Community Tasting Note

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine Likes this wine: 98 points

  August 30, 2022 - An Amazing Arizona Tasting: Splash decant then slo-O for about 1 1/2 hours. What can I say....I am a Harlan whore...I love Harlan! Not sure how they do it, but their wines have such a luxurious mouthfeel, they would likely seduce me even if they weren't so darn tasty! I don't know if it was bottle variation, extra time in the cellar, or the decant time, but this bottle lived up to its potential! This was on par with the 1996 I fell in love with!
  
  Nose was sweet, perfumed purple and white flowers with notes of cherry and blackberry liqueur and some saddle leather, graphite and earth....palate was defined by silky/velvety tannins wrapped around gorgeous black, blue and purple fruit, with pencil shavings, some earth and tar notes, rich dark chocolate and sweet toasted oak. An absolute pleasure to drink and my WOTN! 98...ties my highest rating to date.
  
  As a side note, I set my benchmark at 98 in case I ever come across a better wine...so far, that has not happened! I feel like my 98 may well be other's 100, FWIW....

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38 Comments

• bsumoba commented:

  8/31/22, 10:35 AM - Thanks for the TN. It is good to know that Harlan's can age. I have a couple 19's coming and it my son's birthyear wine so I cannot wait to try in 2040 when he turns 21.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  8/31/22, 10:53 AM - Should be stunning! I hope he will appreciate it!

• bsumoba commented:

  8/31/22, 11:07 AM - If he doesn't, I will. Lol.
  
  I'll drink one and save the second for him, if he were to ever want to drink it when/if he gets into wine

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  8/31/22, 11:22 AM - LOL....I would recommend you wait until 2044, and give him a little time (and coaching) to develop a palate. :). My nieces are 28, and I am just starting to give them their birth year wines! (1994)

• bsumoba commented:

  8/31/22, 11:31 AM - I agree. I went big on 19' specifically so I can give him some if he were to get into it. Even got a couple 1st growths that I know should take the aging process very nicely. Now, I got baby #2 coming end of Sept and will be looking for 22' vintage wines. I wonder how Napa and BDX are doing in terms of their harvest (if they even started yet) and the quality of the grapes this year.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  8/31/22, 12:08 PM - Harvest is usually October....but with weather changes, you never know! I would guess they get pushed out later, but truthfully, I have no idea!

• Mark1npt commented:

  8/31/22, 8:40 PM - Same here....I've never given a 100 to any wine, but I keep searching.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  8/31/22, 11:09 PM - LOL Mark...then if we ever find one, we will have to revamp our whole rating system in case something even better comes along!

• Decanting Queen commented:

  9/1/22, 3:57 AM - Bsu my daughter developed a great palate and interest early on, so we started drinking hers on her 18th. It’s been fun.

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 4:33 AM - Brian, I'm hearing a lot of chatter about how '22 is very similar to '18 thus far....

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 4:51 AM - Jason, the difference is you and I are grading wines across our cumulative lifetimes and across all vintages and holding them up to that 100 pt scale. I read somewhere recently that the 'critics' score wines according to the vintage they are tasting and only rating against other wines from that same 'vintage'. Therefore, it pays for one to know about each vintage in detail. A 98 from 2011 in Napa certainly wouldn't compare against a 98 from '16 very well.......

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/1/22, 7:25 AM - I never heard that…..that sucks if it’s true

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 7:38 AM - Yes, for people that only 'chase' scores, it's not good.......I'd much rather know about the vintage and knowing that one of the best wines is all the more better because it was a great vintage, too. Making a 97 pt cab from a year like Napa '11 or '17 is a nice feather in one's cap, but in reality, it's only akin to being the tallest midget in the circus.......

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/1/22, 2:19 PM - I would hope they are more objective....97 points should mean the same thing no matter when or what they are scoring...

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 2:33 PM - Not what I'm hearing. The score is entirely relative to the vintage. Can you imagine if they scored a bad vintage '11 against a great vintage, the '16? You probably wouldn't get an '11 with a score over 87 points if you scored them against the '16s.

• Decanting Queen commented:

  9/1/22, 3:23 PM - Mark I have never heard that before. Scores are overall lower in bad vintages—not saying you are wrong but I think this one needs further research !!!!

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 3:37 PM - I'm wracking my brain to remember where I read it!!!

