RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!?

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RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 6:41:14 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

That is a problem. Wine cooling units and cellars are a world apart from regular refrigerators. A wine cooling unit needs the thermal mass of the wine and bottles to help maintain a constant temperature. If the unit is empty it with cycle frequently. Frankly I'm surprised it is only cycling once per hour. Before I filled my cellar to 75% my two cooling units cycled several times per hour.

Good. I'll hope that all it is in terms of running regularly. But should it still be that loud?

I just wanted to make sure it actually got to temperature before even thinking about filling it, which I won't have time to do for a while now.

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Post #: 61

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 6:54:31 AM

wineismylife

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From: Arlington, TX
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What make and model cooling unit do you have?

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Post #: 62

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 7:58:32 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

What make and model cooling unit do you have?

OK, here's where I look a fool. (Probably not the only place but ...) Umm, the one that came with the unit?

CellarPro 1800 QT top vent. I admit I didn't really do any research there, other than knowing I needed a top vent. Just answered the dealer's questions and one of the benefits of Le Cache was supposed to be that they didn't up charge for quieter cooling units.

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Post #: 63

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 7:59:39 AM

joegish

Posts: 187
Joined: 5/3/2012
From: Newtown, Connecticut
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My CellarPro 1080 is rather quiet - but my Euro 5200 is filled to capacity.

I actually liked the CellarPro so much that I got rid of the BreezeAire on my other cabinet and replaced it with another CellarPro 1080.

I would imagine when the unit is full, the noise should abate. Mine are in the basement, but seem rather quiet to me.

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Post #: 64

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 8:00:31 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joegish

My CellarPro 1080 is rather quiet - but my Euro 5200 is filled to capacity.

I actually liked the CellarPro so much that I got rid of the BreezeAire on my other cabinet and replaced it with another CellarPro 1080.

I would imagine when the unit is full, the noise should abate. Mine are in the basement, but seem rather quiet to me.

Thanks so much for this! I'll be hoping that's also my situation as once I find the time to fill it, it will be completely full, too. Until then, I've proven it can get to temp and keep it there at least 12 hours (give or take), so I've turned it off for now.

Is there a setting to have the light come on only when you open the door? I'm thinking there's only one or off, but seems like that (on when door open) should be an option.

< Message edited by markandsusanw -- 12/13/2013 8:01:58 AM >

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Post #: 65

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 8:05:21 AM

joegish

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From: Newtown, Connecticut
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Not on my unit.

I just have the standard light (no LED) and turn the light on and off with the switch...

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Post #: 66

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 8:23:58 AM

markandsusanw

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Just one more double check ... How can you confirm it's a top venting unit? I ask because the main exit I see is in the rear, and my invoice does say "top vent" ... It's at the top of the back wall, but it is on the back. There's just a small slot on the top of the unit. Please confirm for me that this is what top-vent should look like. (I really don't want to discover I have the wrong unit.)

Here are a few photos ...

Top of Unit (see small slit)

Rear Opening (a little hard to see; sorry, it's an awkward space to try and get a picture of)

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Post #: 67

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 10:56:20 AM

AngryPrez

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It would certainly be ironic if after all this you received the wrong unit, and they had to send a replacement. :)

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Post #: 68

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 11:02:14 AM

wineismylife

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From: Arlington, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

What make and model cooling unit do you have?

OK, here's where I look a fool. (Probably not the only place but ...) Umm, the one that came with the unit?

CellarPro 1800 QT top vent. I admit I didn't really do any research there, other than knowing I needed a top vent. Just answered the dealer's questions and one of the benefits of Le Cache was supposed to be that they didn't up charge for quieter cooling units.

That unit should be fairly quiet. I would load it up and see if it quiets any. Bear in mind it'll take 48-72 hours after you load it before the wine inside is cool enough to keep the unit from cycling as much. Once it stops cycling as much it'll annoy you less.

Yes, I would expect the venting to be in the back instead of right in your face as you open the door in the front. You might double check with the manufacturer how far from the wall they recommend a rear venting unit be placed.

I think as time goes on you'll get used to the sound this makes just like you would the fridge cutting in an out, icemaker dropping ice, heat blower cycling, etc... Right now it is a distinctly different sound than you're used to hearing.

My two cents worth.

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Joe

Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone.

MyBlog @ http://www.wineismylife.net/

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Post #: 69

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 11:13:05 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

What make and model cooling unit do you have?

