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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/10/2014 12:58:46 PM

champagneinhand

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I went and pruned the vines. I did not lose one vine!!!!! The small one are barely clinging to life with small stubs, but green and leaking now, as with all the other I cut back. I see how the Deer have ravaged my apple trees, so I am buying a wrist rocket and some marbles. they repellent doesn't work. Same goes for the freaking voles. Those micro moles have my side yard looking like it has heroin track marks under my air conditioner, with gravel from under the base all over the place. The deer also mucked up the grass near the heater out ducts. I wish the vented through my roof. Same goes for my dryer vents.

I have serious snow mold damage to my lawn in back and the sides. The front will be okay but will need a power rake, thatch. I will also need an aeration. Thats about $250 for this micro yard i have that isn't filled with grape vines. Oh yeah, now that the tundra perm-frost is gone the squirrels are busy digging up all the acorns they buried. I guess they must be good fermented. I think I am going to take a chain saw to the bramble area behind my house because the critters live in the small area and its always been a little sanctuary for nature and the Spring nursery for the birds, but most neighbors have cut their parts out and put mulch and evergreen. Now it my wheelchair bound next-door neighbor and I who still have any bramble left.The pretty song birds and interesting birds have moved over more into the bird sanctuary and I get the thieving warblers, the sparrows, wren and other birds that feed on saw grass seeds and then spread them all over.

I still can't believe my vines survived. I was actually looking forward to buying some Chenin Blanc vines to plant. After last year, the Pinot Gris vines have me uber impressed with their endurance. They take 2 years to get with the production consistently or longer, but sturdy. My older chard came through just as well as the Frontenac Gris. I would pull those, but I really don't know where i'll put my Chenin/Chard/PG/FG blended (I call it backyard blanc), that needs to be bottled from last year. 6 gallons, I thought would be lame high sugar, high acid and just for cooking. However, it tastes better and better each time I taste it, and now that it has been degassed and is almost clear without filtering, fermentation just took 6 months and now I need to bottle it. I also have my darker Riesling from last year that is pretty good as well, but 3 gallons of that that needs to be bottled. that will be gifted away and sweetened up a bit more too, but may have some for cooking.

That's almost 4 cases plus extra that I have no from for. I'll just have to buy Chenin from Vouvray. argh, I think I will donate most grapes to neighbors or just drink the juice or make jelly.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/10/2014 5:26:12 PM

khmark7

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Dave - Not to be the harbinger of dark grapevine thoughts, but did you cut open the buds to assess the damage? My vines are fine here as well, but the buds were heavily damaged. Hopefully yours are better off with the slightly less severe temps.

Around here Deer bow hunting is legal year round. Just a thought.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/10/2014 5:29:39 PM

khmark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lafeeverted

I have a couple very old concord vines and have started attacking them as well. I did some superficial pruning in years past but they get out of control. I am wondering how much fruit is reasonable for one vine?

An established Concord can easily produce 20 lbs of fruit. Think of it this way. If each cluster is between 0.25-0.5 lbs then you want to keep around 40-50 fruitful buds.
Keeping in mind that Concords like to use last years buds, and typically the most fruitful are buds 3-6 on each strong cane from last year.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/10/2014 6:48:23 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Dave - Not to be the harbinger of dark grapevine thoughts, but did you cut open the buds to assess the damage? My vines are fine here as well, but the buds were heavily damaged. Hopefully yours are better off with the slightly less severe temps.

Around here Deer bow hunting is legal year round. Just a thought.

The buds are small but fuzzy looking and seem to be fine. On the Concord, my BIL has some massive vines that are seriously out of control. I need to help him hack them down. Really you can't see the chain fence behind his house and they climb trees and power lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/11/2014 5:00:36 AM

lafeeverted

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Thanks for the info on the concords. I guess I can leave more on next year. These are over 50 years old. Un fortunately one is completely shaded by alarge evergreen, I believe it has a large cordon that has grown into the open space. It looks like some of the shoots have grown undrground and then back above into another section of vine. It is all so old , hard to tell what is going on.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/12/2014 4:13:31 AM

khmark7

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The Concords I was working on had vines growing into the ground as well, and had grow behind trees that were much younger than the vines themselves. If it was me I would have cut down the smaller evergreen trees, but it's not my yard. Concords don't like -20F, so there was a lot of damage on the ones I pruned, and last years dense mangled canopy was ripe with anthracnose, so ideally I would be spraying them with copper before bud break.

Today they are expecting temps mid 70's before a Sunday cold front moves in a drops temps into the 20's overnight with rain/snow for a few days. By mid week we should be in a good spot and I would not be surprised if we have bud break within the next 2 weeks. Still looking for bud swell on my early budding varieties (Marechal Foch & Frontenac)

Expecting a delivery of new vines & fruit trees next week. So planting season is almost here...

