Coravin - Does it Truly Work ?

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Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 5:13:12 AM

Jhcwine

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This is the new Parker promoted system that puts a hollow surgical needle through your cork, and injects argon while you pour wine. Supposedly, you can use it check a wine and then return it to cellar further aging, as the cork reseals. This is the Coravin

This may be a great system for short term preservation, but I'm abit nervous about taking a fine (and often expensive) bottle of wine and purposely increasing the ullage, potentially below the neck or even shoulder. Has anyone tested the impacts of this system on wines 5 or 10 years down the road? In my view, the best preservative is ... the original wine! And a question: Why do wines go bad in an argon dispensing system after a week (and I've had lots of bad wines from argon wine bars) and not with Coravin. Both cover the wine with argon. Both seal the bottle. My hooey alert is sounding right now!

Am I missing something here? I'd love this if it truly worked, without risk.

Cheers

Jhcolman

I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles. - Bishop of Seville

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 5:54:05 AM

FRM

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As I wrote in a prior post (search Coravin for the other threads):

Uber-high end NYC restaurant Del Posto (owned by Mario Batali, Lidia Bastianich and her son Joe) uses it, check the link out:

Del Posto Uses Coravin Wine Preservation System

They also have a page devoted to it on their Wine List (see Alla Coravin):

Del Posto Alla Coravin

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Post #: 2

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 9:38:37 AM

ob2s

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I bought one, haven't got it yet. I'll ebay it if it doesn't meet my needs. Your concern about ullage is what normally takes the place of the wine missing. It is either vacuum (not likely over time) or regular air (ie oxygen). The coravin places argon in there as you know. So the ullage is still ullage but without oxygen. I didn't know it was hawked by RP, that certainly would have given me pause. The only issue giving me pause is the expected/assumed cork memory, will the cork be resilient enough to recreate the seal once the needle is removed. I asked coravin about this and they won't respond to it. You should certainly wait and see how the CT 'suckers' rate its performance, unfortunately it will be a while.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 9:40:18 AM

puppetclause

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quote:

Uber-high end NYC restaurant Del Posto (owned by Mario Batali, Lidia Bastianich and her son Joe) uses it, check the link out:

I wonder if the system could be easily hacked to where people could splash a little extra juice in their bottle and make more $ at auction. Just one more thing to fret about I guess...

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Post #: 4

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 10:06:41 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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From the website:

quote:

When the Coravin System and its needle are removed, the cork reseals itself. The remaining wine never comes in contact with oxygen, and continues to evolve naturally.

These statements are the most dubious if you asked me. "the cork reseals itself" I would be fairly certain is much more a function of the cork (age, original size/compression rate, quality, materials of construction, etc...) than the Coravin device.

Wine contacting oxygen IS part of its natural evolution, so removing the O2 and replacing with argon, DOESN'T allow the wine to "evolve naturally" imo. In nature, 100% argon isn't ever the gas that migrates through the cork over time.

I would be interested to see how it works over a relatively short timeframce, but I doubt very seriously that is would allow a wine to stay "intact" more than a few weeks up to a few months.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 10:34:15 AM

River Rat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

From the website:

quote:

When the Coravin System and its needle are removed, the cork reseals itself. The remaining wine never comes in contact with oxygen, and continues to evolve naturally.

These statements are the most dubious if you asked me. "the cork reseals itself" I would be fairly certain is much more a function of the cork (age, original size/compression rate, quality, materials of construction, etc...) than the Coravin device.

Wine contacting oxygen IS part of its natural evolution, so removing the O2 and replacing with argon, DOESN'T allow the wine to "evolve naturally" imo. In nature, 100% argon isn't ever the gas that migrates through the cork over time.

I would be interested to see how it works over a relatively short timeframce, but I doubt very seriously that is would allow a wine to stay "intact" more than a few weeks up to a few months.

It doesn't remove the oxygen and replace it with argon it replaces the wine it removed with argon. Big difference. The amount of O2 originally in the bottle remains there.The person who designed and tested it did so over the course of 15 years trying different gases. He found that argon didn't affect his personal wines over the long term, degradation or taste wise.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 5:08:10 PM

budh

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Count me among the"CT suckers" who have ordered one. I guess this means that Eric needs to revamp the whole CT site to account for partial bottles!

Instead of drinking a bottle, we'll want to record that we drank 1/5 of a bottle and 4/5 remains....