• bsumoba commented:

  9/1/22, 3:55 PM - I feel like it has to be somewhat vintage based. Maybe we are all, to a certain degree right and maybe this shows how flawed the scoring system is in general.
  
  For me, I really only want the best vintages so that is my first requirement. Life is too short. I will buy year over year with a few producers like Macdonald, VHR, Dominus, Eisele (I think I have the 17' vintage for all 4 of those producers), but if you were to look at my cellar, there are probably less than half a dozen bottles of the 17 vintage in there. For the 20, there might only be 2 off the top of my head when all is said and done. I could see 98 pt from a critic for a 2020 vintage Napa wine, I will not buy it but I will buy a 92 pt VHR or Macdonald in 2020 and that is because for specific producers, I want to support them, I want to keep my vertical intact and when I do pop the bottle, I will have a great story behind it.
  
  So, vintage first then individual wine score second. From here, I would then taste and evaluate my own score. In a great vintage, I expect there to be multiple 99-100 pt rated wines from critics. Producers are becoming more consistent with their winemaking and in a great vintage with little to no environmental issues to contend with and a "grand cru" site, I expect the wine to be phenomenal. If they didn't make a 97+ pt wine in 2016, 2018 and maybe 2019, then something went wrong.

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 4:43 PM - Agree 1000% with your logic and your note, Brian!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/1/22, 8:02 PM - I think you misread or someone misstated....think about it...A winery receives a score of 97 in one vintage and a score of 94 in another.....the 97 is in a bad vintage and the 94 is in a good one....now people have both and everyone agrees the wine from the good vintage is better....how long would that critic last?
  
  I can't see it being vintage based.....I can tell you I will be PO'd if some of the Bordeaux I ordered turns out to be 80 point wines because a critic inflated their score based. on the vintage....

• bsumoba commented:

  9/1/22, 9:33 PM - IRBDW - For me personally, that is how I use critic scores. I'm not saying that is how other wine drinkers see it nor is it how critical expect us to see it. The vintage is most important to me for a couple reasons: wine in a great vintage keeps its value and wine is both a commodity to consume as well as sell or trade, and the juice itself shoukd be better quality and leads to better wine with less intervention needed from the winemaker or grower to make the wine good.
  
  I agree with you to a certain extent that a 95 pt wine in the 17 vintage should be better than a 92 or wine from the 18 vintage on paper, but it is hard for me to believe that the critic is considering the 17 vintage in his/her 18 vintage scores. Is the critic giving a wine a higher score because they are blown away that a producer made a great wine in a challenging year? And likewise, are they giving a lower score to a wine in a great vintage because their expectations are higher? I guess we will never know and I doubt a critic would tell us the reality. They would like for us to believe that they are singularly judging the wine regardless of producer and vintage and maybe someone like WS is better at it because they often blind taste their wines for score. At the end of the day, I can never see a great scoring wine from Napa 2011 being better than a good score from the 2016 vintage. The vintage is so important, so much so that Bordeaux adjusts their pricing based solely on the vintage and people are willing to spend more simply because of the vintage.

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/1/22, 10:36 PM - Sound argument, Brian!
  
  Devil's advocate.....2 wines, both reds from Bdx......both got 95 pts.
  
  One was from 2009, a very nice year and one was from 2013 a mostly terrible year for reds there.
  
  Which one you gonna buy? My first move is to the better overall vintage (2009), no question.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/1/22, 11:12 PM - Sadly, I disagree with both of you, and I can say I have purchased wines from poor vintages....some wineries (in Napa and Bordeaux) adjust their production due to vintage, but still make quality wines even in bad vintages. Re your example with 2011, many wineries in Napa made killer wines in 2011....however, it was a year that you need to be selective, as some wineries made poor wines that year. I think critic scores for the most part represent that fact. Regarding 2016....yes, most wineries in Napa made a very good or great 2016. I do agree that vintage is important, especially at restaurants where there may be wines you are not familiar with, i.e., I would buy a 2016 Napa wine I don't know before buying a 2011 wine I am not familiar with.....however, if I saw scores, I would be inclined to buy the higher rated wine. Moreover, if I go to Wine Searcher, I fully expect (and seems to always be the case) that a producer will receive a lower score in poor vintage than they receive in a better vintage. Also, as in 2013 Oregon Pinots, it depended on when picking took place, i.e., those who picked earlier and avoided the rains produced better wine than those who waited and were forced to pick during the rains, and the critic scores reflect this....Finally, I rarely purchase wines for trading or selling, but if I was inclined to do so, I would pick 100 point wines, regardless of vintage before I would pick a lower score, even from a stellar vintage.