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/12/2014 4:17:03 AM

lafeeverted

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lol, this tree is in the neighbors yard as well.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/12/2014 2:35:45 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

The Concords I was working on had vines growing into the ground as well, and had grow behind trees that were much younger than the vines themselves. If it was me I would have cut down the smaller evergreen trees, but it's not my yard. Concords don't like -20F, so there was a lot of damage on the ones I pruned, and last years dense mangled canopy was ripe with anthracnose, so ideally I would be spraying them with copper before bud break.

Today they are expecting temps mid 70's before a Sunday cold front moves in a drops temps into the 20's overnight with rain/snow for a few days. By mid week we should be in a good spot and I would not be surprised if we have bud break within the next 2 weeks. Still looking for bud swell on my early budding varieties (Marechal Foch & Frontenac)

Expecting a delivery of new vines & fruit trees next week. So planting season is almost here...

I saw that the same cold front is coming here with 3 nights to be well below freezing. I am just hoping the Lake provides some balance, but considering Ice is still melting in the lakes, I am thinking serious damage from frost.

This sucks. I need to try and source some Chenin Vines. My 2 little PG that barely survived wirer will surely die. I know I can tarp and run hot bricks for 3 nights. I have friends with the blowing propane heaters, but I don't think that will have much impact either. If the ground water wasn't so damned cold I would consider keeping sprinklers on them all night, but finally got the hot tub, fixed and filled, and the hose water was 1C as the tub started. Not going to help to have that raining on the buds.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/12/2014 6:41:50 PM

khmark7

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Dave - Why do you think frost at this time will hurt the vines? Bud break isn't for several weeks. Just because sap is flowing doesn't mean anything, unless the temps go below 10F.

We have only a few things growing around here, despite the week of warm temps. My Gooseberry has small leaves, and you can see the small rouge sunflowers growing in the garden. Nothing much to worry about.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/12/2014 8:39:01 PM

champagneinhand

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This happened 2 years after I planted my first vines. I lost all but 4, that I had originally had. The sap is good when in the ground, it is bad when in the top of your vines and its a hard frost. Really the first buds are all I really care about so that my vines don't need total replacement. My littlest 2 have about 1 inch of live growth above the grafts. That's while I think they are toast. I have had late frosts take out so many vines over the last 6 years. I only have 4 original vines I planted from the very beginning, the deep rooted Chardonnay.

I really worked my but off 2 years ago just to keep them. I did lose 2 apple trees that year, because I just covered them in plastic, but it wasn't enough.Their buds never matured and the wood became hard and dead. Some thought the apple trees would be okay in the next season but one snapped at the bottom during wind and it was clear it was stick-like with no life ever going through the trunk again. Its a sad story of a lot of younger vines in the area. That's why we have so many nurseries of size selling grafted vines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/13/2014 3:35:30 AM

khmark7

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They are expecting temps overnight the next two days to dip into the mid or upper 20's. Not overly cold, and I don't expect any additional damage on top of what the winter already delivered. Despite the sap flow on some varieties, my early budding varieties still have no bud swell. Once that happens the buds become more susceptible to damage if the temps drop far into the 20's.

The fruit buds from last year should have been matured in the fall, basically so they survive the winter.

I am curious if they will delay shipping me my new vines from NY with this cold front moving in tonight. Had planned ahead and taken a few days off from work just so I could plant everything.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/13/2014 9:13:55 AM

khmark7

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Update: Having bud swell in my early budding varieties, so now hopeful that this cold front doesn't drop any sub 20 F temps.

Expect bud break maybe as early as next weekend on some varieties, much earlier than I would have expected but this last week was warm and moved everything forward a week or two.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/16/2014 2:18:33 PM

khmark7

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Received my vines from the nursery today and was able to find time to plant everything, despite being called into work for a few hours this morning. Planting really takes time....

Planted 10 cold weather style vines around the house, plus an experimental Cabernet Franc for a total of 11. Planted 2 Merlot vines in 12-14 inch pots to see if they will grow and an additional vine at my mother's farm. Also planted some more Currant bushes. That's a lot of digging....

I will be planting a few more fruit trees and a fig tree (in a large pot) this spring, then it's all about managing the yard.

Found out the new neighbors are big into gardening and were asking lots of questions about my vines and fruit trees.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/17/2014 3:50:33 AM

lafeeverted

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I had a fig tree growing in a large pot that became too much of a pain to mive indoors over the winter. I don't think it survived this year. Noticed a little bud swell as well on my vines. we had a freeze warning two nights ago and a watch last night. Hoping all is well. I didn't notice any major damage to the roses that were growing so that is promising.

< Message edited by lafeeverted -- 4/17/2014 3:53:16 AM >

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/23/2014 5:30:38 PM

khmark7

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Gentlemen; start your engines...

We have what appears to be initial bud break. Some of the buds closest to the ground have opened, and the buds up top are in their final stages before obvious leaf structure is visible.
Early budding varietals such as Beta, Marechal Foch, Somerset & Frontenac are leading the way. This is 5 days earlier than last year. Bud break in 2012 was in the middle of March....which was the warmest spring ever recorded in Chicago. Odd that the winter of 2013-2014 was probably the coldest winter ever recorded in Chicago...

