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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/14/2012 7:02:05 PM

khmark7

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CIH, thanks for the input. Seems that from the recipes that i have read you just press the grapes for the juice, but you could always add some blended grape guts as well i suppose. Never made grape jelly, but i make a large variety of freezer jams each year. This year alone i have already made blackberry, strawberry, strawberry & blueberry and some strawberry/blackberry/blueberry jam. You only need about 1 litre of juice to make a batch of freezer jelly/jam.....so i will be experimenting.

Will try using my Vidal Blanc and other wine grapes for jelly until i learn how to make wine. Such a fun learning curve. Might be a good reason to grow Traminette.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/14/2012 7:59:11 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

CIH, thanks for the input. Seems that from the recipes that i have read you just press the grapes for the juice, but you could always add some blended grape guts as well i suppose. Never made grape jelly, but i make a large variety of freezer jams each year. This year alone i have already made blackberry, strawberry, strawberry & blueberry and some strawberry/blackberry/blueberry jam. You only need about 1 litre of juice to make a batch of freezer jelly/jam.....so i will be experimenting.

Will try using my Vidal Blanc and other wine grapes for jelly until i learn how to make wine. Such a fun learning curve. Might be a good reason to grow Traminette.

If your going with dark wines boil the juice and pressed skins, but strain the skins out after some color comes out. Blend the hot mixture of sugared up juice and blend in the gooey grape guts. It's very difficult and tedious to remove the seeds and guts, but to much skin contact will leave the jam bitter.

I was going to input that the spicy grapes like Gewurz and Traminette, remind me of Fig or Date jam, which is one of the best things to eat with caramelized walnuts or pecans, fresh fruit and good wine.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/19/2012 6:28:37 PM

khmark7

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Any updated pics CIH?

While in Traverse City i spoke with some vineyard managers about different trellis methods, pruning and what varietals did well. I even spoke to one lady in Indiana who told me of someone in the Chicago suburbs who grows Cabernet Franc well enough to make jelly from the grapes. Unfortunately Gewürtztraminer and Traminette need long growing seasons.....but it's worth a try.

With regard to growing good juice grapes. My understanding is that the better juice grapes should already have good color in the juice without much skin contact. I will be testing that theory in the near future.

Dry growing season is continuing.....grapes look good. My Niagara vine is getting rather large.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/19/2012 6:54:45 PM

champagneinhand

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I really need to go out and do more thinning. Those Frontenac grapes are still growing a bit out of control, but grapes are about 2mm around. The chards had their training a little messed up because I lost large segment do to the frost. The PG, while growing steadily are looking well. I torque my back about 3 weeks ago and am just getting back into the groove late last week. I take so photos tomorrow. Its hot as blazes with full humidity. Human life outside is at a crawl and mostly confined to early mornings or later in the evening during the mosquito hours. I will get out there though so you can have a look. BTW both Gerwurz and traminette grow here okay,so I don't think you should have a problem growing the vines in Chicagoland.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 4:46:12 AM

champagneinhand

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Okay, I went out at 6:15am, when the Sun was up and it was starting to heat up. I snapped a few photos of some fruit. The Frontenac is progressing much faster than the Chardonnay, but the Chards only take 90 or so days before they are ready for harvest. I snipped off a lot of fruit and some more leaves and vines, but training is hard this year, because of the frost damage. The PG, which is farthest from the house and gets the least sunlight is growing steadily, but those vines grow very slow. The Jap scarabs have finally come out, but aren't nearly as bad as past years, maybe because the weird frosts effected their larvae? I am still spraying every other week with Capt. Jack's dead bug, which is organically certified. The beetles always seem to prefer the Chardonnay to any other grape, which bugs the crap out of me, but the 4 vines are healthy. I'll also spray or dust the grapes this week with copper sulphate, because its so humid. I don't want any mildew or mold this time of year. Noble rot in September is allowed, but will really reduce my juice supply if it happens. Without further ado:

The flesh eating beetles have started there wrath, but very mild compared to past years.

The Frontenac Gris fruit is very abundant, but I pulled about half off. Bigger than the Chard or PG:

More Frontenac fruit as of 6/20

Good amount of Chard fruit after thinning, not as big as FG.

A bit of PG fruit, but the plants are small and slow growing.

PG will mature quick like the Chardonnay. Sorry about the bad image.

Last is the minimal Japanese beetle damage thus far.

I hope those updates show some progress. Pretty early in the morning so the light wasn't perfect, but you get the gist of the early stages of the vines. Not bad considering I thought I might get no fruit this year at all.

This was hard to get on the board. The forum is acting weird.