• bsumoba commented:

  9/1/22, 11:47 PM - I would simply buy 99-100 or wines in great vintages and not even mess with a mediocre or bad vintage. With so much wine out there, I just dont see a need to buy a bad vintage at all other than to keep a vertical going given how much wine is out there. I also do not drink everyday and my reasoning to drink is either social, or special occasion typically so my need for a bunch of QPR wines is minimal. For the everyday drinker, I can see why buying in a not so good vintage is advantageous. Pricing could be better especially in the secondary market and if you find the right producer and wine, there are awesome wines to be had.
  
  Mark, I'm in agreement with you. Given same score, I would gravitate immediately to the better vintage of the two.

• Decanting Queen commented:

  9/2/22, 4:12 AM - Jason, I am more in agreement with you. I think ‘in theory’ the critics are supposed to be rating these wines objectively, without price or vintage bias
  However, we know they have many competing agendas and biases so no score is truly objective. So for that reason I can say BSU and Mark aren’t totally wrong.
  But every year for Bordeaux people wait excitedly for the ratings to get a sense of the vintage. That wouldn’t make sense if they were rating each vintage against itself. And I agree there were rare producers who pulled out great wines even in Napa ‘11 and ‘17. (Loved William and Mary in ‘17 for example although didn’t enjoy many other 17s)
  As for Mark’s hypothetical ‘which would you buy’ we have to remember different people have different tolerances for vintage variation. Mark hates green pyrazine of all kinds (me too although lesser) so will never like wines from those underripe vintages and the 2013 Bdx and 2011 Napa would never be the right choice for him. But other people think that green bell pepper brings complexity, and that 09 was too hot and California-like for Bdx, so they might have a different view.
  The critics aren’t rating against each of our perfect wines. Just my 2c
  And I don’t follow the critics very closely. I buy vintages and producers that I like. And then I rely on CT!!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 9:50 AM - Very well put Jennifer, and truthfully, I don't pay much attention to critics anymore anyway, but then again, I don't buy wine as an investment. I do however, rely on critics in some instances, e.g., if I am at a restaurant and want to purchase a wine. For example, I like buying Italian wine at restaurants many times because they are usually reasonably priced and typically go well with food. Even though I don't pay much attention to the actual scores of James Suckling, I do think he has a pretty good palate (i.e., one that matches mine) for Italian wines, so I do pay attention if he is rating one wine higher than another...typically, I will buy an Italian wine from a producer I am not familiar with, in a vintage I am not well versed in, if he rates the wine higher and it is priced relatively attractive. Of course, I like Sangiovese better than Nebbiolo, so I take that into account also. Other than those rare instances, I purchase wines from producers I like in good vintages, with the exception of Bordeaux, which I will purchase producers I like in a poorer (but not terrible) vintage because I find often those wines are still very good, and more approachable at a younger age, e.g., 2004 (Left Bank), 2017 (Right Bank), 2012 (Pomerol), etc. But hey, we all have our palates, and we should all purchase what we are comfortable purchasing, so in that regard, I agree with those guys....I just think it is crazy to think they rate wines by vintage rather than across vintages....for one thing, if that were true, you should have the same amount of 100 point wines even in a bad vintage...just my 2c. :)
  
  I will add though, that to some degree, I do agree with them in regard to I think ratings, at least in part, are not 100% objective, as I don't think anyone, including critics, can help taking expectations into account when scoring a wine, so there may be a slight bias in score when a wine surprises a critic (as in a poor vintage) and over-delivers for their expectation...(I guess that's 3c!)

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 9:58 AM - On a separate note, BSU....wouldn't you buy a wine from a poor or mediocre vintage if you tasted it and enjoyed it?

