Community Tasting Note

• Cristal2000 wrote:

  May 19, 2022 - I have similar feelings to what I see in some notes here. Harlan is releasing a 2020 at all its properties it seems, which is an amazing risk. I can think of no other winery near its status doing so. If these wines end up with taint down the line, it will be ruinous for their reputation. No matter what anyone says, there was a ton of smoke in the valley well before harvest, even if by some stroke of luck they picked before the second fire (not sure how convinced I am of that either).
  
  The barrel sample was thin, primal and really not indicative of this property. Did it overtly show taint? No, but the finish did end on a bitter note, which of course leads one to wonder. No matter how you look at it, this will be a loyalty test for their list, and I am afraid I will not pass. If rating, not good.

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43 Comments

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/20/22, 4:20 PM - Yep exactly. Look at last sentence and remove Not… I think?
  
  Anyway hope all is well. Killer tastings as of late!

• Cristal2000 commented:

  5/20/22, 4:52 PM - I don't foresee myself passing their loyalty test in 2020. Just can't father spending $700+ on a 2020 wine. Kind of absurd to expect people to do it.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/20/22, 7:24 PM - Couldn’t agree more. I thought they were doing it to set people up for the real wine as in ‘wow these wines are incredible’ following the 2020 lol.
  
  Hope all is well.

• Cristal2000 commented:

  5/20/22, 9:29 PM - Lol. There you go. That's quite a hypothesis. I still cannot believe they are releasing 2020. It seems like a crazy risk.
  
  All is well here. I hope for you too!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/20/22, 9:40 PM - Hopefully, they will do what they did with 17s and skip the vintage, but offer it to people buying the 21s that also want the 20s....we will see what happens....

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 12:02 AM - Cristal- thanks!
  
  I- could be, very well could be the case.

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  5/21/22, 6:36 AM - I'm picking up more BDX in 2020 and passing on 99.9% of the usual suspects. Most likely doing the inverse with 21 BDX.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 8:08 AM - MJP - sounds like a good strategy....I picked up a few 20 Bordeaux wines, but I think 19's may be a better deal (not sure if pricing went up, but they were a great deal on release)...either way, you are young enough to take advantage! My recent Bordeaux purchases have been mostly limited to Pomorol, only because I am hopeful that most will be accessible earlier. I think 2021 will likely be my last vintage purchases for CA too.....of course, easier said than done!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 8:11 AM - Lite....I certainly hope it is the case....otherwise I will need to see if they let me pass on the vintage even though Founder's Club member....I hope they succumb to greed....as the old saying goes: Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered! :)

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 9:15 AM - I- yeah and if they don’t let you pass, it’s just expensive grape juice. There are literally thousands of options to choose from.

• Cristal2000 commented:

  5/21/22, 9:39 AM - I also had two 2020 Bond samples on this trip, just haven't had time to get to those reviews. Suffice it to say, they were sketchy at best.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 9:53 AM - I had a bunch of 2020 Bordeaux and they were incredible. So so good.

• Cristal2000 commented:

  5/21/22, 10:04 AM - An easy offramp there it seems.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 11:32 AM - Yes.....I just have a harder time drinking Bordeaux young.....especially when I know how much better it will be with some age.....

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  5/21/22, 11:49 AM - Might not be a popular opinion but some of my favorite right bank wines are more approachable early than some would think. VCC being one of them.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 12:41 PM - Guess my philosophy is a little different....I pay a premium for wine so I can age them and appreciate when they achieve a balance between fruit and tertiary flavors (a balance which differs for different palates)....otherwise, I would think going inexpensive would be ideal for early drinking wines....although, admittedly, I have some expensive young wines and thoroughly enjoyed them. That is part of the reason I have picked up more California wines recently....I figure I can enjoy them in the 7-10 year window, rather than Bordeaux's 20-30+ year window. Like you, I am hoping Right Bank wines (especially Pomerol) will be approachable much sooner....at least that is my hope!

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  5/21/22, 1:17 PM - Jason, for the most part my collection is young, painfully young. I absolutely LOVE secondary and tertiary flavors but almost have to sacrifice youth every now and again so that I have something to drink. I’m building verticals of wines that I hope to see the prime drink windows sometime in the next ten to twenty years. A prime example would be the 2019 Chave Hermitage I’ve just ordered. Or, the 3L of KE La Vol 18 & 19 I convinced myself was a worthwhile investment of time, money and space. These bottles capture a sense of place and time. Like you, I hope to be rewarded one day for having patience as a virtue.

