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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/30/2014 6:10:11 PM   
khmark7

 

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Neighbor asked me if I spray my grapes with herbicide....

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Post #: 481
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 3:05:12 AM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		I will post 2 pictures. Picture 1 is a fairly healthy first row closest to my house that I cut some of the crazy FG shoots and such and I have 2 of my original 12 planted Chard vines, and they are okay, but one lost a main stalk. The second and third rows look bare. I lost a lot. I am trying to save 2 stalks part way towards the ground of Chardonnay. I of the older PG survived with some damage but budding slowly, another newly planted, last year, PG is growing a stalk from the graft, so I am happy about that. 3rd row all the PG are dead or trying to regrow from the base graft once again, which took 3 years to get fruit. I am incredibly frustrated. Late frosts suck, as do sub-zero winters, and I am close to the Lake that never thoroughly freezes. The second picture is just a clump of stalks I cut this morning, some of them are 6 year old. I am saddened and frustrated.
,
,


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Post #: 482
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 5:07:13 AM   
khmark7

 

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From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Dave - It looks like you have a micro climate in your backyard with some vines surviving in one area while others struggle just a few feet away. I am giving my Frontenac Gris/Frontenac Rouge almost 8 feet of growing room along a 4-5 foot top wire in most cases. Ideally I would make the wires a little higher in some places but I have some restrictions living in the city and a few of my rows are close together which makes walking around sometimes a challenge. Already thinking that next year I will prune to spurs with the Frontenac.

The vines in my front yard are growing on a combination of low 3 feet tall wires set parallel with my 3 foot picket fence, while others are growing up wire trellis's set along the same picket fence. My hope is that they will make a nice border. I need to be creative until I have more land to work with.

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Post #: 483
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 8:52:01 AM   
champagneinhand

 

Posts: 10282
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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		I totally have micro-climate. My back row was in solid ice from the drainage swail all Winter. If I could redo thing I would have FG in the back row. PG in the middle and Chardonnay in the closest row. I just replaced when vines died and where I have room. It was sad pulling thick dead stalks out. If next Winter is bad I will rip out or try to transplant and surviving PG closer to the house. I originally put them in back because in Fall we get weird morning fog in the swail and thought I might get some noble rot..

Again if next Winter is a beast I will most likely pull my fencing system. Buy10" poles and have them up 7' high and stretch my entire yard giving me 8 vines per row for a total of 24. Chard or Chenin up close. Riesling in the middle and maybe buy Vidal or keep the FG in back. The FG also are susceptible to botrytis.

< Message edited by champagneinhand -- 6/1/2014 8:40:16 PM >

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Post #: 484
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 7:21:41 PM   
khmark7

 

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From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Dave - If you are looking for varieties that might develop Bot then I might try Seyval Blanc or Vignoles. Frontenac Gris & Vidal both are very resistant to Bot.

St. Pepin makes a nice dessert wine, and I've also had some from Vignoles. St. Pepin blends well with La Crosse and La Crosse is a good pollinator for St. Pepin. Swenson White is also good for dessert wines, although resistant to Bot. Might be a good back row option instead or in addition to FG. Luckily you do have plenty of options.



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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 7:38:11 PM   
khmark7

 

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Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		I will add that St. Pepin is very similar and reminds me of Hungarian Tokaj when made as an ice wine (more honey & apricot) As a dry wine I have always had it blended with La Crosse and the taste profile is quite different.

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Post #: 486
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/1/2014 8:42:41 PM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		I have had vignoles and it doesn't really do it for me. I have had a very good version too, and for a few sips it was quite pleasant, but couldn't really do a whole split. I thought FG was susceptible to the noble rot, especially when exposed to fog. Maybe I read this wrong, when I purchased these but they said it made great tropically flavored dessert wines. Decent enough acidity.

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Post #: 487
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/2/2014 5:16:11 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Have yet to see a FG dessert wine. Sparkling yes, Rosé yes, dry wine yes.

The best Vignoles are grown in Missouri and southern Illinois IMO. This grape is used for sparkling wines in Michigan. NY??

Been a few days since I walked the yard and WOW the vines are still growing. Easily 3-4 foot canes that are now arching downward.

Cabernet Sauvignon is back in the game with a few shoots and my potted Merlot & Cabernet Franc look great.

Hot humid weather with moderate rainfall making me nervous and will probably spray again tomorrow morning early.

