Community Tasting Note

• sfwinelover1 Likes this wine:

  October 19, 2023 - Fourth bottle of 6, and the best so far. Off the pour, oak, tannins, acidity and a boozy note existing fractiously with the fruit and secondary notes, but in a couple of hours, all but the boozy note had balanced, and by the end of night 1, that was mostly integrated, too. Vivid cassis, dark cherries and berries framed by loam, tobacco, dark chocolate, anise and a touch of forest floor. Held well on night #2, but lost a step on night #3. I’ve been drinking this half case side by side with a case of the ‘10. The ‘10 was clearly the better for my palate until the past year, when it faded, and this surpassed the last couple of bottles of that. I’m not sure where this is in its evolution—the past several writers are all of the place from past prime to more than a decade of life left—but I suspect it’s at or close to peak, a good choice to consume now with air, but likely to have at least a couple-few years left at this point, perhaps incrementally better (the quick fade of the ‘10 makes me profess drinking window prognostications with less than 100% certainty). Similar qualitatively, though characteristically totally different, than the recent Col D’Orcia (that was a tremendous food wine, this good with food but probably better on its own), but at 3x the price, hard not to love our Tuscan friends. 93+ if scoring

  5 people found this helpful 3,111 views

10 Comments

• WineGuyDelMar commented:

  10/20/23, 5:54 PM - I have three bottles of the 2014 left. I need to try one soon. These wines can change very quickly. Always been a big fan of this wine.

• sfwinelover1 commented:

  10/21/23, 7:41 AM - I paid just over $100/btl for these, the most I’ve paid for any vintage of this (the others have all been in the $80s). At the former, this is, for me, a justifiable, but unexciting choice, but well above average at the latter. I also have ‘13s and ‘16s. While I’m unlikely to touch a ‘16 for at least a couple-few years, I’ll probably pop a ‘13 for comparison purposes sometime in the next few months. Will look for your TN on the ‘14. Cheers!

• sfwinelover1 commented:

  10/21/23, 7:46 AM - Back to your TN of about a month ago: I do find this comparable to Montelena at comparable price points, with an edge to one in some vintages, the other in other vintages. The PR tends to drink better earlier, Montelena with age, PR on its own, Montelena with food. Both are uninspiring at full retail. PR is much easier to get discounted through the Treasury Estate Friends & Family Program. My $.02.

• WineGuyDelMar commented:

  10/21/23, 8:12 AM - BPR vs CM are very different for me. BPR is much more full, extracted and more flavor layers. CM to me is similar to Dunn HM but not as good. Both are a more medium weight mouthfeel. More finesse. BPR is more opulent and rich. Agree neither is worth the money now. I paid $105 for 4 bottles of the 14 BPR a while ago.
  
  I am down to 43 bottles of Napa Cab now out of 800 in my cellar. Not sure if I will buy more CA Cabs when they are gone. I’ve done this before buying only Bordeaux then started buying CA Cabs again. My cellar now is primarily Bordeaux and I think this is where it will stay for a while. I do love my Kobalt which is no longer made. We shall see. Cheers !!

• sfwinelover1 commented:

  10/21/23, 8:33 AM - Fwiw, I popped a ‘13 Hartwell ER last night for which I paid $68/btl, including auction premium, a few years ago, and it solidly beat any PR or CM I’ve had. I’ve never paid that little for a PR, and while I’ve been buying CMs since the late ‘80s, when I was in my mid 20s and they were $29, I haven’t paid that little for a CM for probably 20 years. The mid spectrum (that is, not Stony Hill, not Venge-Smith) Napa cabs scratch a particular itch for me, and while I often love Tuscany as much as life itself, I’m not sure I’ve ever had a Tuscan BDX blend that gets to the point of Abreu and Ovid. While I’ve had BDX at that level, it’s been at *far* higher price points. I was buying a lot more European for a while, but I’m buying less and more expensive now, and for me, that often means Napa. My cellar is a bit less than half US (with about 5% of that WA, especially QC and Andrew Will), most of the rest Italy. It’s been within a couple of ticks of that ratio for a while and seems likely to stay there for as long as I can enjoy the fermented grape.