• NickRut commented:

  5/21/22, 1:21 PM - I will be skipping all 2020 bottles unless Macdonald decides to sell one. Big shift for me considering my usual annual purchases but even without smoke taint it seems like an iffy vintage. I regret buying any 2017s and that was less sketch than 20.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 1:26 PM - Well Michael.....you need to get up here to MN sometime so we can share some older wines....I will try to help you out by letting you know what a little patience can do! BTW.....I am not that patient, just fortunate enough to have enough bottles, that I can keep away from my younger wines! Plus, I have purchased some older wines on the secondary market......what can I say.....I admit I am weak! Only saving grace (I hope) is that I have literally no room left in my cellar....have boxes of wine I can't even unpack because no where to put them! Some would say it is a good problem....I say it is a pain in the *ss!

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 1:28 PM - NR- Switch over to Bordeaux or Burg for 2020 as you need to continue to do your part for the economy :)

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 1:36 PM - ID - Bring some out when you come. I have Chateau Angelus, Ducru-Beaucaillou, Troplong Mondot and Cos d'Estrournel fluying in for a wine dinner as well as others! Pick one or all and let's get a group togther for fin the night before and then follow by a cool masterclass or wine dinner with the Chateau in AZ

• NickRut commented:

  5/21/22, 1:47 PM - Ha would love to get more into burg and bdx but I’ve been spoiled there and only really enjoy the super high end stuff. Also can’t justify buying something I know I won’t drink for 30 years. First world problem but quite cost prohibitive.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 2:07 PM - Lite - All those sound great! I think Angelus sounds the most appealing! let me know dates, and I will definitely try to make it out there for at least one of the get-togethers!

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 2:21 PM - Nick.....for many older Bordeaux, there are still some good deals out there for wines ready to drink (I can't talk to Burgs).....some of them, although not First Growths, can be bought very reasonably (especially compared to some of the CA prices and recent Bordeaux prices these days). Look at all the Leoville's, Gruaud Larose, Ducru Beaucaillou, Cos d'E, and some others....very reasonable with age and quite tasty! Just IMHO....

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 3:36 PM - NR- many are also like Napa where you can early drink and be rewarded and not needed to hold for 20-30 years although that is vintage dependent. If you are ever curious, I would be happy to recommend 'reasonable' wines to consider. Re Burg- I have found some killer ones that are not out of the stratosphere... but its not an easy find, that is for sure.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  5/21/22, 3:37 PM - IRBDW- Absolutely. Right now looks like August, Ducru B October, etc. More to come as we finalize.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  5/21/22, 3:49 PM - Sounds good....I will to hear from you!

• Cyclist commented:

  5/22/22, 5:34 AM - Great note and it’s a bit interested that a winery at this price point is releasing a 2020 with these barrel tasting qualities, I mean, they must taste the difference if it’s this stark?
  
  LITE, very interested in hearing your Burg recs if possible. I’m planning a trip out there in early 2021 and want to hit some of the more hidden but good places that aren’t a mortgage payment per bottle. We speak fluent French too so no worry about English speaking tourist issues!

• wdcwineguys commented:

  7/16/23, 4:39 AM - Was just at Promontory this week. Tasted the ‘21 barrel sample, ‘17 and ‘10. The ‘17 is actually doing pretty well. The ‘21, while young, is going to be fantastic. I’m puzzled by the ‘20 and the are pushing full ahead with selling it. Since I’ve only been buying a few of their vintages, how do they treat you when you skip? I can’t imagine they will not loose some list members with this release. I flat out refused to buy Spottswoode 2020, but they’ll keep selling me wine.

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  7/16/23, 6:16 AM - Eisele recently released 2020 and it was easy for me to turn down by saying I'm not buying unless I try it first. Also, there are zero independent reviews which is tough. At least with Spottswoode there are some peer reviews that seem favorable.
  
  Fwiw, I'm only seeing 10 pending deliveries CT for 2020 Promontory.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  7/16/23, 9:50 AM - I turned down Harlan for 2020, and they told me they would let me do it once, but next time I would get booted......at this point, I don't care.....if they are not adjusting their price based on quality, then I will not buy in poor vintages....if they kick me off, so be it!

• wdcwineguys commented:

  7/16/23, 10:24 AM - MJP the release for the 2020 Promontory hasn’t happened yet. This spring was 2019, which ships this fall.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  7/16/23, 10:39 AM - IMO- There are plenty of great and exceptional wines at that price category- if they kick you off, be thankful and flip the funds to other options like Abreu, first growths, right bank bordeaux, Burgundy, Piedmont, etc.

• MJP Hou TX commented:

  7/16/23, 2:51 PM - Thanks for the clarification.
  
  It will be interesting to see what happens when 2020 Promontory does release and it's competing for the spend of other late release like 2019 Abreu. Then again I don't think these wines are competing for the same palate. It will be up against 2021 release so we shall see.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  7/16/23, 3:19 PM - All the Harlan properties (Harlan, Promontory and Bond) have implemented a "Founder's List" where purchasers guarantee they will take a certain amount of bottles each vintage and the winery will make sure they are available....then they release anything left to members (current or waitlisted). If you pass on a vintage, they will forgive it once (at least they did me) but threaten to kick you off the list if you pass more than once. At least that is what I was told when I passed on the 2020 Harlan.
  