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/2/2013 5:57:40 PM

Jasonrgreen

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One concern people bring up is that as a bottle gets emptier it takes more argon to refill it. Thus it is not economical once the fill level is low. However, as far as I can tell, with the Coravin, when you tap the bottle you don't lose the argon that is already in the bottle, so each glass that gets poured uses roughly the same amount of argon despite the fill level on the bottle.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/4/2013 6:22:47 AM

grizzlymarmot

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Yet another way to enjoy yourself alone.

It sounds like a great idea for high end restaurants, and I would certainly try a glass of wine from one when I could not afford or enjoy an entire bottle.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 4:37:45 PM

ob2s

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Received mine 15 minutes ago and poured myself a glass of a very good wine. I'll have another glass in 2 months, then I am not sure how long I will wait.....

Well made and works easily.

< Message edited by ob2s -- 8/9/2013 4:38:26 PM >

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 4:51:05 PM

champagneinhand

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Argon is a noble gas that is heavier than air. It shouldn't by its very nature effect the wine or anything else. I look forward to updates to this thread as the people who have bought these systems keep us posted.

< Message edited by champagneinhand -- 8/9/2013 6:18:07 PM >

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 5:12:08 PM

BornToRhone

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Would this work better?

1-drink half the bottle
2-pour the remainder into a 375.
3-fill with Argon.
4-drink the rest another day.

If you can pour the wine into a 375, there will be less air in the bottle than in the 750. Problem solved.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 5:50:02 PM

ob2s

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Yes , if you have a walk in Argon/Nitrogen filled room and you can hold your breath while you do all that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone

Would this work better?

1-drink half the bottle
2-pour the remainder into a 375.
3-fill with Argon.
4-drink the rest another day.

If you can pour the wine into a 375, there will be less air in the bottle than in the 750. Problem solved.

_____________________________

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 6:20:42 PM

hankj

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Argon's heavy - if you sparge a bottle with it it lays in there pretty stubbornly as regular air doesn't displace it.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/9/2013 6:27:36 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ob2s

Yes , if you have a walk in Argon/Nitrogen filled room and you can hold your breath while you do all that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BornToRhone

Would this work better?

1-drink half the bottle
2-pour the remainder into a 375.
3-fill with Argon.
4-drink the rest another day.

If you can pour the wine into a 375, there will be less air in the bottle than in the 750. Problem solved.

That was too funny Chic. Maybe Skeletor could do it.

Joe, it would be fine to pour the leftover 375ml into the the split bottle and a small squirt of wine preserver for a short time, but the pouring exposes the wine, as it pour and splashes into the split, to the oxygen in the environment, plus giving a greater surface area to the room gases, and a venturi effect into the liquid.

Last night a guy asked about popping a bottle of champagne, and worried that leaving it open for an hour of two in ice, would cause all the bubbles to dissipate. The fact that when you actually pour the sparkling wine, you are discharging about half the bubbles that were in the wine in the beginning.

These are just weird nerdy concepts, but definitely good questions to any new device, for home wine use. This has some pretty bold claims, and really want to see how it works practically. We can postulate hypotheticals all day and night, but until its field tested by trusted winos, we really won't know if it works, works well or is just another wine gadget thats purchase price could have been applied towards new wine purchases.

At $200, it seems worth a look, especially if somebody has wines that are drinkable now, and could be great in the future. I think this could really be useful in 2009 Bdx and CdP as well as 2010 CdP, that we wonder about their profile now and in 10 years.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/10/2013 2:38:46 AM

geppetto

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I'm picking mine up tomorrow. I think it will potentially change the way I approach attacking my cellar. I really fret about popping a bottle too early. In some cases, I can only afford one or two bottles of a certain wine. If the Coravin truly allows me to take a "no penalty" peek at how my prized bottles are progressing, them I will be in heaven. I would be very unhappy if I popped a $600 bottle too early OR too late. I can't even imagine how those of you with multi thousand dollar bottles deal with the stress! Of course I look at what other CT members are saying, but good grief, the range on drinking windows is baffling. 2005 Pavie "drinking great now" vs "put this away for another 20 years" -- what is one to do? (BTW, those are fabricated quotes, but I'm sure you get the gist of what I am saying). Even WS and WA gave a huge variation in recommended drinking windows.