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Post #: 488
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/6/2014 5:47:43 AM   
khmark7

 

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Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Continued rampant growth. Spending a lot of time pinching back the ends of shoots and directing growth either onto or away from wires. Newer vines coming along slowly, my main worry will be the Japanese beetles in a few weeks. Hoping the smaller vines have enough leaf growth by then because last year the Japanese beetles weakened a few smaller vines so much that they never prepared themselves for our winter.

Most varieties now flowering, so one would assume harvest in September for most varieties. Concord probably late Sept or October....which will cut it close with the 1st frost date. Flowering appears to only be one week behind schedule in my yard.

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Post #: 489
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/18/2014 3:24:09 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		How are people's vines coming along? Chicago has had a good amount of rain with warmer than usual temps. If anything I'm worried about mildew with the increasing humidity and temps. Recent rain has washed off the last of my sulfur treatments so I need to find a dry period to reapply and stay a step ahead of the mildew.

Grape clusters are growing in size while some of the vine growth has slowed down. Most of the grapes are still pea sized but the grape clusters are noticeably larger than last year as the vines get more established.

Japanese beetles should be coming out soon.....destructive little bastards.

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"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

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Post #: 490
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/18/2014 4:43:27 PM   
BobMilton

 

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: online 		Well my vineyard (that's short for one vine in yard!) is but two years old, so no grapes yet. Hopefully next year. (It's a Tablas Creek Syrah in non-optimal soil).

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Post #: 491
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2014 6:46:38 PM   
khmark7

 

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Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Japanese beetle spotting today....exactly the same date as last summer.

Observed a few berries with black rot, so did an additional spray this morning. Otherwise just the usual rampant growth. Grape clusters on a few varieties are already at or nearing the stage where the berries are touching each other and the clusters become quite compact. The downside to growing over 30 varieties is that you notice how each variety does just a little something different, and I am still learning how to best grow each of these varieties.

My young vines are a mixed bag. Several are showing promise but others are still very tiny and may not even reach the fruiting wire this year. I did find a Steuben vine growing from the ground up after getting frozen out last winter. Hopefully it can escape the beetles and establish itself before the fall. Working with the young vines can be fun, almost like children.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2014 8:17:11 PM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		I need to spray for fungus and the beetles, but I don't care if the go at the FG as that stuff grows like mad. I don't want them to eat up my stalks that are regrowing, but I wasn't feeling good, so hopefully tomorrow morning and that will be that for a couple weeks. Our beetles came about 2 weeks after your did. The Chard flowered a couple weeks ago an tiny little clusters are on the 2 healthy vines, but pretty minimal stuff. The FG is overpacked with fruit, but I will thin soon enough as it seems to be a twice a week thing.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/29/2014 7:38:21 PM   
khmark7

 

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Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Dunno, but not planning on thinning my fruit this year due to the excess rainfall. The idea being that the fruit will hopefully slow down vegetative growth, and I will just let the fruit hang a little longer in the fall to fully ripen. At veraison I will check the clusters and remove those that are behind schedule, but I'm fine with 2 clusters per shoot and don't expect to have any problems. VERY curious to see how many lbs of fruit each vine will have.

Berry size is very large for this time of year.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/29/2014 9:33:28 PM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		sprayed today as it was hot and humid. it seemed that after about 10 minutes, thundershowers rocked the area, tearing apart the area of my patio wight the packed sand underneath. The products say that they are waterproof but I don't think they had this serious soaking and wind in mind. It will be interesting to look after a week or so. seeing some interesting bug munching. Not only some beetle damage but fruit flies that have left little holes in the bigger leaves. Perhaps I need to put more ground insecticide down. Again not expecting much fruit other than FG and a bit of Chardonnay, but trying to rebuild and those leaves on new stalks are very important to keep viable during the growing season.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/30/2014 4:41:13 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		F'n Derecho coming through Chicago. This tropical **** needs to calm down. I will need to spray again soon. Mildew pressure making me nervous.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/1/2014 7:58:52 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		7.5 inches of rain in Chicago for the month of June....

Was replanting an apple tree and dug out a few buckets of pure clay & limestone. Mixed with sand and used to fill in a potter for growing a Tannat vine I plan to order for next year. Should be interesting.

Planted my Merlot in my front yard, next to rhubarb....figured that in my clay soil in will do just fine. Will NEED to make sure it is snow covered this winter. Everybody should have Merlot growing in their front yard...