  BTW....for what it is worth, Harlan claims they picked in August (before smoke taint), which others have confirmed....

• Cristal2000 commented:

  7/16/23, 3:26 PM - Gents - overall, the reality is none of these wines is exclusive enough for them to be in a position to kick many people off for skipping a vintage. Harlan is only a "deal" on the list in the very best vintages. Promontory was a decent buy 4-5 years ago, but with their price increases it's now about where Harlan is with value. And Bond is already above auction all the time, and sometimes I find it cheaper retail.
  
  I will say Lisa complicated matters buy throwing 100pt scores on both 2020 Harlan and Promontory. She put her reputation on there line there, so it now makes me curious to see how they turn out. That said, I already turned down Harlan, but they did let me buy 2021 instead so that was fine with me. Turned down Bond. Next year, I will almost certainly skip Promontory, which is the hardest because it's my favorite of them all.
  
  Since I wrote this note, Eisele, Dalla Valle, Screaming Eagle etc. have all decided to release a 2020. So some of my comments need to be updated on who was taking this chance. At the end of the day it's a business, and I think there's just too much at stake for these folks. Harlan has the ability to hold massive inventory instead of flood the market with it, so that's a definite advantage. Everyone is going to buy Screaming Eagle. Very curious on the other two I mentioned, since they will likely distribute the bulk of it and it will be cheaper retail by quite a lot I think.
  
  All in all, I think it's important to remember that very few wines are truly hard to get in Napa and convey significant value to their list. Forcing us to buy 2020 in my mind is a violation of that agreement with their loyal wine base, so I'd be inclined to let them go if they pulled that on me.

• wdcwineguys commented:

  7/16/23, 3:46 PM - Cristal2000 thanks for the new comment. I have no doubt they would keep me on the “founders list” if I skipped 2020. The 2020’s are going to be offered at $800/bottle. It’s interesting they poured ‘17 for us, which we really liked. But ‘17 is not ‘20. I’m curious to see how folks respond, but in the end this will merely be a tiny bump in the road for Harlan as a whole. The ‘21 is awesome and I can’t wait for that to hit bottle.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  7/16/23, 6:30 PM - FYI Cristal, I did not pass on Harlan because I thought it would have smoke taint....I passed on it because I believe smoke or not, it was not a very good vintage, no one I have spoken to regarding the 2020 vintage has been very impressed, and they are charging at least the same price as their 2019s. I am sure the wine will be very good, but for those prices, it should be better than just very good! At least that's my opinion, and my warped rationale. :) Of course, by the time I drink it, my taste buds will likely be shot and I wouldn't know the difference anyway! ;P

• Cristal2000 commented:

  7/16/23, 7:06 PM - IDRBW: I would invest in some nice metal straws to be sure you have a chance to experience the 2021 when you finally decide to pop the cork! Lol.
  
  Look, even in August there had been plenty of smoke. And BTW, you know what kind of fruit you are picking in August...somewhat unripe. No matter the tag line. But like you said, the sky was covered for months with fire and smoke, so even without taint, it just wasn't a great year. I am sure Harlan will come up with a drinkable wine, but at over $1000, it's got to be amazing for me to pay up.
  
  But to each their own. If people have it on auto-pilot and the 2020 is in their cellar, I hope it's good.

• I'd Rather Be Drinking Wine commented:

  7/17/23, 4:03 AM - LOL Cristal....I said I passed on 2020 (but wasn't fast enough to pass on Bond, so I will taste at least one 2020 Harlan wine).....I will save that for you and (surprise) I will even open one up young!

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  7/17/23, 7:55 AM - I'd- Since they didn't ship it yet, they will have to accept your request to return - I would request that ASAP.

• NickRut commented:

  7/17/23, 8:08 AM - It's a difficult balance here. I want to support the winemakers because I know they rely on the money but at the same time, it is very hard to spend full tariff for a wine that I know will be inferior. I have hundreds of bottles of 16s, 18s, 19s, 21s and others so I'll literally never drink the off vintages like 17 or 20. Smoke taint or not, I just don't need the lesser vintages. Not every vintage will be 2016 but there is a clear difference in the vintages from a tier level. 20 is def a bottom tier vintage so I'll skip. YMMV though. I only drink 2-3 bottles a week so I only drink what I consider to be exceptional wine at this point.

• LiteItOnFire commented:

  7/17/23, 9:01 AM - NR- same. They could have done what Maybach did which was fabulous. Hey chance of smoke taint down the road. Here are 375s at a reduced price. Drink them early and enjoy.
  
  That strategy
  -upfront and honest
  -smart to package 375s for easy drinking
  -reduced pricing
  
  That’s a brand to stand behind. Everyone wins.

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