Have just over 45 vines growing in two locations again this year representing over 30 varietals. 3 x Frontenac Rouge & 2 x Frontenac Gris are the most represented. Our brutal winter caused some serious damage to a few vines, but most are budding just fine. Late budding varietals such as Cabernet Sauvignon & Vidal Blanc are making me nervous.

How goes it out east?

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/23/2014 8:33:54 PM

champagneinhand

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Too cold right now. I'll check the vines tomorrow. Lows in the 30's for the next 7 days.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/24/2014 5:55:42 AM

lafeeverted

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Not much to report here. Windy and cooler the last couple days.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/24/2014 3:57:33 PM

khmark7

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Does anyone count the number of buds that they keep on each plant, or some other method? I always find it such a challenge to look at a vine with buds and decide which to keep and which to knock off before they start growing, often because there are just so many on certain vines. Hoping that vine vigor will be reasonable with extra buds being left on the vine and more fruit to balance growth.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/24/2014 6:22:45 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Does anyone count the number of buds that they keep on each plant, or some other method? I always find it such a challenge to look at a vine with buds and decide which to keep and which to knock off before they start growing, often because there are just so many on certain vines. Hoping that vine vigor will be reasonable with extra buds being left on the vine and more fruit to balance growth.

I actually will limit in the beginning to about 20, but I let shoots come as the develop, as I can always cut them off. If the are really in a bad spot, I will pluck them. Also on the buds, I don't have long thumbnails so I rub them off, but never cut them off. This year I will really limit the number of clusters, because there was such little juice in the grapes all over the Finger Lakes. I will actually water the grapes if necessary this year too. I know my roots are deep enough, but I want juice to go with the acids.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/25/2014 5:52:05 PM

khmark7

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Bud break this year is like slow motion. Start growing already!

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 4/25/2014 7:13:24 PM

champagneinhand

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Bud break isn't happening as cold weather has everything in a suspended animation going on.

Just aerated and thatched the lawn. That dang mole is back, so I went planting tainted pellets smelling of peanut butter. Gotta watch out for the aged dog, even though they were put in the holes.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/1/2014 10:28:00 PM

peeks13

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quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

Bud break isn't happening as cold weather has everything in a suspended animation going on.

Just aerated and thatched the lawn. That dang mole is back, so I went planting tainted pellets smelling of peanut butter. Gotta watch out for the aged dog, even though they were put in the holes.

I have the same question as May 2 approaches...does anyone see bud break on the horizon? Sap is flowing off the ends but do not see any real bud swelling.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/1/2014 11:43:11 PM

champagneinhand

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It should happen tomorrow I would think. Solid rains for a few days and sun today and in the 60's. The raspberries vines are full f tiny leaves, so I'm expecting bud swell and then some popping very soon.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/2/2014 4:30:19 AM

khmark7

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Not widespread bud break at my house, but the vines closest to my house have buds about an inch long, and I have pinched off a few suckers close to the ground that were growing. Otherwise these cold temps over the last week has kept everything in bud swell. After this weekend they are predicting temps in the 60's and 70's and that should speed along everything, including the trees due to the amount of rain we have received lately. A very prolonged process this year.

My vinifera vines are not showing much bud swell, but I also expect some heavy damage due to our extreme temps over the winter. Patiently waiting for some tertiary buds to grow. Sap is flowing however.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/2/2014 8:18:53 AM

lafeeverted

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Very uneven bud swell here. I have a picture from last year of May 8, everything was covered with growing shoots. Will be interesting to see if the vines catch up to that point this year.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/2/2014 6:23:50 PM

khmark7

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After this weekend they are predicting temps as warm as 80F by mid week. Will certainly help the vegetation. Last year I had flowering at the end of May and early June. Curious if we catch up to that.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/2/2014 6:56:28 PM

champagneinhand

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It funny that the tiny blueberry bushes have pushed shoots but they are closer to the hot tub across the patio. Still no bud break as it was cool today. Unusual weather. I am leaning to think we aren't going to break 90 this year. A cool one indeed.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/2/2014 7:50:11 PM

lafeeverted

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Blueberries are going strong as are the blackraspberries. I lost 95% of my raspberries over the winter, only a sinlge shoot is putting out leaves now. I am hoping that the plants will put out a full growth of new wood later in the season.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/3/2014 4:29:27 AM

khmark7

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Raspberries are very cold hardy and I would expect they will recover. My blackberries took a beating from the winter, but several shoots are growing from the mulch floor. Will be curious to see how much room they need as I haven't grown blackberries since I was a kid. Fruit trees have tiny leaves but still no blooms. Looking out my window I can see that my Frontenac Gris closest to my house has shoots about 1-2 inches long, easily the furthest out of any of my 40+ vines. Primary buds easily survived on that vine, you can tell as the primary buds angle away from the center of the vine, secondary shoots are perpendicular and tertiary shoots angle towards the center of the vine.

This morning the sun is out. 1st time since early in the week. Nice.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/3/2014 8:02:39 AM

lafeeverted

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I did not know that about the shoot angle, thanks.

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