brands have different market positioning in different national markets.

One of my neighbours drinks little else but Barefoot Malbec. (I'm not really aware of Malbec being much grown in California, so I was a bit surprised.) Knowing that normally I would never touch a wine that cheap, she nevertheless brought some along one day to see what I think. As I said to her, I could understand why people like it. And if there was nothing else at someone's barbecue or whatever, I would drink it. It's not horrible, not at all. It's pleasant, unchallenging, has a bit of concentration. But from the point of view of those of us who like proper wine, it is exceedingly uninteresting. Prosecco is a huge seller in Britain these days, and I can describe that in similar terms. It's what the mass-market drinks and wants, something pleasant, simple and unchallenging. That wine was perfectly excellently constructed for the mass market. See my signature text.

I wasn't aware Barefoot was sold outside the US. As to different wines for different regions, given the amounts they produce, they all can't be the same batch so that doesn't surprise me.
As to malbec in California - most grapes in California are grown in the central valley. So if malbec is cheap and easy to grow, they will grow it.
And I've had a couple of barefoot wines that were decent enough.

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 50

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 11:55:07 AM

ericindc

Posts: 2084
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: District of Columbia
Status: offline

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Cabernet Franc, specifically from the Loire. I do alot of tasting at work and those green notes are really problematic. Both for normies and "wine people". New world Cab francs normies seem to like.

But the biggest issue for most non wine-nerds is the perception of sweetness in white wines. It happens over and over again. Any wines, even when dry, have a sweet note on the nose or sweet fruit (but no RS), are dismissed as "sweet wines" and never tried again.

Thats even a similar problem at our tastings, where people refuse to drink the off dry or sweeter wines because they state that it interferes with their ability to go back and taste the dry reds. sigh.

< Message edited by ericindc -- 1/20/2024 11:57:25 AM >

_____________________________

-Eric
Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 51

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 11:58:43 AM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3802
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline

Surprised nobody has mentioned……Caymus.

_____________________________

La felicità, come un vino pregiato, dev’essere assaporata sorso a sorso.

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 52

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 12:11:18 PM

recotte

Posts: 6874
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericindc

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Cabernet Franc, specifically from the Loire. I do alot of tasting at work and those green notes are really problematic. Both for normies and "wine people". New world Cab francs normies seem to like.

But the biggest issue for most non wine-nerds is the perception of sweetness in white wines. It happens over and over again. Any wines, even when dry, have a sweet note on the nose or sweet fruit (but no RS), are dismissed as "sweet wines" and never tried again.

Thats even a similar problem at our tastings, where people refuse to drink the off dry or sweeter wines because they state that it interferes with their ability to go back and taste the dry reds. sigh.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard, "I don't like sweet wines." Folks who refuse to even taste Riesling because they had some cheap version once upon a time that was just sweet with nothing else going on, and so they've categorically dismissed the variety, not willing to consider that well made Rieslings are about acidity and balance, not just "sweet." Similar story with Sauternes or Port.

< Message edited by recotte -- 1/20/2024 12:14:30 PM >

_____________________________

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to ericindc)

Post #: 53

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/20/2024 1:52:26 PM

KPB

Posts: 4661
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

+1 on underripe Cabernet Franc (from anywhere)

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 54

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 5:00:16 AM

fanglangzhe

Posts: 375
Status: offline

There is NO wine that is for everybody. There is NOT a single wine in the world that every single person who drinks wine in the world will like.

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 55

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 6:57:22 AM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1569
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

Surprised nobody has mentioned……Caymus.

