Community Tasting Note

• Cristal2000 Likes this wine: 97 points

  September 19, 2020 - The best HSS I have had since the 2012. I've been mildly disappointed with some recent vintages, but this one is the real deal. Nose of blackberry liqueur, mint, sweet oak and violets. Full bodied with amazingly fine grained powerful and integrated tannins, this wine is built like a brick house. Shows great concentration from start to finish, while constantly evolving and changing. Very complex. Big black and blue fruit complemented by loads of earthy notions. Super fresh, balanced and opulent at the same time, this pulls off the power without the heaviness. Long finish.

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14 Comments

• JEP007 commented:

  9/21/20, 11:28 AM - Totally agree, these just got delivered to my local wine shop a few weeks ago and I couldn't resist opening one. Totally different than 2013, much more seductive and fruit forward. Quite complex and totally enjoyable on PNP...but what a beastess! I can only imagine this will be perfect in 5-7 years once it settles down.

• DrBad commented:

  9/21/20, 11:45 AM - Sounds great and glad I went in big for the HSS '16. Triple Hundo is impressive and since JD is usually 2-3 points higher than AG and LPB I'm counting his 100 as a 103 ;-)

• Cristal2000 commented:

  9/21/20, 12:13 PM - JD's scale starts at 96 for Napa. Anything lower and you better just pour it down the drain. :)

• DrBad commented:

  9/21/20, 12:23 PM - His Napa scale goes to 11(0)

• FJM185 commented:

  9/21/20, 6:51 PM - Cristal2000 thanks for the TN! Wondering you opinion on price point - I have one bottle of this out the door for $300...thought it was a little high for a vintage I had yet to taste but have high hopes. Appreciate your thoughts! Cheers

• Cristal2000 commented:

  9/21/20, 8:04 PM - Hi FJM185 - No doubt this is a very high price point for a wine that goes to distribution. You can find it everywhere and I think they make around 3000 cases, which is a lot in the Napa world. That said, it is also a legendary wine, going since 1978 and regarded as one of the best in the world. Robert Parker used to compare it to Chateau Lafite. This is in the same league as a Eisele (formerly Araujo), which goes for about $450 from the list. So I guess as legends go, this one is pricey but not out of bounds.
  
  Personally, I've been buying from the list since the 2010 vintage, and it has been hit and miss. The 10, 12 and this 16 are amazing wines that easily justify the price, The others I feel like I overpaid. These wines age incredibly well (I can still remember an epic 2004 from not that long ago), so at least you never have to worry about them being over the hill like you do with some of the more modern Napa cult wines. I hate to think what a 15-20 year old Bevan, Mike Smith or Venge wine would taste like. Those are made for early consumption.
  
  So I guess my take is in the right year, like 2016, the price is worth it. But it'll never be a value wine. There's also not a lot of pressure to buy from the list, since you can almost always get it at release price through a retailer. And in years without the magical 100pt scores, less.
  
  You know nearly right across the street is Realm making the Moonracer from their Stag's Leap Estate (formerly Hartwell). It's $250 on the list, and I am very, very curious to compare them now that Realm has had control there for 4 years. That might help settle the debate.
  
  Sorry, long answer! Cheers!

• JEP007 commented:

  9/21/20, 8:36 PM - @Cristal2000 Don't you think Carter's GTO will hold its own to the Shafer Hillside in 15-20 year mark, especially 2016 vintage?

• FJM185 commented:

  9/21/20, 8:46 PM - Thanks for the reply, appreciate the insight!

• Cristal2000 commented:

  9/21/20, 8:56 PM - Hi JEP007 - I love Carter wines. All that hedonism and opulence is just so fun to drink. Their style if of course, ultra modern, and if I'm not mistaken Mike may micro-ox their wine to make it more approachable early. I generally think these wines are 10 year wines, although clearly some may go longer. But the longer they go, I worry they will lose what makes them so interesting - that pure, rich, suave and powerful fruit. I don't know that the underlying structure and complexity is enough to have it really age and get better over decades. For a wine like the GTO, I feel like we are all just waiting for the fruit to come together a bit and calm down, but not so other flavors emerge and take the dominant position in the wine.
  
  That is just my personal opinion of course. I have not had a 15 year old GTO, nor does it exist! So we will see. I can say the only times I've opened a GTO and it seemed like the lesser wine was at some bday dinners next to Harlan, Eisele etc. It's forward and sometimes over the top extracted style can be laid bare in that company. But I have rarely encountered anyone, other than french wine lovers, who don't go goo goo gaga over Carter (and other Mike Smith) wines. They are in their own category of fun to drink.

• JEP007 commented:

  9/22/20, 7:30 AM - Most of my Carters are tucked away, but after recently trying a 2013 Three Kings, I was shocked that the hedonism and opulence I tasted on release had faded drastically, I hope that not to be the case for the entire Carter portfolio, we're not even at year 10 and it was quite an eye opener. I wonder why when RP reviewed the wines he had such an optimistic long-term trajectory. Either way, there is no doubt that the 2016 Shafer will hold it's compose well into year 20. There was so much stuffing in that wine, it wouldn't be shocked if at year 30 it's still singing. I haven't tried the 2002 Shafer HS, but I've heard it's a perfect wine currently at apex and will be for quite some time.

• Cristal2000 commented:

  9/22/20, 8:36 AM - JEP007 - I hate to say it, but the loss of fruit intensity is what is going to happen as they age. With the truly great wines, that gives way to secondary and tertiary flavors, giving the wine more complexity and character. But for Carter (and Myriad etc), I think you need to get at them pretty early. I have so many stories about these wines being unbelievable early and then being merely decent later. The 13 Myriad GIII was absolutely amazing about 2 months after shipping, and a year later, was merely good. It is why, as much as I enjoy this style, I am trying to buy less of it because I can't cellar it for a long time.
  
  You're right on Parker. I think he misjudged the long term prospects of this style.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  10/10/20, 11:19 PM - Great note and I hate you (and TXRDW) . Ever since the 2014 vintage I officially (is there even such a thing) resigned from the HHS fan club. Now you two pull me back in to buy some.. ugh!!!!

• Cristal2000 commented:

  10/12/20, 9:18 AM - Ha! Sorry for helping pull you back in! This one is good, but like you, I was moving toward not buying based on 13-15.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  10/12/20, 10:08 AM - :)

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