OK, here's where I look a fool. (Probably not the only place but ...) Umm, the one that came with the unit?

CellarPro 1800 QT top vent. I admit I didn't really do any research there, other than knowing I needed a top vent. Just answered the dealer's questions and one of the benefits of Le Cache was supposed to be that they didn't up charge for quieter cooling units.

That unit should be fairly quiet. I would load it up and see if it quiets any. Bear in mind it'll take 48-72 hours after you load it before the wine inside is cool enough to keep the unit from cycling as much. Once it stops cycling as much it'll annoy you less.

Yes, I would expect the venting to be in the back instead of right in your face as you open the door in the front. You might double check with the manufacturer how far from the wall they recommend a rear venting unit be placed.

I think as time goes on you'll get used to the sound this makes just like you would the fridge cutting in an out, icemaker dropping ice, heat blower cycling, etc... Right now it is a distinctly different sound than you're used to hearing.

My two cents worth.

I don't disagree a bit and had the "maybe we just have to get used to it" feeling.

But it better be a top venting unit, because that's what we ordered and paid for so that we COULD put it against a wall; and I went back this AM to make sure it was stated on invoice as such, and it is. (There's still about 3" between wall and unit, but that's not enough for rear-venting to work properly.)

That's why I posted the pics, to make sure someone who knows better than I can confirm that, yep, that's what a top vent looks like. :)

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Post #: 70

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 5:15:54 PM

annerk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

Serious Operational Question ...

How loud is this supposed to be? We haven't had time to fill it yet, but I did plug it in and turn it on to make sure it would get down to temperature. (At this point, based on how it's gone so far, figuring now that we've got this far, it probably wouldn't work.) Well, it does work, as in cool, but how loud is this thing supposed to be? You can hear it from every room of the house, minus perhaps the master closet, and we have a fairly decent-sized house (4,000 sq. ft.) When we're in the Great Room it's roughly three times as loud as our fridge, which is in the same room as we are, while the wine fridge is two rooms away. That doesn't seem right. Also seemed to kick on A LOT, even though doors were never opened even once after I pushed the power button. It doesn't run long, but at least once an hour it seems to turn itself on and off, seemingly for no reason, even though the ambient temp in the room it's in, is barely higher than the fridge temp, so I can't imagine it needs to do much cooling to maintain temp. (Room thermostat set at 62; fridge set for 58-62.) What's gonna happen when summer comes and the room is 75-78?

So, now, I'm worried again.

All three of my coolers (none is a La Cache) are quiet. I might hear them in the room they are in, and one through an open door in the next room, but none are intrusive, and at their loudest they are no louder than when the central A/C kicks on.

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RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 5:19:45 PM

annerk

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From: Central Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

That is a problem. Wine cooling units and cellars are a world apart from regular refrigerators. A wine cooling unit needs the thermal mass of the wine and bottles to help maintain a constant temperature. If the unit is empty it with cycle frequently. Frankly I'm surprised it is only cycling once per hour. Before I filled my cellar to 75% my two cooling units cycled several times per hour.

My GE Profile is less than 1/3 full and silent. If I hear it "sigh" once or twice a day, it's a lot. And it's in my kitchen (which is open to the family room) the warmest spot of the house and where I spend the majority of my waking hours, so I can say that with certainty.

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Post #: 72

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 6:07:00 PM

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my friend Steve (S2) has a La Cache I think.
It's quiet

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Post #: 73

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/13/2013 7:27:03 PM

wineismylife

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OK. No problem. I give. Send it back.

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Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone.

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Post #: 74

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/14/2013 4:39:23 AM

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From: Mt Pleasant, SC
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Sorry to hear about all your problems

Nothing aggravates me more than a lack of respect from anyone that I deal with... needless to say my life is filled with aggravation.
I purchased my Le Cache Wine Vault 3100 directly from Le Cache in April 27, 2009. It was shipped apx 10 days later & delivered 10-14 days after shipment to SC. I placed it in my den where I watch tv and spend a great deal of time. The first week or so I would notice when the cooling unit would kick in and it bothered me somewhat... now I do not even notice it. However, it was never so loud that I could hear it in the next room and I have the older style cooling unit which is supposedly louder.
I also have the top vent option... the best I can tell from your pics, yours is a top vent. When the unit is running, put your hand above the hole on the top of the cabinet closest to the front. You should feel the air coming from that vent.
Again, sorry to hear about all your problems, my purchase and subsequent 4.5 years of ownership have been very satisfying. I have had no problems whatsoever and would not hesitate at all to purchase again from Le Cache.