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Post #: 125

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 4:57:45 AM

khmark7

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Very nice CIH. I've only seen a few bottles so far.....but i'm sure more are coming along.

Since i planted the majority of my grapes this year i've not had significant growth. My two assorted Concord and my one Niagara are doing well. Still dry so i haven't sprayed anything in 2 weeks. My Reliance seedless along my somewhat shaded fenceline is still growing slowly....was hoping for more success, but this might just be that vine cause the other grape (Kay Gray) is doing very well for a first year vine. If i have time today will attempt to take some pictures myself. Hard to believe we still have 3 months of growing left around here.

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Post #: 126

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 5:10:56 AM

khmark7

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1st pic = Niagara
2nd pic = 2 Concords planted too close together
3rd pic = trellis system alongside my house and a Swenson Red and Marechal Foch planted rather close together....

< Message edited by khmark7 -- 6/20/2012 7:49:40 AM >

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 5:17:40 AM

khmark7

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Still working on the picture posting....

< Message edited by khmark7 -- 6/20/2012 5:40:42 AM >

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 7:42:01 AM

khmark7

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photobucket worked....

< Message edited by khmark7 -- 6/20/2012 7:50:14 AM >

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Post #: 129

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 7:49:50 AM

wineismylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Still working on the picture posting....

And doing a damn fine job at that.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 7:58:11 AM

khmark7

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Computers are evil creatures that should not be trusted

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 1:57:29 PM

sblong

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Thanks S1 for really taking me back! LOL! I haven't thought about muscodine "wine" in a long time. I am originally from South Carolina... (Spartanburg) it really took me back

quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

scuppernong and muscodine and people DO make "wine" from them. I'll wear a disguise and buy some for you in Sep

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 2:15:18 PM

BobMilton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Computers are evil creatures that should not be trusted

As all computers know, it's us humans who can't be trusted. Look at how often we bungle their logic!

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/20/2012 6:45:33 PM

champagneinhand

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Those grapes will be so big when things get roaring in a year or two. My grafted vines only had one inch of vine above the graft and you can see on the frontenac gris and pinot gris after 1.25 years.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/21/2012 4:10:09 AM

khmark7

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Yes, my Concords need Lebensraum (living space). If you leave too few buds then the growth will be overabundant which can lead to growth late in the season and poor winter hardiness. Hoping this doesn't happen, but my plants are fairly close together and shoot positioning/watering will be critical. I will be cane pruning those vines.....

We can place orders for next spring starting in July, so i've been planing which grapes i will add along my garage and fenceline. Looking at one each of several American varieties (Buffalo, Beta, Steuben & America) plus perhaps a Traminette and Cabernet Franc......would like to try Chambourcin if i can find room.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/23/2012 3:26:41 PM

champagneinhand

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The vines are growing so fast now, that if I don't thin every other day, or so it seems, I am going to have too much weak fruit. I took some updated pictures to show you the size the grapes are getting this year. Very small clusters last year. Not the case this year, and rain do next week.

Fruit that had to go, just a few clusters on a chair in the shade, but took several shafts down because of the massive growth.

Her is half of the line of grapes. 2 chards on either side of a FG that was bit into the ground by deer. Recovering from frost nicely.

These are some pictures of Chardonnay fruit that seems to be popping out everywhere. They are still a bit smaller than the FG fruit clusters.

More hiding Chard fruit.

Here is a close up on Chardonnay fruit. Do you know what the little brown things are? The seem to fall off almost immediately after the round berry forms.

The fruit I took pictures of cutting off ar FG and they have huge clusters. My Pinot Gris are also growing and I realized I needed more 10 gauge wire for the next level up. I didn't think they would need it this year, but I better cut 60 feet or so off the spool and get it on the posts. I am with you thinking that its weird that there is still 90+ days in the growing season left. I may go late harvest if the weather is nice.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/24/2012 7:18:23 PM

khmark7

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The hot dry conditions have slowed growth to a crawl. My Cabernet Sauvignon is doing well after a late start, but many of my vines have slowed dramatically. The Frontenac Gris and Frontenac Rouge that i planted late are doing well.....but will need this long growing season more than most. Grape clusters on my La Crosse are small and poorly formed.....and i'm deciding which ones to prune off.

Cooler weather these next few days will help. Only 0.43 inches of rain so far this month.....

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/25/2012 4:48:03 AM

khmark7

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CIH, how high off the ground is your top wire for support?? I'm thinking of placing the cordons about 2' or 2.5' off the ground for my upright growing grapes, i'm just not sure how much they grow "up".