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 6:08:59 AM   
Old Doug

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

The downside to growing over 30 varieties is that you notice how each variety does just a little something different, and I am still learning how to best grow each of these varieties.



Holy ****, Karl - 30?! Well, I've always said that if you're going to do something, don't do it half-a$$ed... Right on, Man.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 1:40:04 PM   
BobMilton

 

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

7.5 inches of rain in Chicago for the month of June....

Was replanting an apple tree and dug out a few buckets of pure clay & limestone. Mixed with sand and used to fill in a potter for growing a Tannat vine I plan to order for next year. Should be interesting.

Planted my Merlot in my front yard, next to rhubarb....figured that in my clay soil in will do just fine. Will NEED to make sure it is snow covered this winter. Everybody should have Merlot growing in their front yard...

You got more rain in Chicago in June than LA got for the entire dang season! Send the excess our way.

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Post #: 499
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 3:00:04 PM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		I don't know about planting this Merlot varietal this far North as every vine of the varietal was wiped out this Winter. However I just opened a bottle of my most recent Backyard Blanc and its decent, waxy fruits, chenin fruits, wine sulphur and fizz, which I can't understand at all seeing as I degassed the wine and added potassium sorbate to kill all yeast. Pulling the cork almost broke my arm and a waiters corkscrew. The ah-so teased it out, and am expo ting a vicious hairspray hangover tomorrow.


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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 3:30:20 PM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

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From: Cowiche, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton


quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

7.5 inches of rain in Chicago for the month of June....

Was replanting an apple tree and dug out a few buckets of pure clay & limestone. Mixed with sand and used to fill in a potter for growing a Tannat vine I plan to order for next year. Should be interesting.

Planted my Merlot in my front yard, next to rhubarb....figured that in my clay soil in will do just fine. Will NEED to make sure it is snow covered this winter. Everybody should have Merlot growing in their front yard...

You got more rain in Chicago in June than LA got for the entire dang season! Send the excess our way.
7.5 is about the ANNUAL total rainfall for Yakima.   Thank God for the Cascade Range snowpack, rivers, and irrigation ditches.

I'm working on a Growing my Own Grapes project and will have something going in spring 2015.   We're starting small with about  1700 vines.    

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 3:35:42 PM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23493
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From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		And goats?

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 5:31:25 PM   
champagneinhand

 

Posts: 10282
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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		Kinda sparkling wine type of stuff a quick happy feeling then it evaporates just as fast. Massive bug feeding in the vines today. Everything is all of the wires from crazy winds and thunderstorms, but I put most of things right. I only have to really watch 6-7 vines that may produce fruit. However our raspberries are exploding everywhere with great big deep red berries and prickly vines that should produce enough fruit throughout fall.

Good Luck with 1700 vines. I hope the aren't fervent growers or susceptible to temps, bugs and humidity, though I know the humidity part isn't a problem in your area. Its a daily thing though, walking the vines and so much changes. I can't imagine doing 1700 vines part-time. The Japanese Beetles would have you for dinner here. Even the apple and cherry people have air-sprays and tractors that go through the trees almost daily, and hired hands keeping their eyes on everything. Uncle Jimmy (Mrs.CiH's uncle) has trees marked off for family picking only. We were just out there last Sunday. The sweet rainier like yellow and red cherries are just coming on line there, so $3 a pound for 2-3 weeks locally then back up to $7 per pound. We get produce raped here, unless we hit up the farmers markets. A must do.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/2/2014 7:25:54 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisinSunnyside

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobMilton


quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

7.5 inches of rain in Chicago for the month of June....

Was replanting an apple tree and dug out a few buckets of pure clay & limestone. Mixed with sand and used to fill in a potter for growing a Tannat vine I plan to order for next year. Should be interesting.

Planted my Merlot in my front yard, next to rhubarb....figured that in my clay soil in will do just fine. Will NEED to make sure it is snow covered this winter. Everybody should have Merlot growing in their front yard...

You got more rain in Chicago in June than LA got for the entire dang season! Send the excess our way.
7.5 is about the ANNUAL total rainfall for Yakima.   Thank God for the Cascade Range snowpack, rivers, and irrigation ditches.

I'm working on a Growing my Own Grapes project and will have something going in spring 2015.   We're starting small with about  1700 vines.    


1700 vines is about 2 acres with vinifera spacing. Grapes grown around here (Illinois) need more spacing, but they can also ripen larger crops.