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Post #: 75

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/14/2013 5:42:38 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S2

Sorry to hear about all your problems Nothing aggravates me more than a lack of respect from anyone that I deal with... needless to say my life is filled with aggravation.
I purchased my Le Cache Wine Vault 3100 directly from Le Cache in April 27, 2009. It was shipped apx 10 days later & delivered 10-14 days after shipment to SC. I placed it in my den where I watch tv and spend a great deal of time. The first week or so I would notice when the cooling unit would kick in and it bothered me somewhat... now I do not even notice it. However, it was never so loud that I could hear it in the next room and I have the older style cooling unit which is supposedly louder.
I also have the top vent option... the best I can tell from your pics, yours is a top vent. When the unit is running, put your hand above the hole on the top of the cabinet closest to the front. You should feel the air coming from that vent.
Again, sorry to hear about all your problems, my purchase and subsequent 4.5 years of ownership have been very satisfying. I have had no problems whatsoever and would not hesitate at all to purchase again from Le Cache.

Thank you very much, especially for the confirmation. That's a big relief! I had also emailed Le Cache about the noise issue and they said there was supposed to be a vent hood or something like that (perhaps saying name incorrectly), which will reduce noise. They are supposed to send it on Monday. Until then, I'm going to try and get some wine in it this weekend, in between baking binges, and see if that also helps the noise/running time/etc.

EDIT: I should also add that Le Cache did offer to extend my warranty, in lieu of the gift certificate they proffered here, which I think was quite nice and actually helpful. Vintage Cellars, on the other hand, didn't respond to me at all when I said the wine glasses might be a nice gesture, but were in no way compensatory for what we went through with the delay, delivery and damage. I have asked them for a 10% refund, which is basically the shipping costs plus about $100. I think that's VERY fair given the one-month time delay from original promised delivery, the absolute debacle that was our delivery when it finally happened (fewer men than paid for, damage to our cabinet and home, bringing in our own people to move it ourselves) and the time and effort we have had to spend getting this up and running. Based on their lack of response Vintage Cellars, apparently, does not believe that's a fair request, but I do not plan to let this matter stand as is.

< Message edited by markandsusanw -- 12/14/2013 6:18:46 AM >

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Post #: 76

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/14/2013 11:41:09 AM

wine247365

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M&S...lots of great comments here. I'll add my two (or three) cents. My hearing is very good, so I'm very sensitive to noise. My setting...my house is a '68 vintage with low ceilings, raised foundation, and hardwood floors. We placed the wine cooler in our TV room/den in a corner that has an equally high TV console unit on the side that's not against the wall. Therefore, I could describe its position as like being in an alcove, which I feared would work like an echo chamber magnifying the sound. My unit also has a top vent, holds 320 bottles, and I bought it ~2 years ago.

Based upon a web suggestion as a cheap means of sound absorption, I nailed carpet padding on the wall directly behind the unit. (You may be able to find other ideas, too). I had to do this before filling it since there's no way I'd be able to move it afterwards to add the padding. Since I can't access the the padding to test if it's effective or not, I really can't say if it helps, but I figured it couldn't hurt. If you do it, just cut it so that it's not visible and no one will even know it's there. Also, with regards to wall spacing, my manufacturer suggested a 6" space between the unit and any adjoining walls, no matter where the vent is placed. Another idea, again from web research (and maybe CT), would be to incrementally add bottles a hundred or two at time. Once your unit has stabilized at the desired temp, add more. This will help ease the strain on the cooling unit as you load it. If you don't have enough bottles of wine, you can always add any kind of liquid to mass to the inside volume. Lastly, I recall that when my unit first arrived, I was surprised at how "loud" it was. But, really, it's not, it's just that it's a brand new noise in your house to which your hearing has not yet become accustomed (kind of like house guests). It's not as loud as the air coming thru our heating vents. I noticed the noise a lot for the first few weeks/months, but after a while, I found I usually only notice it when it comes on or off. My sensitive hearing is now accustomed to it, it's a become proverbial white noise.

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Post #: 77

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/15/2013 6:14:10 AM

markandsusanw

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We did get it filled yesterday. All day project. I know capacity claims are always on the high side, but with only 544 racked spots and very little other open space in the cabinet, I'm very curious as to where Le Cache claims you can put the other 78 bottles they say this thing holds, and I've got all 750 mLs.