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/25/2012 3:15:26 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

CIH, how high off the ground is your top wire for support?? I'm thinking of placing the cordons about 2' or 2.5' off the ground for my upright growing grapes, i'm just not sure how much they grow "up".

I took a split rail fence with 12 foot sections and joined them together to make 24 foot rows. I put the first wires halfway up which is about 8 inches above the ground. I also put wiring in the middle of the 2 rails and at the very top of the posts. The highest are about 5 feet high. I would have gone higher, but I didn't want my rows to start blocking the sunshine in the Fall when the sun dips on the horizon. The 2 rows closest to the house actually have vines above the highest wires and I always have to make sure they don't get out of control. This year was a little different because I lost many vines that come off the stalks, but they are almost up that high again. Low fruit is a big concern. I just plucked even more low fruit that would be in the way for mowing. I also don't want leaf hoppers to have easier access.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2012 6:39:46 PM

khmark7

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Placed a few wooden posts along my side yard for what will be a 4 post low wire cordon trellis. Will grow my Seyval Blanc, Vidal Blanc and 2 new grapes that i will plant next year.

Next week i can order vines for next years spring planting. So far i'm looking to plant....
Edelweiss (at my mother's house)
Steuben
America
Beta
Buffalo
Cabernet Franc
Traminette
Sabrevois.....maybe
Chambourcin....maybe

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2012 7:15:53 PM

champagneinhand

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If I was to have another year where I lost most of my large vines of the main shafts, I would seriously consider pulling my fence and putting in tubular steel similar to the two vines vineyard that Columbia Crest uses. Once vines get long enough, this is really a very good way to maximize sunlight for the vines and lessen harvesting issues of the fruit hanging to low. Right now I'm pretty satisfied with the state of things, but over the past few years, I have learned a lot about growing grapes in the FL area. The hard things that effect the area are late frosts, japanese beetles, high humidity causing a non noble rot, too much or too little rain and fruit that can hang too low and grab up insects or disease. My vineyard is more like an adult field study and I don't have to make a living doing this for a living. Weeds and animal life can also be an issue that you need to be alert for constantly. A big thing is getting grapes that need little leaf canopy to fruit ratio. I learned the hard way that Concords, Niagra and and other non-hermaphrodite grapes need huge leaf to grape rato. Thinning is also very important to get the best fruit.

As for your fruit in Chicagoland, I would be watering them every 3 days, by hand in the mornings. If a bunch of rain comes at once, the berries will fill so fast that many of the skins will rupture and those cluster will be lost. Better to keep them used to stretching, but careful not to over water. Stress on the vines and making sure they go deep is very important. You also need to know what sex your non-hermaphrodite grapes are. Females produce much more fruit, than the males, but are fairly useless without males in your area, but usually require a small canopy/ cluster ratio.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2012 7:29:07 PM

khmark7

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CIH, the only female flowering grapes that i have are the St. Pepin....and i'm growing a pollinating grape (La Crosse and Swenson Red) right next to it. My Concord and Niagara are advertised to be hermaphrodites (perfect flowering).

So far the only grapes that i have are on the La Crosse.....nothing special this year. I will have a few more next year, but the real crop won't begin till two years from now.

My yard (vineyard) is also an adult field study of how to grow grapes in the city. It's my version of reality TV.

How old are your vines CIH?

Did you ever plant the Reislings?

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/26/2012 8:16:00 PM

champagneinhand

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Most of my vines were planted 4 years ago from 3 year old stock. The last ones were planted last year and were 2 year old grafted vines. I never went down to get the 3 Riesling vines, but I didn't get any response from the nursery either. They weren't prepaid, and I figured that many of the real vineyards had to do massive re-plantings of their grapes especially Riesling. Weimer put in 25,000 vines this year. I would hate to see that bill. I tried getting seeds from last year to start, but will probably buy a couple of grafted Chards next year. I only have room for 2 more vines and that is pushing things, but will be okay if the PG stay fairly small. They Chard vines are easy to trains compared to any of the others. I still haven't pulled the PN vine out, but it struggles to get 6 or mor inches every year and I always assume its dead in Spring. I don't think PN like the humidity at all. In fact there are many varietals that don't do well with high levels of moisture in the air. It does give clusters a chance to get Boytris in the Fall if that is something you desire. Whites do well here. In fact other than the humidity, we have a very similar climate and soil components of Burgundy. Farther to the NW, there are chalky deposits like Chablis. I just don't like the folk in that part of the region. Monroe County area is very different in the Westside suburbs, City of Rochester, Southern area and Eastside towns. A lot is economic and cultural. To far East isn't great either with education system, gene pool and seriously increased massive snowfalls due to lake effect. 1 mile South of me gets less than half the snow we get. 15-30 miles East of us can see snow as high as their roofs all Winter long, especially near Oswego. That is why people have cottages on the East side bays of Lake Ontario, and not full time homes. You need to turn the water systems off, pull in the docks, board up the windows and nail down the doors of the boat houses. The Eastern shores of Lake Ontario get pounded with Ice waves that build up and layered with snow. You need to be very hearty folk to live out that way.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/27/2012 6:02:24 AM

