Community Tasting Note
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JLuch1 Likes this wine:
March 15, 2023 - My local wine shop got a few cases in so decided to try a bottle now. Following this over a couple days and it is far too young. Has all the ingredients to be a great wine but I am showing up 5-10 years too early to the party.
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15 Comments
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WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/15/23, 11:14 AM - The 09 isn’t ready yet.
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JLuch1 commented:
3/15/23, 11:20 AM - I had anticipated waiting 10-15 years after vintage, but perhaps I have to revise my expectations on this one.
Have been drinking a lot of the 16 Senejac and Cantemerle, they have been forgiving following a decant and make excellent cellar defenders. Although the Cantemerle arguably could also use a bit more time. -
WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/15/23, 11:27 AM - I have 14, 15 & 16 DdC and haven’t tried any yet as I know they aren’t ready. Senejac and Cantemerle aren’t as tannic. I have some 15 Cantemerle coming and obviously haven’t tried.
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JLuch1 commented:
3/15/23, 11:34 AM - Appreciate the feedback. I started acquiring Bordeaux more so in the last couple years and am still tasting my way through the Chateau's. Main emphasis is on classically styled versus modern. Has been a nice journey so far.
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WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/15/23, 1:02 PM - While I enjoy both BDX styles I much prefer the Classic, traditional style of Bordeaux. It’s getting harder to know which is which now as many Chateau have changed their winemaking. The good news is there is great quality all over Bordeaux and there isn’t the need to spend lots of money for them. Enjoy the Journey.
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Hendmo commented:
3/15/23, 6:25 PM - Interesting debate - JLuch I often find the second and third tier estates are just made to drink a little younger (with a few exceptions like Meyney) while the top estates will often need 15yr or even more (the 1996 Las Cases is only just ready!)
If you want to try a younger vintage, don’t forget the second wines/labels which are made to be drunk early - suggest Pagodes des Cos or Dame de Montrose in St Estephe, Reserve de La Comtesse in Pauillac, Croix de Beaucaillou in St Julien, Segla in Margaux, Le Petit Haut Lafite in Graves and Les Petite Eglise in Pomerol (unless you have the money to stump up for the first growth’s second wines of course).
These second wines are often ready to go with 7-10yrs but I’d also recommend sticking to stronger vintages when the quality of the grapes is high and they can really can perform above their price point. I personally go for Cos and Beaucaillou. -
JLuch1 commented:
3/16/23, 7:42 AM - Appreciate the feedback from you both and will check out some of these wines. I am on the earlier side of collecting, so I do have the time to let these bottles rest in to their drinking windows. I have been seeking deals mainly on the 2016 vintage given its strength and en premeur for more recent release vintages. I've noticed that, quite consistently, once benchmark wines, such as DdC hit the 15 year mark, they double in price. Making the prospect of cellaring seem more practical/worth it. In comparison to Napa wines, which typically don't see that kind of increase in the secondary and often have a tendency to go down or stay somewhat flat. Of course there are exceptions to that, such as Mayacamas, Dunn, Corison, Ridge and similar wines intended for extended aging.
I have had good luck on WineBid getting deals on ready to drink wines, but specifically California wines. There are a handful of 90s-00s that I've managed to grab at far below current release price and so far the wines have been fantastic. This is simply not possible to do with Bordeaux.
Alternatively, current release cru bojo, Nebbiolo, and Rioja have been great wines to ponder while the Bordeaux blends age.
Adding this perspective in case there are other suggestions I have overlooked. -
Hendmo commented:
3/16/23, 5:53 PM - If you're looking to cellar, a few suggestions having started on a very similar path to you
- if you're storing professionally (ie. in bonded warehouse), I would suggest only storing more expensive wines, as the cheaper wines don't appreciate enough to offset the costs (ie. probably start at US$50-60+)
- Buy the more expensive end of the wines you can afford for storage, they age far more reliably and it's very unlikely you'll be unhappy you did so down the road (good advice I ignored myself). Even if storing at home, space becomes an issue so be patient...
- Prices for the cheaper estates vary much less between good/bad vintages, but the quality can be significantly better, so go for the top vintages like 2016/19 for names <$50
- The better estates see much more variation in pricing, but actually are far more consistent in quality thanks to terroir and wine-making, so don't discount OK years like 2014 or 2017 for a "bargain"
If you like the DDC price range, I'd also suggest trying Malescot in Margaux (quality is on the rise), Langoa Barton or Lagrange in St Julien and Grand-Puy-Lacoste in Pauillac. La Gaffeliere in St Emilion or Feytit Clinet in Pomerol are also very good value, particularly in 2019/2020.