• bsumoba commented:

  9/2/22, 11:33 AM - Producers and many critics already know that given the environmental conditions for that year, there is an expectation for that vintage. I think critics know, going into en primeur what kind of growing season Bordeaux had. If the rumor was that the 2018 vintage was a great growing season and I taste wine from that vintage, I can easily see myself taking the overall vintage into account. A good personal example is with Lite. He had us taste an Abreu Madrona and hid the vintage from us and asked us to score it. I think I scored it a 95..it was drinking very well. He then told us it was a 2011. I was shocked and thought to myself this was a phenomenal wine for 2011. It might have felt like a 98 pt wine after he told us because we all know how hard the growing season was for 2011. That being said, I still wouldn't buy it. Now, if the wine came out of the 2016 vintage, I would have thought, ok that was good but I might not be inclined to buy that wine now because my expectation for a great winery is to make a 98+ pt wine in that vintage.
  
  IRBDW - To answer your question, I wouldn't buy any 2017 unless it was to keep a vertical going or there was a reason behind it. For example, I bought 2 bottles of the 2017 Ciminelli Family Foundation Grazie a Voi because 100% of the proceeds went to the firefighters that helped save their vineyard during the 17 fires. It was also a decent wine (I didn't rate it, but it was probably bordering on 90/91 and not worth what I paid for). I don't see any other reason personally and to me, I would ask myself, why not just buy 2016 or 2018?

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 12:10 PM - BSU - Maybe price, for one thing? The other is that 2011 was a spotty year, not a poor year...some wineries made phenomenal 2011s....of course many made poor wines too...lots of factors, including greed and selection, as well as when grapes were picked, and of course winemaking skill. It sounds like you give lots of credence to expectations if you would think about scoring a wine a 98 rather than a 95 based on expectations due to the difficulty of the vintage. I would think (and do) the opposite, i.e., I would think how awesome they made a 95 point wine in a difficult vintage....hopefully, the critics do the same!

• bsumoba commented:

  9/2/22, 1:36 PM - I said that it would feel like a 98 pt wine, not that I rated it a 98. Like I said, I rated it 95pts doing it blind and when I found out is was 2011, I thought that was amazing in that vintage. I don't know if my score would have been skewed if I knew the vintage. I certainly knew it was Abreu so with that information alone, I have an expectation of quality.
  
  I don't think anyone can objectively score a wine non-blind and is often said in the tasting notes if it is tasted blind because doing that way tends to give the score a bit more credibility. We can certainly try and I certainly try, but I am fooling myself if I think my scores aren't skewed to some degree because I know the producer or vintage. It is just fact.
  
  That being said, when I see a wine that scores multi 100 pt from critics or I hear critics talking about certain vintages being great vintages I take notice. I will take even more notice when CTers on averaging are scoring a wine very well.
  
  One thing I just did...I checked out Opus One, Les Pavot, VHR, Harlan, Dominus, Insignia, Araujo Eisele, Abreu Madrona and Thorevilos and 2011 are all on average lower than every other vintage around it. Now, to be fair there are some where 2011 is not the lowest CT score like Abreu Las Posadas, Promontory, Corison, etc. It makes me wonder if we were to be blind of the producer and year, and tasted them, that the scores could be/would be higher on average and my hypothesis that our subconscious bias is skewing our scores is indeed true.

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/2/22, 3:26 PM - Looks like I triggered a firestorm.....

• bsumoba commented:

  9/2/22, 3:40 PM - All discussion of wine is good. Bo one is wrong or right in my opinion. I think we all use the data that's in front of us in our own unique ways.
  
  IRBDW - Is there a 17 wine in particular that you thought was great from Napa and are the other CT scores indicative of your thoughts on the wine?
  
  I'm genuinely fascinated by how critics and other CT scores affect our perception of wine or even marketing from the producer themselves.

• Decanting Queen commented:

  9/2/22, 4:52 PM - Lol I love a firestorm

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 6:12 PM - BSU....hard to say, I have 2017 Carter GTO....yes, other CTs rate it high, but I have not tasted it yet because I like some age on my wines, and because it only comes in magnums.....I also have promontory, which I liked and tasted at the winery, but I didn't buy many 17s from Napa....I do own a few from Bordeaux...as I said, I mostly buy from wineries I like or tasted....I don't buy based on critic scores, unless I know the wine and trust the critic.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 6:15 PM - I've never seen a firestorm....does sound pretty cool though! :)

• bsumoba commented:

  9/2/22, 7:40 PM - I've gone through Spring Mountain on our way up to Lokoya and that was a firestorm. The damage was devastating.

• Mark1npt commented:

  9/2/22, 8:30 PM - You guys and Jen, are killing me!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  9/2/22, 9:04 PM - Don't die Mark....you still have to many good wines to drink, and even more to taste!

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