khmark7

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Pinot Gris does do well up in Traverse City, which is on the water but protected from the west to east winds..... They don't get very warm up there so perhaps that helps to keep the humidity down as well. Pinot Noir grows fairly well up there, when it ripens.

Your PN only gets 6 inches of growth each year?? My Cabernet Sauvignon gets more than that and it's in a lousy location. Hopefully next year i can train at least one cordon into an area of increased sunlight.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/28/2012 10:52:30 AM

khmark7

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Ugh! This heat is horrible. Weather looks much better in Rochester. How are the vines doing vs. fungus and beetles?

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/28/2012 11:10:54 AM

champagneinhand

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The PN seem to grow about 6 inches a year and the totally disappear. It comes back every year, but never has gotten higher than 6 inches. The PG doesn't seem to be phased by the humidity. We had a very nice and warm week between 70-85 and low humidity. Today is a different story. Very Warm! High 80's to 90 and really humid. The beetles are doing their job at eating the leaves, but the Captain Jack's kills them when they eat the leaves. This means less egg laying and hopefully less beetles every year. I haven't had any fungal problems, but have the powdered copper sulfate handily if it stays to sticky. For know I just wait it out. I put some low nitrogen organic fertilizer on the rocks around the grapes and watered them. I have been watering every 3 days when we have no rain, but I don't drowned them. I do see the beetles around now and them, but my next door neighbor has a german hops plant that draws them over a bit, even though he's not watering it and letting it die. Hopefully the humidity won't be here long. Its been quite warm this year, with temps in the 90's kind of common place, where usually we just have a few weeks of low 90's.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/28/2012 6:14:45 PM

khmark7

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Despite the heat it's nice outside around dusk. A good time to step outside and prune back some unwanted shoots on the grapes. My Alpenglow is coming along nicely, so i cut the top 14 inches off and will now train the two side shoots into cordons. There is a good chance i will have my La Crosse and Swenson Red trained on the trellis later this year and hopefully the Cabernet Sauvignon. My Concord and Niagara are doing very well despite the heat and are set for fruit production next year. My Reliance is growing very very slowly.....

All others appear to need another year of growth to place them on the trellis.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/28/2012 6:58:42 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Despite the heat it's nice outside around dusk. A good time to step outside and prune back some unwanted shoots on the grapes. My Alpenglow is coming along nicely, so i cut the top 14 inches off and will now train the two side shoots into cordons. There is a good chance i will have my La Crosse and Swenson Red trained on the trellis later this year and hopefully the Cabernet Sauvignon. My Concord and Niagara are doing very well despite the heat and are set for fruit production next year. My Reliance is growing very very slowly.....

All others appear to need another year of growth to place them on the trellis.

You are like a Marine Drill Sergeant to those poor vines. I really have let mine go a little bonkers this year after losing so many parts of the individual vines. This are mostly on track, but after the harvest I will do some cut back as I found that it easier to get a thick stalk or two that way then train the vines more in the following years. It actually saved my butt with the Chards. We seem to have massive mosquitoes out right around sunset, even though it's so late. I hate those things. I have to light the cutter 3 wick candles to even be on my porch. I don't think that the planners thought about insects when they built all these drainage ponds throughout the area.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/30/2012 3:23:18 AM

khmark7

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Monthly weather totals are in. 10 degrees above average and 3 inches of rain below average for June = brown yard.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/30/2012 4:55:23 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Monthly weather totals are in. 10 degrees above average and 3 inches of rain below average for June = brown yard.

We are definitely feeling the heat. We rarely get many days above 90 but we have had weeks this. The humidity has gone down, and that's pleasant. So short of rain, makes the lakes high in water contaminants from the farms ag. Many of Lake Ontario's beaches have been closed near the Genesee River outlet. So many people hit the waters when its hot like this, but will have to settle for swimming pools or drive down to the finger lakes. I have been watering my vines. The little beetles are really teaming up on the new leaves now. Need to kill them, plus 3 warblers are stealing blueberries left and right so I'll need to watch the grapes closer.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 150