< Message edited by markandsusanw -- 12/15/2013 6:21:14 AM >

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Post #: 78

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/15/2013 9:11:54 AM

wadcorp

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Filled? Did the door alignment get fixed?

.

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Post #: 79

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/15/2013 9:16:13 AM

markandsusanw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wadcorp

Filled? Did the door alignment get fixed?

Yep. You're behind on posts. That was so last Thursday (see: https://www.cellartracker.com/forum/fb.asp?m=304808 ). ;)

By the way, it still seems REALLY loud to me.

And, for whatever it's worth, I'm definitely cursed by the wine gods because even CellarTracker suddenly didn't like me and blocked access in the middle of my cellar re-do. Didn't realize how much I relied on CT until it was gone. Yikes!

Shout out to Eric for the prompt help getting me back up and running. Contrary to the software's belief, apparently, I am not a robot. Really. Ignore that clanging and dropped bolt over there.

By the way, found about six bottles I didn't know/think I had. Lost another 30 that were in my inventory but don't actually exist. Very much looking forward to being able to select any of our wine, anytime we want, without having to dig through unlabeled boxes or opening our "cellars of doom" where wine was so scrunched in you were as libel to break a bottle as drink one.

Filled Cellar. Not as grand as most of yours, I know, but it feels like an accomplishment to get to this point ...

Cheers!

< Message edited by markandsusanw -- 12/15/2013 10:47:17 AM >

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Post #: 80

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/15/2013 9:20:08 AM

wadcorp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

The hinge itself, by the way, didn't have to be removed after all. He was able to put some spacers under the door and it pushed the pin up to where it should be and the door no longer sagged. An easier fix than he'd feared so, yay, finally some good news.

Totally missed his post from 12 December. Good deal. At least something that went right.

Still, don't let them off the hook.

.

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RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/16/2013 9:14:39 AM

markandsusanw

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Noise question again (sorry). I downloaded a free decibel meter for my iPhone--so, disclaimer, these numbers may be wildly inaccurate, but they should at least be relative since I used the same flawed system to test both--just to see if the loudness was my imagination, or real. Well, the filled cooler is coming in somewhere between 75-80 db according to this, while my running fridge is high 50s, low 60s. That seems a pretty big discrepancy. I put it up next to other things and while the washer and dryer registered significantly louder (in the 100s) the dishwasher, which, admittedly, is a super-quiet model, was in the low 40s, and my other, small stand-alone wine coolers were in the high 40s. Also, it's a higher-pitched, whine kind of sound and not the low hum I'm used to with a fridge.

Someone upthread mentioned having this in the room they watch TV in. That would be impossible with my unit.

I guess what I'm trying to suss out is, is there something potentially wrong with the cooling unit, or is this just the nature of the beast?

< Message edited by markandsusanw -- 12/16/2013 11:17:01 AM >

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Post #: 82

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/16/2013 10:00:13 AM

mc2 wines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

We did get it filled yesterday. All day project. I know capacity claims are always on the high side, but with only 544 racked spots and very little other open space in the cabinet, I'm very curious as to where Le Cache claims you can put the other 78 bottles they say this thing holds, and I've got all 750 mLs.

If it makes you feel better, our units theoretically hold 200, and in reality we have a hard time getting 100 in. I think the big differential is having shelves rather than just stacking all of the bottles in the fridges (although also believe that just stacking would be completely infeasible for the wine fridges that we use for every day use).

Glad to hear it's starting to work out although the noise issue would be a concern. Our Eurocaves are quieter than dishwasher, other fridges, etc.

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Post #: 83

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/16/2013 10:50:56 AM

motoring

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From: Des Moines, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

We did get it filled yesterday. All day project. I know capacity claims are always on the high side, but with only 544 racked spots and very little other open space in the cabinet, I'm very curious as to where Le Cache claims you can put the other 78 bottles they say this thing holds, and I've got all 750 mLs.

the final spots are in that open space, at the top... start stacking. that is where the stuff goes that won't be opened for a long time.

< Message edited by motoring -- 12/16/2013 10:51:20 AM >

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Post #: 84

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/21/2013 4:47:58 PM

markandsusanw

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Well, it appears that an easy solution isn't going to happen. Vintage Cellars insists they've gone "above and beyond". The company owner sent me an email detailing how great all of his people are, and what a fantastic job they did helping me, then offering a lot of excuses for why people hadn't followed though as promised. He did say how sorry they are this happened, but the upshot was that I can go jump in a lake because they weren't going to do squat, and I should be grateful they even fixed my cabinet at all. (I'm paraphrasing that last part, but it's an accurate assessment of the tone.)

