RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ?

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RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/12/2015 6:29:43 AM

dbg

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My experience and usage mirrors geppetto's. I use the Coravin for really good or older bottles I don't expect to finish. Most are finished in 1-2 weeks. I've had a few out to a month with success most of the time. I have had 1 bottle that deteriorated after a week or two. I suspect the hole in the cork just didn't seal well. I tend to leave the needle in until I pour a second glass, typically 30 minutes, rather than making two separate punctures, so maybe that's a risk factor.

I don't bother with daily drinkers or when both my wife and I are drinking. I haven't done any long-term (many months) Coravin bottles and would hesitate to do so on any precious bottles after seeing anecdotal reports of failures.

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David G

(in reply to geppetto)

Post #: 151

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/13/2015 6:57:35 PM

budh

Posts: 271
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From: Freestone CA
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Here is the response from Coravin - not surprisingly they are saying it must be my fault...

"Thank you for your message. We are sorry you’ve been having some difficulty with your wine.

We met with our founder, Greg Lambrecht, and our VP of Engineering and Product Development, Mike Rider, to review.

Our internal testing did not show a discernible difference between accessed bottles and the control bottles. Greg has not had this happen with any of his 10 years of development or with any of the beta testing done with Master Sommeliers or Wine Masters. There were some times when he had received feedback that they thought there was a change, however, upon conducting blind taste testing the Masters discovered that there was truly no difference from bottles that had been accessed weeks or months before and the ones that they accessed for the first time. And, we most recently have conducted a series of blind taste testing at intervals of 3 and 6 months with top sommeliers and producers in several locations in the US, Europe and Asia with remarkable success. The results showed not one of the 125 tasters found one glass to be oxidized or one glass to be un-servable to a guest.
We have not had many instances of issues with concern about wine spoilage – however we have had a few. What we have discovered is that in most instances these were caused either by not been priming the needle to clear of oxygen before inserting into the cork or by not been storing the wine correctly after access. In a few instances there was damage to the cork.
These tips have helped in the few situations reported:

• Always prime the needle before inserting into the cork. After placing the Coravin™ on the bottle give the trigger a short press to ensure any oxygen that may be in the needle is cleared out. Then insert the needle into the cork.

• After accessing the wine ensure that you store it horizontally to ensure the cork remains viable. Also, avoid temperature fluctuations that could affect the wine"

I have about 50 bottles left to re-sample or drink, and I will post results. But I am seriously regretting tapping a SQN, a 1990 Hermitage, an 04 Penfolds, and a few others over the last 20 months. If they are still good, I will be consuming them soon just to be safe (sounds like a good excuse for a party!).

(in reply to dbg)

Post #: 152

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/19/2015 10:44:38 PM

MindMuse

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From: Talking Rock, Georgia
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I pulled the cork on one of my longest-since-Coravin-ed wines tonight. I had initially accessed the bottle, a 2010 La Macchiole Bolgheri Rosso, on 8/6/2013 for 4 ounces, than again for about 16 ounces late October 2013. So tonight was 20.5 months since initial Coravin, and for a year and a half there was only about four or five ounces of liquid in the bottle stored sideways at cellar temp.

The results were terrific on this bottle. Fresh and pure with no signs of either reduction or oxidation. I wrote notes each time, and the final pour was the best with some nice evolution seeming to have occurred. I've had good results at several months with several year old 1er Cru Puligny-Montrachet, but have not really tapped very old expensive stuff yet. I will probably look for the opportunity to tap some and return to them before a lengthy delay, though I am still going take it a bit easy on those. But thus far I have had nothing but successful experience.

_____________________________

... she uncorked it and put it to her lips. "I know something interesting is sure to happen," she said to herself, "whenever I eat or drink anything; so I'll just see what this bottle does."
- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

(in reply to budh)

Post #: 153

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/20/2015 2:35:44 PM

RolfT

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From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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8 months since my purchase and only good results so far.

Will soon be posting my TNs on here for wines coravin'ed twice or more with at least 6 months in between.