• WineGuyDelMar commented:

  10/21/23, 8:42 AM - Buy a few 2015 Bellefont Belcier for sub $55 and decant it two hours. Better than BPR or CM for less than half the price.it’s drinking so great. I have 9 left but might buy another 12.
  
  I like Andrew Will wines. Also Long Shadows. I just received some 17 Zenato Amarone & 16 Tenuta di Arceno Valadorna which is one of the best QPR Italians made.
  
  Ovid & Abreau are amazing but also higher prices. I do really like Larmead Cabs and LMV Salon. I have some 15 & 16 Cabs.

• sfwinelover1 commented:

  10/21/23, 9:07 AM - Agree on the Larkmead LMVs, especially the ‘08s and ‘09s, which I’ve paid in the $100-110 range for beating both CM and PR. I’ve loved TRB’s ‘13 Riverains, which I paid sub $70 for at auction. I find several lower to middle priced RBers like Fleur Cardinale and Barde Haut quite nice, but leaving aside that the blend is of course different, a step below CM and PR, ditto Valadorna, which I also like and is considerably cheaper. The closest BDX analog in my drinking universe is Leo Barton and SHL. I paid considerably more for my ‘00 LB, which I liked a bit better, although I’m not sure worth the premium. I got my ‘19s at Costco for $63.99; the first drank really well early, will be interested to see how it ages. The others in the ‘15-‘18 (ex ‘17) run were all in the low $100s. I also got picked up 2 ‘19 SHLs for $84.99@ but haven’t tried yet. I’ve paid a bit more than that for other vintages which I’d put in the same quality bucket. I’d put the ‘09 SHL which my sis poured me above this group, but I note that, at least until the past few years, the ‘09 vintage for me in BDX is the most Napa-like, and that particular bottling is showing up for well north of $200 on WS, at which point I’d put it solidly below the ‘12 Ovid, similarly priced. The ‘00 Latour, which I was lucky to get small pours of at 80 Euros@ but which typically goes for about $1k, and the ‘18 Lafleur, which a generous soul brought to our tasting last Spring and which shows up for about $1800, were 2 of the wines of my life, but hey, at those prices, they should be, and we all have our limits, and those are *well* past mine. Are they (or Harlan, another premium quaff I was treated to at that tasting) worth the premium over said Abreus and Ovids? To me, generally no, but if money were no issue, I’m sure I’d dabble occasionally, but I feel very lucky able to drink what I purchase, and to sample the other stuff on occasion from the generosity of others and the occasional availability of tasting on a small pour basis like the latour.

• El_Dougo commented:

  10/21/23, 4:31 PM - Great posts here. Thanks for sharing!
  I opened a bottle of the BPR ‘12 vintage in July (see CT note) and found it overly extracted and very alcoholic for my liking (we drank it side by side with a Forman which may have also been a factor). We slowed ox’ed it over 2 days and I cannot say that it improved for me. I was surprised that this wine was so rich 11 years on and wonder if more time will calm it. I have 12+ bottles left so hoping for then best.
  One thing I’ve learned is the more I drink / learn (drinking is learning!), the more my palate is changing.

• sfwinelover1 commented:

  10/21/23, 5:38 PM - ED. Thanks for your kind comment. Agree that this is drinking youthfully, and while my evaluation is kinder than yours, I think that there’s room for for further integration and, hopefully, improvement. As an aside, I really appreciate your TNs and am impressed with the diversity of what you drink. And I had a ‘09 Foreman recently and was likewise impressed!

• El_Dougo commented:

  10/22/23, 5:44 PM - Thanks SF. I’m fortunate to live in a city (Hong Kong) that is a nexus of Int’l wine - both as a result of a famously huge business trade focusing on mainly French wine and also (and more interestingly I think) because of an intl expat community that pulls on their home wines and home experiences. Add to that some wonderful travel with said expat friends and I’m one lucky oenophile.
  Meanwhile I’ve benefitted immensely from your reviews and other CT “friends.” Pls keep these excellent notes coming. I read them all with great appreciation.

Add a Comment