I would feel uncomfortable posting his writing without permission, but I kid-you-not that his verbatim advice to me was to watch Forest Gump in order to gain perspective in my life. Because that's relevant. Or useful.

Le Cache has offered to send a vent hood to lessen the noise, but I haven't received anything yet. I was told it would be sent last Monday. If that did happen, it has yet to arrive.

Not happy. Not by a long shot.

Other than the noise issue, I am basically pleased with the cabinet. I love being able to find my wine when I want to (yay!) and it actually is a pretty piece of furniture. And, despite Vintage Cellars' insistence, I absolutely do have perspective, that this is not the end of the world. Far from it in fact. But that also doesn't mean I'm going to pay them full price for what we went through, plus the damage to the cabinet and my house that occurred. I have perspective, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid.

A "great" (totally fictional) person once said: stupid is as stupid does, and only someone stupid would allow a business to rip them off. And, at this point, that's what I feel is happening here.

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Post #: 85

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/21/2013 5:36:48 PM

cjsavino

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Wonder if your tile floors are helping to act as an echo chamber. Sometimes sound needs something to absorb it.

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Post #: 86

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/22/2013 8:38:11 AM

argovb

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This is Ben Argov, CEO of Le Cache.

On behalf of my company and out distributors, let me apologize here - this is absolutely not the experience we want our clients to have. Our goal is to make our clients deliriously happy with their purchase, and we clearly do that in the overwhelming majority of cases, as evidenced by numerous instances of repeat and multiple purchases. But here we and our distribution chain fell short of that standard.

On our end, we're looking at every step of our process, from manufacturing to distribution to delivery, to understand what went wrong and to minimize the chance that it will ever happen again.

We want to make this right. In addition to the repairs provided, last week we offered -

- Free extended warranty (from 2 to 5 years)
- Free sound hood (shipped last week)
- Reimbursement of shipping costs in full

In this instance, the customer has told us that she would prefer a 10% refund instead of the shipping reimbursement, so as a gesture of goodwill we will add that to the mix as well.

Again, our apologies, this is not the experience we want our customers to have.

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(in reply to cjsavino)

Post #: 87

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/22/2013 8:55:35 AM

wadcorp

Posts: 9336
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

Ben: Very much appreciate your posting here. I know Susan has been very disappointed & concerned about the lack of feedback at times, but this is a good step.

Something that might have prevented this entire episode would have been to have vetted the delivery/installation crew. The damage to the unit & the customers floor tiles came from them. Period. Whether that responsibility falls on Vintage or La Cache is for you guys to figure out, not Susan.

Granted, the unit was considerably late, but frustration with that might have been lessened with frequent email updates.

.

_____________________________

"Wine is light held together by moisture."
— Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

(in reply to argovb)

Post #: 88

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/22/2013 9:08:14 AM

AngryPrez

Posts: 878
Joined: 3/24/2012
From: Carolina Beach, NC!
Status: offline

Appreciate Ben posting here as well - I know all too well the challenges of managing/controlling distribution channels (i.e., you really only have the illusion of control). Especially when it comes to the things that salespeople say. :)

Kudos to Le Cache for stepping up to the plate here and assuming responsibility for what honestly seems to be more the fault of their distributor and/or delivery firm. That is the kind of client-focused service approach that really builds goodwill.

10% refund plus all the rest looks to me like a more-than-fair resolution, and I hope you can visit with your distribution partners and make them pay for some of this.

_____________________________

I like to drink wine more than I used to. Anyway, I'm drinking more. - Don Corleone

(in reply to wadcorp)

Post #: 89

RE: First Vinotemp and now La Cache? ... *#$@ Seriously?!? - 12/22/2013 9:09:07 AM

mjobtx

Posts: 1250
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Plano, TX
Status: offline

Ben, we collectors are always happy when someone stands behind their work and their product meets or exceeds reasonable expectations. As a fellow collector with several cabinets of my own, I believe Susan's expectations were reasonable and that you are stepping up. Not sure I can say that for your distributor, Vintage Cellars.

Thank you.

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PlanoWino

(in reply to wadcorp)

Post #: 90