< Message edited by RolfT -- 4/20/2015 2:37:43 PM >

(in reply to geppetto)

Post #: 154

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/30/2015 4:06:27 PM

budh

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From: Freestone CA
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Update on my experience since August 2013:
I have tapped 85 bottles total, 20 twice or more. I have consumed 50 of those bottles, 35 remain.
The only two failures were CA Pinots (05 Kosta Browne & 09 Dehlinger), both had been tapped 18 - 20 months ago. Both had turned to vinegar.
I have recently consumed or re-tapped 12 other bottles that were originally tapped 17 - 20 months ago, all of which were fine.
I've also consumed or checked 8 other bottles that had been tapped 6 - 15 months previously. All were fine.
Summary: Out of bottles going anywhere from 6 - 20 months past initial tapping, 2 out of 22 failed. I still have 9 more bottles tapped 16 - 18 months ago that I haven't yet checked.
If no other problems turn up, my failure rate will be 2.3% (2 out of 85 bottles). If you limit the population to bottles going at least one month past the initial stab (65 out of the 85 bottles), it would be about 3%. I can live with that....

(in reply to RolfT)

Post #: 155

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 5/1/2015 2:50:01 PM

Vietty

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Joined: 4/6/2013
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: budh

If no other problems turn up, my failure rate will be 2.3% (2 out of 85 bottles). If you limit the population to bottles going at least one month past the initial stab (65 out of the 85 bottles), it would be about 3%. I can live with that....

Thanks budh and everyone for the detailed reports/comments regarding the Coravin system. I was on the fence about getting this device. I've decided that it's not for me. Most of the time I don't have trouble finishing a bottle. If it's a particularly nice wine, my wife will be sure to get more than her fair share. Otherwise, I vacuum my daily drinker and keep it in the fridge to be finished within a few days. I think it would drive me crazy wondering whether a nice bottle was turning into vinegar everytime I looked into my wine fridge (and I can't live with that).

(in reply to budh)

Post #: 156

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/8/2015 6:20:42 AM

RolfT

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From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Here are two tasting notes of same bottle coravin'ed 3 times over close to six months:

2007 Wittmann Westhofener Brunnenhauschen Riesling Großes Gewächs Rheinhessen

1/23/2015 - I LIKE THIS WINE: 90 points
This is pretty magical - although not as easy drinking nor as rich as the Morstein of same vintage. I'm also missing the burnt caramel flavours that sometimes come when white wine evolves. Seems slightly more dry, and acidic with some bitterness as well.

Apparently I didn't write a note on the 2nd tap.

6/8/2015 - I LIKE THIS WINE: 91 points
3rd tap with my Coravin.
Lemon perfumed nose.
Slightly more evolved on palate(compared to last time). Seems almost off-dry with a hint of burnt caramel flavour. Perfect balance of pronounced acidity, opulent fruit and salty minerality. Very long finish and great complexity.
A very enjoyable wine.

< Message edited by RolfT -- 6/9/2015 5:38:33 AM >

(in reply to Vietty)

Post #: 157

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/8/2015 11:47:27 PM

buzzzzoff

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Hi! We first experienced Coravin in The Kitchin, Edinburgh, Scotland (top-shelf restaurant). We had a pour of a 1998 Chateau Ducru Beaucaillou. They “opened” two weeks prior with the Coravin. Our glass was from A to Z as though they had just opened the bottle. We were impressed! We subsequently tried at several other restaurants in the UK, including Sketch in London (Pierre Gagnaire and stunning), where, somewhat to our surprise, our favourite no-gadget Sommelier on the planet had become a Coravin believer.

We did not buy for home until after the bottle-bursting scare was resolved. We thought it was a bit over-blown, but we were not in a rush.

In January 2015, we "opened" six 1997 bottles from various regions of the world for our wedding anniversary. We continued having a sip each week from each bottle using Coravin for 4+ weeks. Perfect everytime. When you only have a small sip remaining in the bottle, you simply open and pour.

Last night, we "opened" a 2003 Alvaro Palacios Priorat Finca Dofí. Perfect!!! Today, we will try a 2000 Jean-Claude Boisset Echezeaux. Expectations running high!

