2020 Vieux Château Certan

Community Tasting Note

13 comments have been posted

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  6/22/2021 4:12:00 PM - Watcheslover- I am headed to Bordeaux in a few weeks (can’t wait) and VCC among others is on the schedule but the EP will be released before I have a chance to taste. Where do you feel this rates compared to other vintages - and which of the vintages has a more modern lush profile (2017, 2019 or 2020)? Merci!

• Comment posted by watcheslover:

  6/23/2021 1:31:00 AM - Hello LiteItOnFire,
  To answer your questions, without hesitation I would choose the 2019 for the quality / price ratio, whether to drink great wines that are not too expensive or for investment. If it's just for drinking, 2017 is still the cheapest but it won't take much value because there are too many great vintages around. But for me the best of all remain the 2016s which are in my opinion in the trilogy of the most fabulous vintages of modern times (1961, 2005, 2016) and cheaper than 2018 and some 2020. I loved the prices of the firsts outputs of the 2020s (Cheval Blanc) with minimal and logical increases but the more we move forward the more it becomes crazy with increases of up to 50% (Palmer, Las Cases, Cos ...) and personally I find that unforgivable even if we put a special label for 50 years of this or 20 years of that. I think VCC will follow suit. I tasted it with La Conseillante, both are splendid but they will explode the prices of 2019 for sure. If you like this style, I advise you to jump on Clos Fourtet and Valandraud which are of the same quality at much lower prices and better investment plans in my opinion.
  For the modern flamboyant, I would also say 2019 because 2020 and magnificent but more on the freshness and the quality of the terroir (clay and limestone, Merlot and Cabernet Francs are the best this year).
  There you go

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  6/23/2021 1:44:00 AM - Wow Watcheslover thank you for all of that great information. I did jump on Cheval and Petit as their increase felt fair but Cos, Palmer, etc and now this morning with HB it’s a hard pill to swallow… and if people keep buying it’s hard to blame them as Margaux has already sold through the initial releases in many of the stores I have seen online.
  
  I so hope you are wrong on La Cons and VCC as I love the wines but can’t stomach the crazy increases.
  
  I love Valandraud and have purchased a good amount in 2020 but have not had or purchased CF. Thank you for the suggestion.

• Comment posted by watcheslover:

  6/23/2021 2:05:00 AM - Try the Clos Fourtet 2020, you will love it.
  And if you want a big investment tip
  1) Figeac 2019 (FA-BU-LOUS)
  2) Canon 2020, 2019 and 2017
  3) Figeac 2020 (depending on the release price)
  Next year there will be the new classification of Saint-Emilion and these are the 2 most cited wines to move up the category)
  
  And don't forget the Carmes H-B 2017 incredibly underrated (like Calon Segur 2014)

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  6/23/2021 2:12:00 AM - Thank you my CT friend! I am a buyer of Figeac 2019 for sure based on your enthusiasm last year, - and am headed there in a few weeks. I am also a buyer of Canon… I have been curious why Valandraud doesn’t get the same acclaim as Canon but I do buy both.
  
  Carmes I bought pretty good size in ‘19 & ‘2020 but honestly didn’t buy much of anything in 2017 but will search it out.
  
  It’s funny since I have been unable to truly get a sense of ‘19 vs ‘20, I was under the impression ‘19 was more classic and ‘20 more modern… it seems you feel the opposite or just in a few wines? Thank you for always having such great knowledge and your willingness to share as lockdown has made it so hard to learn.

• Comment posted by watcheslover:

  6/23/2021 2:53:00 AM - For Valandraud, I think it is because it is less consistent in quality in the "little" years and often too expensive. In my opinion everything is top since 2018 and it is well in its place in 1st GC B. On the other hand, wines like Canon and Carmes HB have not stopped improving in quality, whatever the vintage, all this at price. wise. But the most important thing is, that they understood the climatic phenomenon before everyone else and adapted their wines to it, especially by increasing the portion of Cabernet Franc which supports heat better and brings back a lot of freshness. In my humble opinion, it is THE redeeming grape of the future in Bordeaux, if we don't want to end up planting Moroccan grape varieties or Chateauneuf du Pape.
  In my humble opinion these 2 wines are at least on par with the greatest 1er crûs of their appellation and will fade less quickly thanks to this freshness, especially for 2018 which has too much of everything.
  Lafleur is the largest of all and it contains around 50% CF. And Petrus has just planted it but it won't be in this wine for a long time

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  6/23/2021 8:29:00 AM - Great perspective- thank you for sharing!

• Comment posted by watcheslover:

  6/24/2021 3:55:00 AM - As far as "modern lush" is concerned, I admit that I don't quite understand these words, which for me rarely go well together (not like Michelle and ma belle, in any case). I think 2019 and especially 2018 are lush profiles "because they happened naturally, without much help from the winegrower and the sun gave them flamboyant fruit or even exaggerated jam for my taste (2018). 2020 for me is much more modern in the sense that they are more wines "de terroir" (classic) but with a big intervention of the great cellar masters, who managed to maintain the degrees, improved the containers (less oak new, bigger barrels, ceramic jars ...) for a result that is NOT ONLY on the fruit.The wines are more floral, more saline too.
  In short, I think it's the fight between finesse and power, European taste against American taste ?, some prefer the 2010 and 2016 (me too) and others the 2009 and 2018. Who is right? Each his own.
  Apart from that, I think (if I understood the words correctly) that the right banks are indeed "modern lushes" but not really the left banks.
  Finally, if you are interested in "cheaper but not very speculative" purchases, I advise you to buy 2012 in right bank (fabulous Petrus, Lafleur) including an almost free marvel, Le Clos l'Eglise to taste absolutely. And the 2014 left bank, especially the Saint Estephe and Pauillacs.
  And of course, all 2017.
  Yours truly

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  6/24/2021 11:56:00 AM - Thank you WL! I made up that word combo which you got the gist of- not a manipulation rather a purposeful direction. My generic vintage of choice are ‘09, ‘10,15,16,18 all for different reasons.
  
  I haven’t gravitated to the better priced ‘14/‘17 but I am not giving up hope just yet!

• Comment posted by watcheslover:

  6/28/2021 4:12:00 AM - Hello LIOTF, if you want to make a really great deal, buy a lot of Larcis Ducasse 2019, it's somptuous (re-tasted yesterday) in the Chateau and several magnificent noises run here and there...
  I wanted to buy a lot, which is very rare for me, but I only got 6 bottles.

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  7/2/2021 12:27:00 PM - Thanks for the suggestion- sounds super yummy!

• Comment posted by LiteItOnFire:

  7/16/2021 7:28:00 AM - WL- I had this on 15th of July which is almost 4 weeks after you at the Chateau, and it is incredible. I don’t have any other way to describe it. While you and I lean in different directions on our palates I can say this wine is spectacular regardless of style but does favor my palate style a bit more than you, perhaps. Wow.

• Comment posted by Best QPR Tracker:

  1/26/2022 1:55:00 AM - Hey, very interesting conversation here! And if you allow me to step in late, I would add that I'm surprised that one puts Clos Fourtet and Valandraud away on the same shelf of style. For me Valandraud, yet always more expensive at the time of En Primeur campaigns, is always more elegant, more epicure and more obvious in greatness and purity, while Clos Fourtet is more extracted. If I had to polarize my description of both, I would qualify Valandraud of lace while Clos Fourtet of beefy - no offense to those who like the latter, I don't dislike it neither.