I'll test it for a few months on some not so highly prized bottles to see how it works. If all goes well, I might try a good bottle.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/10/2013 7:45:25 AM

Eric

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quote:

ORIGINAL: budh

Count me among the"CT suckers" who have ordered one. I guess this means that Eric needs to revamp the whole CT site to account for partial bottles! Instead of drinking a bottle, we'll want to record that we drank 1/5 of a bottle and 4/5 remains....

Add/edit the per bottle private note. Thanks. No new features required.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/10/2013 10:06:51 AM

Ibetian

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As a wine geek, I want one of these. Maybe if I'm good, Santa will bring one.

But I'm not sure how useful it will be in my situation. I have a lot of half bottles as a way of checking in on wines/ vintages. I usually buy multiple bottles, often cases or more, so I can check in and still have plenty of back ups. Plus I've been at this long enough so that I have a good supply of wines in their drinking windows.

That said, it's shiny new wine toy! Got to have it!

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/10/2013 11:44:46 AM

VTCellarDweller

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Since you have to tip the bottle for the pour, I am wondering how it would work with an older red that has been standing up to collect the sediment at the bottom of the bottle. With a decant, I can stop pouring when the sediment starts to run up into the neck.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/10/2013 11:51:56 AM

Eric

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I would imagine that if you are so low in the bottle that sediment would be an issue, you would just pop the cork and decant normally. If for some reason the bottle was very shaken, apparently there are instructions for how to clear sediment from the needle, but I think that is very unlikely to be an issue with early pours from a carefully handled bottle.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/11/2013 11:51:25 AM

JerryL

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We used the Coravin at the get together last night on 2005 Silver Oak cab. We'll pull it out in six months (?) or so with another and do a side by side.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/11/2013 12:05:12 PM

FRM

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Tried it Friday on a 2004 Kistler Pinot Noir - Elizabeth Bodega Headlands. I have 3 bottles (ok, now 2-3/4ths). This is getting passed its prime, so may not wait longer than 3 months.

< Message edited by FRM -- 8/11/2013 2:10:50 PM >

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/11/2013 12:35:12 PM

dbg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jerwin1943

Since you have to tip the bottle for the pour, I am wondering how it would work with an older red that has been standing up to collect the sediment at the bottom of the bottle. With a decant, I can stop pouring when the sediment starts to run up into the neck.

This came up towards the end of the video on eRP. The suggestion was to keep the bottle mostly horizontal on removal from the cellar and to maintain a mostly horizontal position throughout the pouring process.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/11/2013 8:45:14 PM

ckinv368

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Really an interesting concept, and at $299ish, much cheaper than the "restaurant" wine decanter systems. Hope it works. Even if it doesn't work for holding a winen for a significant period of time (greater than a few months), it might be a great way to preserve a really nice bottle for a few weeks, allowing you to leisurely enjoy it over a shorter amount of time with friends.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/12/2013 11:52:41 AM

Beachrooster

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My friend just stabbed a 1962 Latour with one of these. The older bottles will be more fragile and show signs aging than a fresh of the press bottle. I'll get back to you to see how it performs.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/12/2013 3:15:37 PM

fingers

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1962 Latour... good luck

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/12/2013 5:35:36 PM

ob2s

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The question is, how was the taste/glass that was extracted ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

1962 Latour... good luck

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/12/2013 11:37:19 PM

ckinv368

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That is truly a brave man. Although, I guess if he is dedicated to opening the remaining bottle relatively soon, no matter what, it's simply a smart move---get a little bit of early gratification, followed by the real deal a few days / weeks later! Seems like getting to have your cake and eat it too!!

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2013 8:53:58 AM

dream

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I have ordered one as well. My main purpose for using it will be to have a glass of wine here and there over a month's time and not have it go bad in a few days like every other system known to man. I think it will work for that. The idea of taking some wine out to taste and then putting the bottle back in the cellar for further aging doesn't really make sense to me since the last thing I want is a cellar full of ullaged bottles.

As another point, I've had several glasses of wine from Del Posto's program and while they have all tasted pretty fresh, it is difficult to deal with sediment as the needle pulls that out very easily so as you get down to the lower half of the bottle, you might have to still put the wine through cheese cloth to make it palatable.

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2013 12:56:44 PM

Beachrooster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ob2s

The question is, how was the taste/glass that was extracted ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

1962 Latour... good luck

He used the Coravin to extract. I'm not sure if the bottle was upright or laying down. We will try again on New Year's Eve.

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You can't drink them, they're far to valuable.
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