We now are devotees. We are two people who share a bottle every evening. It is fun, every now and again, to open a second bottle. However, we have to walk our Beagle in the morning so we need to be fresh. Coravin solved that problem with a small sip (100ml+) of something special for a nice nightcap!

We do not understand the science, and we appreciate your comments regarding the aragon gas machines.

We do know, at least in our experience, it works.

By the way, we have no association with Coravin, and we paid for our machine and the refills. We just thought you might want to hear our experience.

(in reply to Jhcwine)

Post #: 158

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/10/2015 11:12:25 PM

champagneinhand

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cool. nice input.

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Post #: 159

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/11/2015 2:08:59 AM

buzzzzoff

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Thanks!

(in reply to champagneinhand)

Post #: 160

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/16/2015 6:28:30 PM

buzzzzoff

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We had a second sip of the 2003 Alvaro Palacio Finca Dofi via Coravin the other night. Seven days later and still outstanding! A sip each week for 4+ weeks is the goal!!!

(in reply to buzzzzoff)

Post #: 161

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/24/2015 5:13:31 AM

RolfT

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Two "taps" of German riesling 9 months apart.

Wine: "Gut Hermannsberg GG 2012 - Hermannsberg"

9/12/2014 - I LIKE THIS WINE: (Edit) 88 Points
Very nice already! Both nose and palate are generous, compared to the Kupfergrubbe GG and Basteii GG.

However, I'm not a huge fan of this, at the moment. Give it time.

6/11/2015 - I LIKE THIS WINE: (Edit) 87 Points
2nd tap with Coravin (1st was 9 months ago).

Beautiful clear, greenish golden color.

Nose is not very aromatic. Its has a faint yeasty character, like brown bread. Also a hint of herbs and lemon.

Palate is very rich and heavy. Not very riesling, more like a white Burgundy.

With some air it suddenly blossoms, especially on the palate.

< Message edited by RolfT -- 6/24/2015 5:16:07 AM >

(in reply to buzzzzoff)

Post #: 162

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/24/2015 6:48:01 PM

pdemaio

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I've found cleaning the coravin with water and than gas between punctures is super important. Otherwise the wine oxidizes... Since I've been rigorous with this, I haven't seen a failure, but I have used a lot more gas, which ups the quality of the bottles I think are worth preserving :-/

-PDQ

(in reply to RolfT)

Post #: 163

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/24/2015 8:21:51 PM

champagneinhand

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pdemaio

I've found cleaning the coravin with water and than gas between punctures is super important. Otherwise the wine oxidizes... Since I've been rigorous with this, I haven't seen a failure, but I have used a lot more gas, which ups the quality of the bottles I think are worth preserving :-/

-PDQ

Like with all wine making equipment cleanliness is the best practice with any of the hardware. I would problem rinse with distilled water oe some with a touch of wine sulfur that has been dissolved. I need to buy one of these this Fall.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

(in reply to pdemaio)

Post #: 164

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 6/25/2015 5:14:54 AM

buzzzzoff

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Agree with PDQ and Champagneinhand. Cleaning with distilled water important. Go for it, Champagneinhand! Only problem is you cannot use on champagne :-)

(in reply to champagneinhand)

Post #: 165

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2015 5:05:02 AM

Fine Wine Profession

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Coravin is great but gas costs are high. Use recognized cartridges from other wine system manufacturers and you can drink an array of cheaper wines as well as expensive ones - but you need to remove the black cap, so I made this tool, took about 20 mins and works great:https://instagram.com/p/6UpiSjv8Wq/ In action, easily removed with firm hand pressure alonehttps://instagram.com/p/6Upm-7v8Wx/

(in reply to Jhcwine)

Post #: 166

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2015 5:06:13 PM

ckinv368

Posts: 985
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From: Dallas, TX
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I'm glad to see this works so well after all of the user testing that has gone on by folks on this board!

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After the two bottles of claret, we had three bottles of Krug . . . one for love, one for country, and one for symmetry. -- A.J. Liebling

When in doubt, sip your dessert.