Actually Caymus might be the most looked out wine for casual drinkers, non aficionados , or to simply put just easy customers. We can all bash Caymus but I guarantee many of us when we started drinking wine liked Caymus and then we disliked it down the road. It is very easy to like Caymus specially for Americans that have much more crave of sweet flavors than Europeans. I praise Caymus for being incredibly good for giving their target consumer what they want : a sweet wine. Go ahead and in a big convention, wedding, reunion, etc put in a table Caymus, Musar, Bionic Frog, Haut Brion, Canon, and whatever else you want and let people ( not wine nerd, but the avarage Joe that drinks Bud and Corona) decide which wines are finished first. For me there is no doubt the Caymus would go first. For most the only thing that matters in a wine is to be delicious regardless of structure or multiple descriptors. Caymus is the Toyota Corolla of wine.

_____________________________

I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

(in reply to WineGuyCO)

Post #: 56

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 9:46:18 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1062
Joined: 1/10/2013
From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericindc

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Cabernet Franc, specifically from the Loire. I do alot of tasting at work and those green notes are really problematic. Both for normies and "wine people". New world Cab francs normies seem to like.

But the biggest issue for most non wine-nerds is the perception of sweetness in white wines. It happens over and over again. Any wines, even when dry, have a sweet note on the nose or sweet fruit (but no RS), are dismissed as "sweet wines" and never tried again.

Thats even a similar problem at our tastings, where people refuse to drink the off dry or sweeter wines because they state that it interferes with their ability to go back and taste the dry reds. sigh.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard, "I don't like sweet wines." Folks who refuse to even taste Riesling because they had some cheap version once upon a time that was just sweet with nothing else going on, and so they've categorically dismissed the variety, not willing to consider that well made Rieslings are about acidity and balance, not just "sweet." Similar story with Sauternes or Port.

Yes, I've heard this a lot, including about Riesling

. I've also met people who will only drink sweet wine.

_____________________________

Probably not a penguin

https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=167981

https://www.instagram.com/penguinoid/
https://blog.wodewose.org/

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 57

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 3:39:57 PM

KPB

Posts: 4661
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

Honestly, a lot of Riesling is sweet. Around here (Fingerlakes) even the dry ones often trend sweeter over time. Forge, though, is dry.

But is this on topic? When I mentioned a white varietal, I thought you chided me and said Eduardo doesn’t drink white wines?

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 58

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 6:56:38 PM

ericindc

Posts: 2084
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: District of Columbia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

Surprised nobody has mentioned……Caymus.

Actually Caymus might be the most looked out wine for casual drinkers, non aficionados , or to simply put just easy customers. We can all bash Caymus but I guarantee many of us when we started drinking wine liked Caymus and then we disliked it down the road. It is very easy to like Caymus specially for Americans that have much more crave of sweet flavors than Europeans. I praise Caymus for being incredibly good for giving their target consumer what they want : a sweet wine. Go ahead and in a big convention, wedding, reunion, etc put in a table Caymus, Musar, Bionic Frog, Haut Brion, Canon, and whatever else you want and let people ( not wine nerd, but the avarage Joe that drinks Bud and Corona) decide which wines are finished first. For me there is no doubt the Caymus would go first. For most the only thing that matters in a wine is to be delicious regardless of structure or multiple descriptors. Caymus is the Toyota Corolla of wine.

Its interesting, I've tried to tell my co-workers that these big fruity wines they are buying from the supermarket (e.g. menage, apothic, etc) have a ton of residual sugar in them. But because its more hidden, they dont believe me. But I try to get them to drink a totally dry white that has a perception of fruit, and they freak out. They seem to only like chardonnay, pinot gris, and weirdly enough vinho verde still whites.

_____________________________

-Eric
Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 59

RE: Which wines are not for everybody ? - 1/21/2024 8:30:59 PM

fanglangzhe

Posts: 375
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte
I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard, "I don't like sweet wines." Folks who refuse to even taste Riesling because they had some cheap version once upon a time that was just sweet with nothing else going on, and so they've categorically dismissed the variety, not willing to consider that well made Rieslings are about acidity and balance, not just "sweet." Similar story with Sauternes or Port.

I prefer bone-dry rieslings myself but know lots of people who dislike them & prefer the sweet ones. Just saying once again, there is NO single one for everybody.

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 60