Merlot can survive around here, but it MUST be insulated from the winter extremes, and snow is the best (and cheapest) way. Michigan was a good example of this. They had late winter temps just like Chicago and the vines beneath snow survived just fine. I will have to lower the fruiting canes in the winter and cover those with snow and other materials just like I do my Cabernet Sauvignon.

For those keeping track. Yes, it did rain again here today....


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Post #: 504
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/4/2014 4:24:47 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Good luck to our friends trying to grow grapes along the eastern coast with this hurricane thingy in July. WTF?

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 505
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/4/2014 12:22:15 PM   
champagneinhand

 

Posts: 10282
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From: Upstate New York, California born.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Good luck to our friends trying to grow grapes along the eastern coast with this hurricane thingy in July. WTF?



My thoughts exactly WTF? Atlantic hurricanes that go up the East Coast suck. I really it goes out to sea and dies. so many people we know spend time in North Carolina's Capes and outer islands, the beaches of Virginia, Maryland, The Jersey Shore down by Cape May. My BILs family goes to road island in August, and if the canes are frequent this year that could be scrubbed. NYC and Boston just don't need another beating by Mother Nature. I always get the rain from the edges, but hopefully none as big as Sandy. That was almost 1000 miles wide at its peak.

Sunny and relatively cool today.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 506
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/4/2014 2:45:45 PM   
peeks13

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 10/7/2009
From: Wilmette, IL
Status: offline 		Need some expertise here in Chicago...

My two rieslings made it through the winter and I have berry clusters but the two pinot noirs had no canes growing from buds on the cordons but have vigorous shoots growing from the trunk (not the rootstock).

I'm going to prune off the old dead cordons since they are goners and I'll train a new shoot to be the new trunk...the question is, which shoot to choose? For various reasons - mostly ignorance and then fear of killing the vine - each pinot vine had a double trunk. The double trunk started at about 6" above ground from a singular trunk. Each separate trunk was equal in diameter and health/vigor.

I now have 3-5 shoots to choose from to be the new trunk. Picture at ground level a V of vine trunk. The right prong of the V was pruned just above the bottom so there's a small stump remaining that has a good shoot growing from it...this is the lowest shoot. The left prong of the V then becomes another V and hence, my double trunk. On the left prong of the lowest V there's a shoot and also a shoot from the left and right prong of the higher V. Got it? All healthy looking with maybe one or another slightly thicker or showing more vigor as you move up the shoot.

So which to choose? The thickest...the tallest...the lowest?

Once I choose, I'll prune away everything else and then how should I train it and let it grow for the rest of this year? The vines are in their 4th year (maybe 5th) so the roots should be fairly established.

Obviously, a terrible winter could come next year and I'll be right back here so I'm thinking a shorter trunk with, ultimately, lower cordons to shield it from the wind and cold and easier to insulate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

(in reply to champagneinhand)
Post #: 507
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/4/2014 6:56:24 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		peeks - I would personally just let them all grow this year and then depending on how they grow keep a few up as cordons, and them maybe lay a few down on the ground for the winter so they are covered with snow "just in case". For now the plant needs food, and those new shoots will allow the vine to recover from the winter.

This was common in Michigan where the cordons of many vines were dead, and the vines looked like bush vines, with all the new growth coming from the base of the plant. My summer end I would bet you have enough growth on an established vine to create new cordons and have 1-2 shoots leftover.

My Cabernet Sauvignon did this. I am just letting everything grow and will sort it out at summer end.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

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Post #: 508
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/5/2014 7:32:56 PM   
champagneinhand

 

Posts: 10282
Joined: 5/30/2011
From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		Check this out! My daughter caught a snap of a black flower wasp snatching up some prey on Mrs.CiH's windshield. These are the Japanese beetle's only natural predator.



[image]http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/champagneinhand/IMG_0417_zps01cc8ca5.jpg?t=1404614078[/image]

I don't know why photo bucket isn't working now, but it a picture of a black flower wasp grabbing a grasshopper and snatching him away.

I will put the link in. Stupid photo issues.
Black Flower Wasp attack!

< Message edited by champagneinhand -- 7/5/2014 7:45:04 PM >

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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Post #: 509
RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 7/6/2014 4:43:16 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11420
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Yep, seeing more Japanese beetles now. I haven't been able to spend much time in the yard due to work, rain & mosquitos.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

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Post #: 510
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