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Post #: 167

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2015 11:33:26 PM

ob2s

Posts: 1689
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I just removed a cap with pliers after soaking in isopropyl alcohol. I have used this same cap on some other cheaper cartridge about 10 cartridges so far.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fine Wine Profession

Coravin is great but gas costs are high. Use recognized cartridges from other wine system manufacturers and you can drink an array of cheaper wines as well as expensive ones - but you need to remove the black cap, so I made this tool, took about 20 mins and works great:https://instagram.com/p/6UpiSjv8Wq/ In action, easily removed with firm hand pressure alonehttps://instagram.com/p/6Upm-7v8Wx/

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German Wine ? see GermanWines.us | water nourishes the body, wine nourishes the soul

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Post #: 168

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 8/13/2015 11:52:25 PM

ob2s

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I just opened a 2007 Alexander Valley Cab that I cv'ed a glass from on 6 Aug 2013. I also opened this same wine from another bottle at the same time. Both bottles were kept side by side for 2 years, on their sides, 60 degrees. The cv cork was saturated to the 3/4 mark, the non cv was about a 1/3. I used priming on this cv bottle and was my first puncture. The cv wine seemed way more aromatic in the glass straight off. It almost seemed port like. Still very enjoyable but clearly closer to the end than I would have expected. The non cv bottle drank just like the previous 6 bottles I had in the last 2 years, classic ca cab qualities with much life left. Day 2 the cv bottle needed to be finished, whereas the non cv could have gone another day. I never intended to use the cv to pierce through my stash willy nilly. 2 years is too long, in fact if I am not planning to drink a wine for more than a year, then I won't cv it. i've had about a 90% success rate, much higher for under 3 months. A friend of mine has taken her cv and hacked it to take an argon canister the size of a scuba tank. i have noticed i am using it less, mainly because I have so many bottles nowhere near ready to drink and a number non cork enclosures.

< Message edited by ob2s -- 8/13/2015 11:53:52 PM >

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German Wine ? see GermanWines.us | water nourishes the body, wine nourishes the soul

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Post #: 169

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/5/2016 5:48:55 AM

konraddelipair

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We tested Coravin'ed wines in laboratory, as a side project few months ago. Looking at the results Coravin seems to give you a month to finish a bottle, and that's great.

Detailed report here: http://www.slideshare.net/KonradJagodzinskiPMP/coravin-does-it-preserve-your-wine

(in reply to ob2s)

Post #: 170

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/10/2016 9:03:07 AM

Sourdough

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From: Austin, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: konraddelipair

We tested Coravin'ed wines in laboratory, as a side project few months ago. Looking at the results Coravin seems to give you a month to finish a bottle, and that's great.

Detailed report here: http://www.slideshare.net/KonradJagodzinskiPMP/coravin-does-it-preserve-your-wine

Your blog does not provide adequate information on your use of the Coravin. Did you purge the needle immediately before plunging it into the cork? If not you injected oxygen in the needle when you pressured the bottle. Not purging is known to lead to (micro) oxidation so if you did not purge your results are to be expected. Proper technique is to put the needle at the cork, give a brief purge and then plunge the needle in. Another good practice involves using a paper towel to draw the wine from the needle after using the Coravin to avoid cross contaminating wine. (Simply touch the needle to a paper towel. Don't let the wine dry in the needle or you still get cross contamination and can make white wines lovely roses.)

(in reply to konraddelipair)

Post #: 171

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/11/2016 12:47:48 AM

konraddelipair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sourdough

Did you purge the needle immediately before plunging it into the cork? If not you injected oxygen in the needle when you pressured the bottle. Not purging is known to lead to (micro) oxidation so if you did not purge your results are to be expected. Proper technique is to put the needle at the cork, give a brief purge and then plunge the needle in.

Yes we did purge the needle before plunging into the cork. In my opinion Coravin is a very well thought equipment, and delivers expected (within reason) results. Making the process more airtight would require much bigger package, like Enomatic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sourdough
Another good practice involves using a paper towel to draw the wine from the needle after using the Coravin to avoid cross contaminating wine. (Simply touch the needle to a paper towel. Don't let the wine dry in the needle or you still get cross contamination and can make white wines lovely roses.)