Going up a notch, I'd also recommend trying Leoville Barton, Leoville Poyferre, Pontet Canet and Chateau Canon. They can produce some spectacular stuff and fairly priced for the extra quality. -
WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/16/23, 7:03 PM - At the higher RB range I prefer Clos Fourtet, Canon la Gafelliere, Larcis Ducasse, Feytit Clinet & Beausejour Becot. We were in StE this summer and tasted at La Gaffeliere. Underwhelming.
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Hendmo commented:
3/16/23, 10:38 PM - Interesting Wineguy and thanks for a few more names to try. I had some '05 Gaffeliere's which were great, but haven't tried the younger stuff which is still in storage so hopefully they come around! I'd completely agree on Canon La Gaffeliere, I am drinking some 2000's at the moment and they are excellent. Clos Fourtet I had some 08's but they were just OK, I hear the 19's are much better. Will have to try the other 2.
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WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/17/23, 7:13 AM - The 09 & 10 StE & Pomerols are drinking great. Some 12’s are good too. I think the earlier La Gafelliere are good. I had a 10 recently and it was average at best. Had the 16 at the winery and it too was just average. Maybe the 15 & 16 improve with age. I just bought more 15 Fleur Cardinale for $50 and it’s great. There are also some good 14’s at decent prices. 14 Feytit Clinet was $59 recently and so bought a case of that. Love me some Right Bank.
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JLuch1 commented:
3/17/23, 8:32 AM - Thanks WineGuy and Hendmo for the suggestions and perspective. I am fortunate enough to have a canning cellar in my basement that I converted in to an insulated passive cellar a few years back. I have racking for around 400 bottles and can probably expand that to ~700 bottles. I don't have plans to go the third party storage route based on my rate of acquisition versus consumption, but I suppose that could change if my financial position does.
I have grabbed some of your suggestions already, such as Pontet Canet, Poyferre, GPL, Canon La Gaffeliere , Lynch Bages, Brainare Ducru, Dame Montrose, Cantenac Brown, D'Issan and others.
I feel like my biggest issue is really finding ready to drink examples that are available to purchase but aren't budget breakers. The best I have been able to come up with are the 16 Senejac and Cantemerle which are fairly approachable now. Otherwise, a lot of the older vintages are priced pretty high for even mid tier Bordeaux, but perhaps I am looking in the wrong place. -
WineGuyDelMar commented:
3/17/23, 9:02 AM - JLuch1 You like Pinot Noir? We drink a lot of PN so easy to PNP. Some good inexpensive Oregon ones from Vincent, Franny Beck, Goodfellow, Patricia Green. These can fill some vintage holes.
Otherwise some 12 & 14 mid range StE like Barde Haut, Clos de L’Oratoire, Tour St Christophe etc. Fombrauge is inexpensive as is Cotes de Castillon/Bordeaux. Had a 14 Ch Montlandrie last night…great. Baby St Emilion. Doesn’t have the depth or structure of good StE but for $25 it’s very good & drinkable. Some inexpensive Listrac & Moulis wines too. Just drank some 15Fourcas Duprè which is not amazing but $20. Just a pizza wine. Montlandrie is much more substantial for the price. -
JLuch1 commented:
3/17/23, 9:22 AM - Pinot Noir I am hit or miss with. My favorite domestic Pinot so far has been from the School House Vineyard (Spring Mountain). I have some Rivers Marie on hand as well and have enjoyed those.
I have been scratching the lighter body itch with Bojo (Thivin Cote De Brouilly and Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Griffe du Marquis) as well as Nebbiolo, Langhe or Barolo/Barbaresco from Viette and Produttori and obviously Roija. Those have generally been working for me more so than Pinot, but its more a matter of personal preference.
One of my favorites were the wines produced by Paul Gordon at Halcon vineyards (primarily his syrahs), but he stopped producing wine in 2019 and sold the vineyard to Pax I believe. But man are those some of the best wines for the $$ I have had. Thankfully I have a nice stash and can't wait to see how they transform over the next decade or more. -
Hendmo commented:
3/17/23, 9:27 AM - Agree on Montlandrie - in fact all the Durantou stable are good value (he used to be winemaker at Pomerol legendary estate L'Eglise Clinet) so worth trying Montlandrie, Cruzelles, Chenade. They tend to drink fairly well young but also good enough to last 10-15yrs+, I just had some 2019 Cruzelles today and it was young but ready to go.