We washed and dried the needle after each injection. We were very careful not to cross contaminate the samples for our analysis.

One more piece of information. Out of 120 wines we used in our main analysis only one showed significant oxidation aromas, when we did olfactory analysis, that is with our noses, after a month and a half from first injection.

And as you can see in our report, although in our opinion using Coravin is not neutral to wine, it enhances most of wine aromas, so the influence is positive.

(in reply to Sourdough)

Post #: 172

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 4/11/2016 11:22:49 AM

Sourdough

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From: Austin, Texas
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Thanks for the comments!

(in reply to konraddelipair)

Post #: 173

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/26/2016 3:46:04 PM

khmark7

Posts: 11422
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From: Chicago suburbs
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Silly question...

Have people used this system on their 375 ml Sauterne bottles with success. I would imagine you NEED to wash the needle out after each access. Also, how long do people typically keep the needle inserted into the bottle. Is it OK to keep the needle inserted and the unit attached for up to a week?

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"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to Sourdough)

Post #: 174

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/26/2016 4:26:03 PM

mclancy10006

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From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Silly question...

Have people used this system on their 375 ml Sauterne bottles with success. I would imagine you NEED to wash the needle out after each access. Also, how long do people typically keep the needle inserted into the bottle. Is it OK to keep the needle inserted and the unit attached for up to a week?

I have used it on 375 ml Sauternes once it worked fine, but I take the needle out right after use.

-M

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 175

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/26/2016 7:46:26 PM

Sourdough

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From: Austin, Texas
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Washing the needle does not seem necessary but touching a paper towel to the needle to draw off remaining liquid is smart and avoid drawing glasses of Chardonnzy that are pink hued (from red wine left in the needle)

(in reply to mclancy10006)

Post #: 176

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/26/2016 10:21:26 PM

Hollowine

Posts: 7251
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From: Hood River, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Silly question...

Have people used this system on their 375 ml Sauterne bottles with success. I would imagine you NEED to wash the needle out after each access. Also, how long do people typically keep the needle inserted into the bottle. Is it OK to keep the needle inserted and the unit attached for up to a week?

Karl,

I've tapped off of 375 Sauternes several times, I usually have one in the fridge at any time.

I've left the coravin in the cork a day or two, but not done a week. Not sure it would hurt anything, I'm usually pulling mine due to wanting to get into another bottle.

I have a thread this past year about cleaning the needle, I disagree that it isn't necessary. I probably go to the nth degree, but I keep an old wine bottle that I fill with Everclear, then recork and use as my wash fluid after each time I tap a wine. A quick rinse with grain alcohol and so far I haven't seen some of the bottle flaws I'd previously experienced, time will tell.

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 177

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/26/2016 10:31:37 PM

pclin

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So far so good, I have used 6 gas refills this year without any issue but I have not kept any bottle more than 6 months after the first Coravin.

I discovered another good use for it recently. As I was having issue pulling out cork from an old bottle of Burgundy, I just used Coravin to pump out every drop without pulling the cork! It worked like a charm.

< Message edited by pclin -- 12/26/2016 10:35:50 PM >

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Post #: 178

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/27/2016 4:37:58 AM

khmark7

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From: Chicago suburbs
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Scott - looks like i might have to experiment, in the name of science of course. Ideally i would like to drink a 375 ml of Sauternes over a week, without having to stab the cork multiple times if i don't need to.

I like the Everclear idea, but wouldn't water work just fine??

_____________________________

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Post #: 179

RE: Coravin - Does it Truly Work ? - 12/27/2016 12:25:26 PM

Sourdough

Posts: 1883
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From: Austin, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Scott - looks like i might have to experiment, in the name of science of course. Ideally i would like to drink a 375 ml of Sauternes over a week, without having to stab the cork multiple times if i don't need to.

I like the Everclear idea, but wouldn't water work just fine??

Relatively low risk. Argon is heavier than air so it shouldn't fly out of the bottle at a high rate. Good experiment

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 180

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